'Modern' accordion teaching?

[Soulsaver]

I was reading on a site the other day that listed some of the factors that ended the 'accordion golden era' in the early 1960s, and included 'Old fashioned teaching methods...'

Have the teaching methods changed? If so how?

 

[george garside]

Maybe the 'old fashioned' teaching methods were more disciplined and included set fingering patterns, lots of scale practice and steady progress through a whole library of graded tutor books , exams etc.

However I am sure that a great many players in the ''accordion golden era' were self taught and of course that included the most prolific & popular accordion recording artist ever Sir Jimmy Shand . Indeed Sir Jimmy is largely to blame for the popularity of the accordion being the reason many people took up the instrument ( and that includes me!)

So perhaps it wasn't the demise of old fashioned teaching methods but the lack of a popular role model that reduced the popularity of the box.????? discuss!


george

 

[Deleted member 48]

Dont think the teaching methods, be it modern or old fashioned teaching methods, have anything to do with the ending of the golden era of the accordion.

The change in music culture and taste, the upcoming of the folk guitar and electric guitar , and the rise of rock and roll music, Elvis , The Beatles, etc ended the era of the accordion.
The Italian makers in Castelfidardo have felt this directly in their sales numbers in that period.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/02/business/global/02accordions.html?_r=0
Now, years after the electric guitar became the instrument of choice in popular music — people here still point to Elvis Presley and the Beatles as their economic nemeses

 

[Soulsaver]

I am sure you mean well, George, but if reasons for the end of the golden era are more interesting to you then start your own thread on it.
My thread is intended to try to establish if and how teaching techniques have changed.

 

[Deleted member 48]

An pdf book is online with interviews of international accordionists and accordion teachers at conservatories:
Claudio Jacomucci has his English book pdf online Modern Accordion Perspectives on his website, 89 pages, all in English, about pedagogy, teaching, music, etc.

http://www.claudiojacomucci.com/CDs_&_Books.html

 

[BobM]

Have the teaching methods changed? If so how?

Ive only had 2 lessons, one to check my playing position and one to deal with some RH fingering issues. I wanted help with specifics, not to get on a structured program. This might be the position for a lot of older people who want to play in a specific way, and not aspire to becoming concert level performers.

Ive noticed that there is a trend towards method books aimed at a specific style, whereas in the past a method book would often carry the word complete in the title just like...

The Anzaghi Complete Method book has been criticised for not having enough tunes in it, which is to miss the point completely. The Piano Accordion Absolute Beginners by Tweed/Mallinson is just the opposite, being full of tunes (60 ish) and specific to the trad/folk genre.

Having completed the Anzaghi it should be possible to play most of what is in the Karen Tween book, but not necessarily the other way round. Horses for courses I guess, I own both, and find them very useful.

The big change is that we dont live in an age of deference anymore; for the old way to work, the pupil had to get his/her head down, shell out the dosh, and hope that the teacher knew the score, no pun intended..

BobM.

 

[Glenn]

I don't think for any instrument there is a book that "teaches" you to play. You effectively always teach yourself. The teacher however is the key to a fast and lasting success due to their experience and motivational powers. Trouble is, the number if teachers now available is chronically small. I imagine the teaching methods if those available had stayed fairly constant in view of no new published teaching methods appearing these last few decades. Where teaching methods may have changed is in the non classical sphere where perhaps the scope to experiment is larger as this type of teaching may include playing by ear and accompanying other musicians and dancers.


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[Deleted member 48]

It seems to me some important voices are missing here on this (and some other accordion) forums... the accordion teachers voices !

Why don't we invite more accordion teachers worldwide, attached to public music schools and conservatories, to this accordion forum??

They have the experience, and their voices are not heard.
If we don't have direct feedback from the teachers themselves, we keep turning in circles , and the discussion is limited to an inner circle of amateur accordionists.
I don't mean to exclude amateur accordionist opionions, but talking and discussing about teaching methods without hearing and reading the teachers' opinions seems strange to me....

 

[Glenn]

Excellent idea Stephen. Do professional teachers have the time and inclination to mingle with us well meaning amateurs?


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[Deleted member 48]

I fear indeed most accordion teachers don't have much time to spend on internet fora, because they are too busy studying for concerts/recitals or teaching accordion students.
However, it is in the interest of the accordion teachers to inform the public on the internet in a correct way about accordion didactics, pedagogy, etc.

I think there also might be a cultural gap between the cultural music spheres of conservatory teachers (focused on classical and avantgarde music for the accordion) and the broad worldwide amateur accordionist community (focused on folk music, musette and popular accordion music).
I can easily make the bridge between these worlds, I play all sorts of music on my accordions, but history has shown there have been many conflicts on these cultural divided worlds.

I think most accordion teachers will fear internet accordion forums, because they know most people dislike classical accordion music.

Still, I think we should invite as many accordion teachers as possible to become members of accordion forums.

 

[Anyanka]

I think most accordion teachers will fear internet accordion forums, because they know most people dislike classical accordion music.

Stephen, you seem to equate accordion teacher with classical music, but there are many who teach other styles only. As you said yourself, the two dont mix much, unfortunately!

