Never a bad accordion

[StargazerTony]

There was in interesting thread awhile ago called Never a Bad Colour asking if you would you buy an otherwise nice accordion if were an ugly color (sorry but we dont use to many extra Us here in USA English) . My take was that sound was the premier qualification for me, with color being way down on the list, perhaps even last.

It got me wondering what qualities do you look for? I look for:

Sound. Nice rich, LOUD, at least LMM, maybe LMMM. Dont have use for an H block because I cant hear it.

A couple of treble switches. Bassoon, master, clarinet, violin and/or a couple of musette. Speaking of musette, I like dry to medium. I understand that a LMMM is going to have at least one rather wet musette and thats OK for a song or two. Very wet musette gets annoying to me after a bit

Bass switches. Not really. My current one has master and tenor and Ive never used tenor. Dont really hear the difference between bass piano and master either

A fast keyboard. Rounded, short throw keys. Dont want to glissondo myself into an injury of some sort on sharp keys.

Reeds that vibrate with just a hint of air

Wide, thick straps. I know one can replace straps but it just doesnt seem right that one spends LOTS of money on an accordion that has thin little straps sized for a child that could cut cheese or dig into shoulders.

I have others, but what are some of yours?

.

 

[wout]

For me that would be LMMH with cassotto. Currently I have LMMMH but my MMM is not very wet so it sounds real nice.
Nice light keyboard, with rounded edges instead of square. A good deep vibrating bass that is, very important to me, in balance with the treble side. As long for bassswitches I need at least 3 because otherwise there is only a tanner and master available, and I like to use the bass only setting alot. Now I have 6 and sometimes I use the bass soprano setting, but I don't need it really. Well fast responding reeds ofcourse and an airtight bellow. I prefer a backpad as well but thats easily installed.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hello Tony,

George Washington himself criticised Noah Webster's famous/infamous dictionary, stating his objection as being the ruination of an expressive and nuanced language. It was Webster's obsessive revolutionary fervour which led him to break with traditional English spelling, and owes more to his parochial attitudes than it does to any derived linguistic benefit. The "U" is not extra.

The qualities on which we choose our accordions appear, at first glance, to be entirely objective, though I wonder if they really are. I readily accept that we are all looking for a great sound, but that only comes at a price.

Would it not be true to say that every purchase involves compromise? My ideal car would be a Rolls Royce or Bentley, but my pensions don't run to that.

I own three accordions, the total cost of all three being only £350. Yes, that's right, £350 for all three accordions. (I like a bargain, and the last one was free) In the great scheme of things, we are not poor, but we must put our home and the costs of running two cars to the front of our equations.

My instruments are not perfect in every way, but they are damned good for the price I have paid for them. I am also mindful of the venues I play in, which I do not think warrant any greater expense.

This thread is really interesting, as it offers an opportunity for members to compare their aspirations to their circumstances. Well done for thinking this one up, Tony.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[StargazerTony]

Weull, thaunk youu Stephuen. Thouught iut wuas anu interrstuing topiuc tuoo

That's going to kill my spell checker.

Of course one must live within one's means. My only accordion is not perfect, far from it actually. It is, however, what I have, and I love it despite it's shortcomings. One can dream and think. I think that learning more about our instrument of choice is always beneficial

 

[Anyanka]

I had completely different criteria for my two accordions. The Morris box had to be lightweight, and I really was hooked on the Hohner sound ever since my first encounter with a Hohner Student (I now play its CBA equivalent, the Hohner Amati). It needs to be MM, and I want a coupler for single-reed, even though I hardly ever use it. The Hohner MM tuning is good for Morris, carries well and fits the music. Colour red was a bonus; the yellow bellows even more so (our side colours are red, green & yellow).

