Smaller accordions?

[craptiger]

One of the main reasons for me switching to CBA was the size of the keyboard. I damaged a nerve in my right forearm which mean stretching from C to E with my 2nd and 3rd fingers was painful. On a CBA they're adjacent buttons. That coupled with the much smaller box (I have a Saltarelle Bourroche) which makes it easier to cart around makes the CBA a winner for me over the PA any day.

 

[debra]

One of the main reasons for me switching to CBA was the size of the keyboard.  I damaged a nerve in my right forearm which mean stretching from C to E with my 2nd and 3rd fingers was painful.  On a CBA they're adjacent buttons.  That coupled with the much smaller box (I have a Saltarelle Bourroche) which makes it easier to cart around makes the CBA a winner for me over the PA any day.

With CBA you still have to be careful when selecting a model as the size and spacing of the buttons varies a lot. When the accordion is essentially the same as a piano accordion large buttons are used to "spread" the keyboard over the entire length of the accordion (and often adding a few dummy buttons for looks). These buttons are 16.5mm in diameter, and 2 octaves take up 16cm. When the accordion is a typical CBA (not having an equivalent PA model) the buttons are smaller, like 15mm, and so is the spacing. But... I have two Bugari CBA accordions with these 15mm buttons and one spans 2 octaves over 15cm while the other spans 2 octaves over 14.5cm. So that varies too! (Note that 15mm buttons and 14.5cm for 2 octaves is standard for a bayan.)
"Sadly" I play bayan as well as bass accordion so I have to cope with these differences, especially 14.5cm versus 16cm for 2 octaves, which is a whole button difference!

 

[Bella]

I chose to play p.a. rather than button as I (wrongly) expected to translate directly from piano, which I've played on and off for 45 years. I believe I have full size keys on my accordion, but they are considerably smaller than piano keys. As a beginner to the instrument, it is proving my greatest frustration, as anything more than a 3 or 4 note stretch, I invariably hit the wrong note. In many respects I wish I had chosen button accordion instead as it would have new learning instead of modifying.

I have a 72 bass which is a good size for me even though just 5'3", though I do sit with it. Could probably stand if I had better shoulder straps.

 

[JohnT]

Am I right in thinking that the 'standard' accordion key size is 20 mm and 'compact' is anything less than that?

Thanks guys.

 

[JerryPH]

As a beginner to the instrument, it is proving my greatest frustration, as anything more than a 3 or 4 note stretch, I invariably hit the wrong note. In many respects I wish I had chosen button accordion instead as it would have new learning instead of modifying.

I have a 72 bass which is a good size for me even though just 5'3", though I do sit with it. Could probably stand if I had better shoulder straps.

Bella, key word here... beginner. 
For the longer spreads, be patient with yourself and remember... "Repetition is the Mother of Skill".  It may take you several months of slow repetition to get it right, don't get discouraged!

Is there a specific reason you need to stand to play?  That's another thing, even when playing in public, I might start off with 1 song playing standing, after that, I simply talk to the audience and ask them if they would mind if I sat down... never had anyone tell me to stand back up again (lol), and that results in me being able to play better and longer.

 

[Dingo40]

Bella,
To quote Dale Carnegie, " Stop worrying, start living!"
The matter of key/keyboard dimensions is not critical!
Whatever dimensions you've been used to. you will soon enough become thoroughly accustomed to a variety of different ones, as long as you keep cool and keep playing 
I myself and many here on the forum all have a variety of instruments each, each instrument varying from each other instrument in different ways dimensionally and yet all of us have adapted to playing them without any significant issues.
You too will adapt soon enough!

 

[Bella]

Thank you for those words of encouragement (though I'm far from discouraged, just a bit frustrated). Wasn't meaning to hijack the thread for my own purposes - just adding my two penn'orth.

 

[kimric]

Weltmeister used to make several models with the narrow keys and reduced basses (and with MM). The 60-bass/30-treble Rubin, for example, clocks at under 6kg (a bit over 12lbs). Not sure if they still have that line... lots of changes there over the past couple of years.

Weltmeister makes several 18 MM key instruments, The Rubin 60 bass, Jewel 72 bass and the Opal 96 bass.
Currently nobody I am aware of makes a 120 bass with narrow keys.

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The Hohner company is again focusing only on smallsize PAs with the Hohner XS mini accordion.
Is Hohner also offering a mini CBA alternative in the Hohner XS series?
Or is the PA layout the only option with the Hohner company?


There is a cheap alternative to the Hohner XS mini piano accordion:
the China Goldencup or Excalibur mini CBAs :
https://www.jimlaabsmusicstore.com/store/chromatic-accordions/


Its mini CBAs like this that the Chinese are using in their music schools for accordion education:
http://www.coupemondiale.org/china/shang...07June.htm

I would avoid the excalibur accordions, the bass machines are a unholy engineering nightmare.

