Smaller vs larger instrument

[insert-witty-username]

The question is basically in the title: how did it feel to switch from a smaller to a larger instrument or vice versa, if you ever made such a move.
I do know that larger instruments are larger, so have more notes, and that smaller instruments are smaller, so tend to be lighter. I'd be more interested in aspects such as physical fit of the instrument or larger bellows (more air volume) that could make the larger instrument easier to handle despite the extra weight (or not).

 

[petch]

I have limited experience but I find bigger ones easier to play. You can go much longer without needing to change bellows direction and can rest the accordion on your lap and let gravity do half the work. The trade off is they're much less convenient to travel with and it takes more effort to pick up etc.!

 

[McSqueeze]

In my 60 years of playing I've had countless accordions through my hands, ranging from the very small 60 bass, 2 voice Brandoni in my members photo through to 140 bass, 5 voice instruments, with cassotto. I currently have 2, 3, 4 and 5 reeded accordions and enjoy playing all of them but I've had many many accordions that I didn't like for a variety of reasons. The little Brandoni is almost half the size and less than half the weight of my biggest accordion. I guess the bottom line is that all players are different and all accordions are different, even seemingly identical models, so it's a matter of finding an instrument that suits you and your situation.

 

[Dingo40]

IWU,
"...I do know that larger instruments are larger, so have more notes, and that smaller instruments are smaller, so tend to be lighter..."
By smaller, do you mean full sized keys, just fewer of them or the same number of keys but each key is smaller?
There are both kinds!

 

[jozz]

mainly dependent on what I'm doing with it at that period

my journey:
80 (as a small kid) - 120 (played seated for 10 years) - 72 - 80 - 32 (mostly standing)

In general I find the larger ones easier to play, when seated. When standing it becomes different story. The 32 is a two-octave piano with no weight on the bass side. It's main function is to get me on my bike inside a venue without sweat, and play chords and solo's on piano keyboard. If I need to play bass I switch to either the 80 (busker) or 72 depending on which genre/band I'm in. The 80 is played seated mostly and gives my that easy bellows, and I find myself using bigger chords with more air on the right hand than with a smaller bellows. I don't see myself switch back to 120, but I guess I could replace the 80 for 96 one day.

 

[vivdunstan]

I've got perhaps an unusual perspective here, because my idea of a large versus small instrument will differ from many others. I'm female, and not very tall. And a 72 bass piano accordion has always been a natural fit for me and as large as I wanted to go. I stuck my foot down at age 9 in 1981, refusing to go higher. So switched then from 48 bass to 72 bass. And that 72 bass I got then is still my main instrument. I have to play it sitting down, but find it fits me well.

More recently I got a smaller second accordion, a 48 bass piano accordion. This was because I have a progressive neurological disease, since 1994, and am now weaker. I can still get the small box out without help. The big one needs help. I took care to pick a 48 bass with the same size keys - especially on the treble side - as my 72 bass. Not reduced or compact or "ladies" keys. This means that I find switching between the two really easy in terms of the keys.

The biggest difference with working with the smaller box is I have to make more compromises re what notes I can - or more seriously can't - play. Eg its bass side only goes up to E, so no natural B or F# chords as on my 72 bass. I can do fudges, but I tend to find that I'm more likely to change tunes. Also on the treble side I am missing a few notes. Sometimes I will just miss out some low harmonies, or shift things up or down an octave. Or not play that tune.

For people who favour much larger instruments 72 bass is also a compromise. As well as a slightly reduced treble side you don't have the extra duplicate bass rows. So while you have all the chords there can occasionally be jumping from one end to the other. This is a compromise I decided I was happy with aged 9 buying my new box. I still am. Even smaller boxes have far more compromises.

I have a new 60 bass French CBA box on order. That is going to give me effectively the same number of bass chords as the 72 bass piano accordion. And due to the more compact CBA treble side I'll get all the notes I'm used to there from my 72 bass rather than my 48 bass. But in a more compact box. So that can be another option, albeit a bigger shift. I have never played the CBA before. The challenge I'm facing is immense! But I am happily up for it.