For my big box, I wanted Italian from the moment some other players let me try their Italian boxes (I had an elderly East German Galotta at the time). The attraction lay in the sound quality, and the easy action: the Galotta required so much strength that I could not practise for long. It had to be at least LMM, with the MM tuning somewhere in the 'swing' region. I had a preference for Pigini simply because my two favourite players had those at the time, and I loved the sound they made - Karen Tweed has since switched to something different, but the great Martin Green is still on Pigini. Another factor is the number of right-hand keys: the more the better, as I like playing single reed on the L, an octave up, rather than on the M reed, whenever possible. I was lucky, and both times that I 'needed' a Pidge, I found a good value, superb condition second-hand one (Pigini Wing piano accordion, followed by C37 chromatic button box).

 

[george garside]

to me the single most important factor in choosing a box is simply 'do I like the sound it makes'. Unless you are going to spend a lot of money having it retuned you are stuck with it and a bargain that you don't like the sound of is not a bargain!

Way in the past I have chosen for other reasons thinking I will get used to it but I always sold them on fairly quickly.

There are of course many other factors to consider but if you are not immediately 'hooked' on the sound you never will be!

george

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi Tony,

Ha ha ha, I love your humorous response. Good for you.

It is a fact, which you alluded to, that we should be happy with what we have. Good friends and a good name are worth more than Gold. As we see from the examples set by famous and wealthy pop & sports stars, money is not always a panacea for happiness. In fact, the reverse is often true.

If we all had infinite wealth, would we all end up with a Gola? Should our own limitations play a part in our decisions?

I remember, some years ago now, seeing a very elderly lady at the wheel of a high performance BMW sports car. She was chugging along at well below the speed limit, and seemed quite out of place driving the snarling monster in her charge. Do you see what I am getting at?

Truth be known, I could afford to buy a decent new accordion, but would it make me a better accordionist? The people who hear me play most often love the accordions I own, and I am quite content with them.

I love this thread, as it actually gets to the heart of the conflicting choices we all have to make. An elderly gentleman of recent acquaintance has offered me an accordion which he has not even attempted play in many years. He knows little about it, but thinks it may be a Hohner. From what I can gather, this chap bought the accordion with the intention of learning to play it, but found it too difficult and consequently abandoned his studies. He has no idea of its Bass size, or anything else for that matter. When he told me that he was considering throwing it in a skip, I offered him an alternative to this drastic measure. I await developments.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[debra]

...
Dont have use for an H block because I cant hear it.
...

I find this hard to believe. You may not hear the H reeds on the highest notes, but surely you should hear a difference when the lowest notes are played on M versus MH and certainly when L versus LH are used. Everyone who isnt near-deaf must be able to hear that.

Apart from all the combinations of reeds many accordions will sound differently in L, M and H reeds too. If you play the lowest C on the H reed, C one octave higher on the M reed, and C another octave higher on the L reed, this often produces 3 different sounds.

A standard bayan (no tremolo) for instance has the L in cassotto + M not in cassotto as a popular register, even though it also has M in cassotto + H not in cassotto. The two combinations do not sound the same.
But also on a regular cassotto instrument there is obviously a large difference in sound between MH with M in cassotto and H not, versus playing one octave higher with LM, L and M both being in cassotto...

While no instrument has all the sounds you may want, I generally prefer an LMMH setting with L and M in cassotto, and MM having a light tremolo (between 12 and 16 cents depending on taste). The H reed is most important in the lower half of the keyboard where it is most clearly heard. (And many people will also hear it quite well over the entire keyboard of a PA.)

I have not come across any LMMH instrument with L and M in cassotto that I would consider a bad accordion.
But obviously not everyone can afford such instruments which on the used market are 1.500 and up (and more likely 2.500 and up). For less money you most likely have no cassotto, and perhaps not even an H reed, but you can still get an LMMH instrument (without cassotto) for well under 1.000 (euro or dollar or pound). It pays to go for a better quality oldie than a new lower grade instrument. A Hohner Verdi II N (37/96) is a fine LMM instrument, a Verdi V a fine (41/120) LMMM instrument and an Atlantic IV (41/120) a fine LMMH instrument, the older even better than the IV N. All of these can be found under 1.000 and can serve you a lifetime. People most often go wrong by trying to find a good instrument for under 500. This is very much hit or miss.