 

[OuijaBoard]

The point of Weltmeister's slim-key models is to offer the player more treble keys and basses in smaller box dimensions and weight. The slim-key Rubin (2-voice) and Juwel (3-voice) models give 30 treble and 60 or 72 bass, in a box the size of a conventional 26/48. They are Welt's most popular models, BTW. The Perle model 2-voice is the same dimensions as the Rubin, but a conventional 26/48 with full-width 20mm keys. The slim-key Opal offers 37/96 in a box the size of the 34/72 Achat, which has full-width keys.

If you are comfortable with the slim keys (it is untrue that key-width differences become unnoticeable to all people in all cases "once you get used to it"), it's a wonderful option to have, and I find it a surprising that comparable options are not offered by more makers. Probably any high-end mark can produce a custom order, but that's different . . .

The Rubin or Juwel might be a very nice fit for Bella if full-width keys continue to seem a barrier after giving them a full chance with patient practice. There is no reason to torture yourself with wider keys, and perhaps exclude yourself from this wonderful instrument, if narrower would fill the bill. Key-width choices are one more advantage PA has over actual pianos. (It is utterly asinine that similar options---for key width as well as key "action distance" or "travel distance," are not available for pianists.)

Slimmer-key accordions with 120 basses are plentiful on the used market. They used to be dubbed "ladies-size" or sometimes, student-size (now often called "smaller-hands" sizes). Some players still choose these accordions precisely for the key widths and play brilliantly on them without ever changing sizes. An excellent-condition used accordion with this configuration is another option for a player finding full-width keys a tough propoosition.

 

[Bella]

If you are comfortable with the slim keys (it is untrue that key-width differences become unnoticeable to all people in all cases "once you get used to it"), it's a wonderful option to have, and I find it a surprising that comparable options are not offered by more makers.

The Rubin or Juwel might be a very nice fit for Bella if full-width keys continue to seem a barrier after giving them a full chance with patient practice. There is no reason to torture yourself with wider keys, and perhaps exclude yourself from this wonderful instrument, if narrower would fill the bill.

Slimmer-key accordions with 120 basses are plentiful on the used market. They used to be dubbed "ladies-size" or sometimes, student-size (now often called "smaller-hands" sizes).

It's an interesting thought, OuijaBoard, though my difficulties don't arise from having small hands, as they are quite the reverse. I have no difficulty in covering an octave + a note, and can reach an octave + 2 notes (so C to E) on a regular piano. Ladies gloves rarely fit properly (neither do men's for that matter) - I have long slimish hands.

The benefit for me of a smaller key width could potentially be in it being so markedly different from a piano keyboard it would be a complete relearn, rather than an adjustment (same reason I had considered changing to a button accordion).

Co-incidentally, while I was playing this morning, the frustrations asserted themselves once more. Simple, simple one line music that I could play with my eyes closed on piano, repeatedly trips me up. Playing just right hand is better, as my brain is fully engaged in that hand's action, but all falls apart when both together. Renumbering the fingering has helped some, so not fingered as I would for piano, but how it best falls under my hand for accordion. However, what I discovered this morning is that years of playing piano while reading music have taught my hand to 'recognise' a specific interval between two notes in the written music, whether as a chord or as a progression from one note to the next. In other words, I think the actual notation may be hindering me. As an experiment, I am going to write out a couple of the pieces using the note letters and see if it makes a difference. If it does help, then it may just get me over this hurdle until I become more reliably familiar with the smaller key size.

 

[kimric]

OuijaBoard
If you are comfortable with the slim keys (it is untrue that key-width differences become unnoticeable to all 
However, what I discovered this morning is that years of playing piano while reading music have taught my hand to 'recognise' a specific interval between two notes in the written music, whether as a chord or as a progression from one note to the next. In other words, I think the actual notation may be hindering me. As an experiment, I am going to write out a couple of the pieces using the note letters and see if it makes a difference. If it does help, then it may just get me over this hurdle until I become more reliably familiar with the smaller key size.

At the shop I suggest to folks using a narrower key to do scales on them at first and also for a few min each day before sitting down to practice.
 In my work with Weltmeister I have suggested that they might want to consider building a 120 bass 41 key 3 reed version of the Opal. With the weight reduction we have achieved on the new Supita it would be possible to keep it in the 17lb range.

 

[Tor]

I have "full size" keys, which I find I prefer to the narrower keys because I can just get my fingers between the black keys when I need to. I'm still not entirely sure why the size that did became full size, but I suspect it's a balance between making the keyboard too big, and making it possible for enough people to get their fingers in where they want them.

If your fingers fit between the black keys of a smaller accordion, then definitely see if you can get hold of one to try. Smaller accordions with fewer basses often also have the narrower keys, and may be easier to come by for testing purposes. As mentioned, older 2/4 reed accordions with narrow keys are usually pretty easy to come by in decent condition as well.

Even a 4/5 accordion could be made with smaller keys, and this is starting with some of the better makers. The limiting factor in close spacing is not even close to being the reeds.