 

[debra]

Good fit is what is most important. When I play a smaller accordion I put a block of wood under my left foot to raise my leg and thus also the accordion.

 

[wayne]

The question is basically in the title: how did it feel to switch from a smaller to a larger instrument or vice versa, if you ever made such a move.
I do know that larger instruments are larger, so have more notes, and that smaller instruments are smaller, so tend to be lighter. I'd be more interested in aspects such as physical fit of the instrument or larger bellows (more air volume) that could make the larger instrument easier to handle despite the extra weight (or not).

I play as a hobby. Lately I've started going for smaller accordions, but I don't play out much anymore. I've also started to play a 5 row chromatic, a smaller one, I like it a lot for a bunch of reasons, but now I am considering getting a decent smaller piano accordion again since my first instrument was a (crappy) small used accordion. This time, hopefully it won't be a crappy one.

 

[Tom]

I have to play a lighter, 72 bass when I stand and play for any length of time. I don't miss the basses or keys since I play mostly g/c/f anyway. Compensating for reduced air is not a big deal, just more bellows changes.

What I miss is the number of treble reeds. Going from 4 to 3. Or maybe my full sized has better reeds, I don't know. For me the sweet spot would be 34/72 with 4/5 reeds.

 

[lordzedd]

I have to play a lighter, 72 bass when I stand and play for any length of time. I don't miss the basses or keys since I play mostly g/c/f anyway. Compensating for reduced air is not a big deal, just more bellows changes.

What I miss is the number of treble reeds. Going from 4 to 3. Or maybe my full sized has better reeds, I don't know. For me the sweet spot would be 34/72 with 4/5 reeds.

How much does the addition of an extra treble or bass reed block on an otherwise equally sized instrument change the weight? Say if you were comparing a 41/96 with 2 treble and 4 bass vs 3 treble and 4 bass?

 

[Tom]

How much does the addition of an extra treble or bass reed block on an otherwise equally sized instrument change the weight? Say if you were comparing a 41/96 with 2 treble and 4 bass vs 3 treble and 4 bass?

Good question but I don't know, maybe Paul or Ventura could give an estimate. You've got an extra 41 (or 12) reed sets, L, M, or H, probably on a separate block, plus some slider/switch addition. Lots of variables. What's your average reed block weigh?

 

[EMan]

I've always played standing, except in the last 1/2 doz yrs ( now on a raised saddle) and the weight has never bothered my of any accordion that I've owned. About 6 yrs ago, I purchased a really nice Borsini 5/5 that had just absolute great sound. Now I'm not a weight lifter, but the weight of that instrument did not bother me; ironically what bothered me was the size of the accordion ( front to back dimension). I found with the added dimension (to accommodate the addn'l reeds), my left hand had to reach through the bass strap further and THAT bothered my arm. So I sold it last year and bought a new Bugari 288 Gold(4/5). Problem solved. It was never about the weight tho.

 

[SteveBox]

As others have said, it is all a matter of personal preference, and also what type of music you play. Do you need the range of a larger instrument? My four-decade journey with the accordion has been to progressively smaller instruments.

Personally, I see no point to having a bigger instrument than is necessary for the styles of music one plays. Some genres may require a full-sized accordion, but I play mostly folk music. I started out with full size 4 reed piano accordions, but after several years decided that, in my opinion, they were overkill and looked a little ridiculous in a folk band. I am not being critical of many excellent folk musicians who play these instruments, just saying for me it made no sense to carry around that size and weight. I then moved to a 3 reed/72 bass PA, and eventually switched to a 3 reed/4 row/60-bass LMM CBA. I still have it, but don't use it much anymore.

I now play a very compact, 2 reed/3 row MM CBA with a Darwin 24-bass system (fully chromatic, but only open chords). It is less than 10 lbs. I like it a lot, and it makes my other medium-sized CBA seem like a monster. I do miss having the sound options of an LMM instrument, but I have learned to be satisfied with the one light musette sound. I have found it to be easier to play and louder than my larger CBA, and I think the open chord bass sounds better in a folk music setting.

Substituting a Darwin bass for a Stradella can reduce the size and weight, but I don't think this is currently offered on small piano accordions. If you are a folk musician who plays the PA, look up some YouTube videos of Scottish accordionist Sandy Brechin. He is fantastic playing a small Hohner 48-bass "student" PA.