 

[debra]

...
If we all had infinite wealth, would we all end up with a Gola?
...

Thats a really good question. If infinite wealth means being able to afford many accordions and hiring a person to carry everything for us I think the answer would probably be yes, as one of several accordions.
For me, as much as I truly love the sound of a Gola, if money was no objection but I could spend it on only one accordion I dont think it would be a Gola. I actually think that I would get a high-end Bugari bayan model and have it fitted with the best Russian bayan reed plates.
Sadly, money *is* an objection, so Im happy with my AKKO bayan which probably cost 1/4 of what my infinite wealth option would be. And I already feel very privileged as many people have to look for an accordion of less than 1/10 of what I spent.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi Kirsten,

I started out with a Galotta. (which I still own) I then traded up/down (delete which is inapplicable) to a very nifty Chanson. (again, which I still own) Now I own a lovely Hohner Arietta IV M 120/41, and may soon own another Hohner of (as yet) undetermined size.

Serendipity has played a very large part in my "choices", as I have accepted instruments for either very little or no money. This may not be the traditional method for choosing instruments, nor does it necessarily reflect my personal tastes, but it has worked out very well for me.

I do not advocate this method for everyone, as it comes with certain limitations, but I am immensely pleased with all my "choices."

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Paul,

There are lots of accordions I would like to own, top of the list being a Weltmeister 120/41 (probably the Saphir)

A very good friend of mine, a professional musician, owns a beautiful Bugari, and I can well understand your interest in that brand.

If we all wanted the same things, we would all be driving around in Fords. Though I have owned a few Fords, they are not at the top of my automobile wish list.

I like this thread.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

This is a good topic .

I have not bought an accordion for a few months now, probably a good thing because I have been buying with my heart more than my head. This is partly due to having a 'Eurika!' moment a couple of years ago whilst trying several accordions 'for sale', and found one that I fell in love with the sound of.... I am still playing it and it is still my favorite , most of the time.
But now after several further cheap, but inapropriate, purchases following the same make or era of my favorite model I am beginning to formulate what I want in a modern instrument. I totally agree with George that the sound is the most important factor but finding that along with other criteria such as:

440hz pitch.
Strong, warm sound.
5 row C system CBA.
Lighter weight than current stable
but not too small.
Basson in Cassoto
LMM or LMMH
96Bass French 3/3 (no convertor)
4 or 5 reed Bass
3 or 4 registres on the Basses.
Nice colour

The colour is important from a re-sale view point, ask any car salesman, but is the least important.

Size is an issue. My first CBA was 30cm ( 12") high in the playing position. I could never find a comfortable position and it would jiggle about at every bellows direction change. It is probably not such a problem with Piano Accordions, more a case of them being too tall for some. My current favorite box is 40cm high and the right end is heavy enough that it sits firmly on my thigh and can be gently played without the shoulder straps. So too tall or two small can be a problem. The 30cm model would work well for strapping high on one's chest and for playing standing.

Having a Dealer/ Tuner within easy reach of home can be another positive factor when making a choice and my nearest professional sells Bugari, Beltuna, Mengascini, Gadji and Pigini.....Hmmmm... any suggestions ?

 

[debra]

...criteria such as:

440hz pitch.
Strong, warm sound.
5 row C system CBA.
Lighter weight than current stable
but not too small.
Basson in Cassoto
LMM or LMMH
96Bass French 3/3 (no convertor)
4 or 5 reed Bass
3 or 4 registres on the Basses.
Nice colour
...
Having a Dealer/ Tuner within easy reach of home can be another positive factor when making a choice and my nearest professional sells Bugari, Beltuna, Mengascini, Gadji and Pigini.....Hmmmm... any suggestions ?

Something like a Bugari 470/CHC might be to your liking.
(http://www.bugariarmando.com/index....ss-chromatic-standard-bass&Itemid=394&lang=en)
It is 42cm and claimed to be 10.2kg (but accordions are always a bit heavier than any manufacturer claims).
If you dont like the reed quality on a Championcassotto Bugari will gladly put in Artistcassotto reeds (for a price).

When you want to really know what models can be made it helps to talk to the actual manufacturers and not rely on catalogs, brochures or company websites.

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

Many thanks for your suggestion Paul.
I was wondering what you might say and I have been thinking of the Bugari 470/CHC or perhaps the Beltuna Prestige 1050.

 

[debra]

Many thanks for your suggestion Paul.
I was wondering what you might say and I have been thinking of the Bugari 470/CHC or perhaps the Beltuna Prestige 1050.

The Bugari is 4 voice but only 42 notes or thereabout. The Beltuna is 3 voice and 50 notes (or thereabout). I believe also that this Beltuna is French style (registers under keyboard) and the Bugari is Italian style (registers on the grille). Hard to compare these accordions.
It is always hard to decide which compromise you are willing to make: more notes, more voices, cassotto, convertor... and all the choices mean more weight, bigger size and most importantly more money.
Unless you get a raw deal there is no such thing as a bad accordion. The deal you get determines whether it is a good deal for the money, but accordions come in all sizes and prices, and can be a good or bad deal at any price... It is most often a bad deal when the accordion isnt what you wanted, or worse, is an accordion you in the end cannot live with.

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

Difficult comparisons indeed, especially when one has not tried them or even seen them in the flesh. I think I will visit the 'Salon d'Accordéon' in Paris next month where I ought to be able to get a closer look at the market.
Thanks again Paul.

 

[TomBR]

Geoff specified....

440hz pitch.
Strong, warm sound.
5 row C system CBA.
Lighter weight than current stable
but not too small.
Basson in Cassoto
LMM or LMMH
96Bass French 3/3 (no convertor)
4 or 5 reed Bass
3 or 4 registres on the Basses.
Nice colour

Yes, absolutely. That spec would do me very nicely indeed, except Im currently happy with four rows and prefer the appearance over five rows.

(Dare I say it, 5 rows have a bit too much of a typewriter look for me! )

Tom

 

[Anyanka]

Geoff, your specs appeal to me as well! Ive parked my desire for a light-weight gigging box for now, esp as Id probably only save a kg or two, at an expense of £3000ish... I found the make I like for that dream accordion a couple of years ago, at the Luthiers festival at the Chateau dArs. Its FISART, a subdivision or something like that of Vignoni. Not available in this country, and the awful exchange rate of the UK £ makes it a lot less attractive these days.

http://www.fisart.fr/en/

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

Ooooooh !
Yet more temptation.... Fisart .... yes I'd forgotten about them... hmmmm... ? Thanks Anyanka.

4 rows look neater, 5 look like a typewriter ? Hmmm... my wife made a similar observation today saying some of the 5 row model's keyboards appeared to stick out and over balance the look... especially on the smaller boxes.

Fiddling around with transposing some tunes in different keys on the first three rows I find third row key note paterns feel nearly as natural when coming from first row keys ( ie C tunes played in D) but transposing same to G is less comfortable.... but then the fourth row would help for that.... so 4 rows is a good alternative and much easier to find in France.... where combining a need for 5 rows and 440hz pitch greatly limits the choice of available second hand instruments.

 

[Anyanka]

The 4-row-ness actually deters me; I've got a 3-row and a 5-row, and I don't think I could cope with another variation on that. Fisart would make a 5-row if I wanted (and had the money!!!), but that would make it heavier, which defies the purpose. See how I'm trying to talk myself out of Wanting?