 

[insert-witty-username]

By smaller, do you mean full sized keys, just fewer of them or the same number of keys but each key is smaller?
There are both kinds!

I meant "larger" as in more keys (on the treble side actually), "smaller" as in fewer, should have said it more clearly right away.

 

[pentaprism]

The shape is also important.

I have two "full-sized" accordions: a Victoria (LMMM, 96 bass buttons) and a Fisitalia (LMMH, 120 bass buttons) . I think they are similar in terms of weight and of volume. The Victoria is thick and short while the Fisitalia is thin and tall (in playing position).

I prefer the voices of the Victoria, but I find the Fisitalia is "easier" to play thus I play it more. The Victoria's thickness makes it too clumsy for me to control.

I also have a small Cavagnolo (LM, 80 bass buttons) - similar to model Junior. I like its voice and its light weight. But it runs out of breath pretty easy, and thus I don't play it much,

 

[SteveBox]

I have read more than one comment about smaller accordions running out of air too easily. I don't find this to the case with my small Darwin CBA at all, and it is quite small. Of course, it could depend on how many reeds per note you are playing, how you play the accordion, and how subconsciously you reverse the bellows and don't really think about it. One reason for running out of breath would be a leaky accordion. I opened up my larger CBA once, only to discover that many of the valves (aka leathers) had fallen off of the bass reeds. Once I glued them back on, there was a noticeable improvement in how much squeezing was required.

 

[davidplaysaccordion]

I Cosme from piano so wanted a full size 120 bass 41 key because I could not imagine playing without every possible note available plus they keyboard sizing was the same as piano O easier to transition.
I only play my full size box sitting though, just to heavy to be fun while standing, plus im getting old.
I now play a Roland 4x with ‘only’ 37 keys but 120 bass which is a light lighter and easier to play and I don’t miss the extra notes on the right.
I also have a small ladies size 80 bass 34 key box which is fun but very hard to play (too small) plus it takes a LOT of pumping to play so it’s quite tiring.
Also need to consider number of reed sets etc in the box, more reeds equals more weight so a small fully kitted out box could be heavier than a basic full size box.

 

[Harrytulipan]

I have limited experience but I find bigger ones easier to play. You can go much longer without needing to change bellows direction and can rest the accordion on your lap and let gravity do half the work. The trade off is they're much less convenient to travel with and it takes more effort to pick up etc.!

That is my experience as well.
I guess bigger or heavier accordions are less comfortable playing when standing up.
I have heard a lot about shoulder issues.

 

[lordzedd]

Good question but I don't know, maybe Paul or Ventura could give an estimate. You've got an extra 41 (or 12) reed sets, L, M, or H, probably on a separate block, plus some slider/switch addition. Lots of variables. What's your average reed block weigh?

From Liberty Bellows' website:

Brand: Hohner
Model: Tango IIIM
Type: Piano Accordion
Reeds: 3/4 LMM
Treble: 41 Keys, 20"(51cm) Key to Key, 9 Registers
Bass: 120 Bass Buttons, 3 Registers
Weight: 19lbs / 8.5kg

Make: Hohner
Model: Tango VM
Type: Piano Accordion
Reeds: 4/4 LMMM
Treble: 41 Keys, 20"(51cm) Key to Key, 13 Registers
Bass: 120 Bass Buttons, 6 Registers
Weight: 21lbs / 9.5kg

Looks like an extra 2lbs/1kg for an extra 41 note M reedblock (plus a few additional register switches on each side) on 1950s vintage Hohners. Maybe a bit more if the microphone system on the IIIM is a significant factor in this comparison.

 

[saundersbp]

I have limited experience but I find bigger ones easier to play. You can go much longer without needing to change bellows direction and can rest the accordion on your lap and let gravity do half the work. The trade off is they're much less convenient to travel with and it takes more effort to pick up etc.!

Spot on for me too. There's nothing more liberating than an instrument you can sling over your shoulder and take with you without any fuss. Bigger is easier to play but you'd think twice before jumping on the bus with it!