 

[Deleted member 48]

Most accordion teachers will play different genres, classical music and popular music. There aren't many teachers playing mainly classical or avantgarde music, an example of someone focussing on contemporary accordion music was Teodoro Anzellotti.

A teacher is by definition someone having passed all exams and obtained a degree at conservatory, and it is impossible to obtain a degree withou playing free bass accordion and classical/contemporary accordion music.
Yes, accordion teacher in Europe equates with classical and free bass accordion, but also includes other music genres, like jazz and more popular music.

In continental Europe this was the decisive moment in accordion history, when the decision was made teachers had to have an official degree.

In all our public music schools accordion students must play most genres for accordion: classical, popular, folk songs, ....
That is the main difference between private lessons and public accordion education:
private lessons: the student pays the teacher, and the student is the one choosing the repertoire to be studied.
public school: the teacher and the ministery of education decides the program and repertoire, and sets out the standards for examination.

 

[BobM]

The Royal Academy of Music has been offering an Accordion based music degree for a while.

http://www.ram.ac.uk/find-people?pid=123


http://www.karenstreet.bigshedmusic.co.uk/page2.html

 

[Deleted member 48]

Yes, teachers like Owen Murray and Paul Chamberlain are among the English and Scottish teachers.
It is the UK teachers that have to convince the UK Ministery of Education to open more accordion teaching postitions at conservatories or universities.

The same standards should apply for accordion, as with eg violin, cello, piano, trumpet, saxophone, ...

If you want to be a violin teacher at the Royal Academy of Music, you have to pass exams and the full program.
You can't say, I played violin in my kitchen for 20 years or in pubs, so give me the teaching position at the Royal Academy of Music. No, you have to follow the x years program and pass all exams with brio.

That is so for all musical instruments, if you want to be an offical teacher, you have to follow the complete study program and pass all exams succesfully.
It should be no different for accordion.
But the ministeries of education and culture, and the government should reserve a budget for paying the teachers' wages and posts...
In most countries the governments have done this for accordion. Some countries still have to catch up.

 

[Matt Butcher]

... and it is possible to get private lessons from Prof. Owen Murray, I know a teenage lad in Birmingham, a friend of the family, who does this, alongside continued lessons with a local teacher, and Prof. Murray has helped his playing fantastically. (I don't think he has that much time spare to give private lessons but he may have other pupils, I don't know. However the benefit of these lessons has not in my opinion just come from Prof. Murray's own skill on the instrument, though obviously this is a big help. It also comes from his skill as a teacher in putting across the things that make for a good performance, understanding the pupil and what makes them tick, what to do to make a particular pupil learn, etc. To overgeneralise massively, the focus seems to have been on learning to play music of a medium-complex standard with maximum musicality (including the technique to make the playing more musical) rather than pressing on learning loads and loads of new and ever more complex pieces. This in turn has made it much easier and faster for this pupil to pick up new material and to play it like a musician rather than like a kid.

(By the same token I have also come across teachers on other instruments who are conservatoire qualified etc. but still terrible teachers. I am sure you can learn from many musicians if they have the right teaching skills to put their knowledge across. Which is not to put down the value of formal training in any way, just look at the impact it has had on the continent.)

And perhaps in the past some accordion teachers in the UK may have focused more on progressing through more and more pieces, less perhaps on playing the instrument? I could well be wrong and no offence aimed at anyone.

I think there is also teaching repertoire about that seems old fashioned, based on chord progressions that are very alien to young people today, and there is also more modern stuff which might motivate them more (not necessarily better music or worse, just something that the pupil can relate to.

 

[Matt Butcher]

To be fair, you aren't going to be able to get a teaching post at the Royal Academy on any instrument just by passing exams and doing a degree.

 

[Deleted member 48]

Every teacher has his character and teaching style, but that is a different discussion.
I just pointed out the difference between official music education, backed by a government education policy, including study programs, exam programs, degrees and diplomas, ...
and on the other side the more informal way of teaching.

The situation in the UK and the USA is different from other countries. Because there are so few accordion teachers with a conservatory degree in the UK and the USA, there isn't much competition between teachers for teaching positions and accordion students.
In other countries, where you have masses of young accordionists with conservatory degrees, competition for obtaining a teaching post at conservatories is much more intense. As a result, you get better teachers.

What is important is to start at primary music school level. It is important beginners have well qualified and good teachers.
In the past , end 19th century up to 1960s and even later, every, excusez-moi le mot, "clown with an accordion" could call himself an accordion teacher. In many cases, these teachers were pianists who lacked the talent to become a concert pianist or good piano teacher. So the alternative was to become a piano accordion teacher... for making some money.
The accordion makers and factories liked this idea, because they could sell a lot more accordions... Commercially this was brilliant, at education level it was a disaster.

It took a lot of guts, to break with this amateuristic system, and demand equal standards for the accordion, as with other musical instruments.
I'm aware of this unpopular opinion, but why should there be different standards for accordion teachers, than for other musical instruments teachers?

Ok, in private music education, you can do whatever you like, it's a matter of money.
Public music education, it's a matter of didactics and pedagogy. I know it's not popular to share this opinions, but ask accordion teachers in public music schools/conservatories and ask their opinions.
Believe me, it was a long time before heads of music conservatories accepted the accordion at conservatory. It took many "Segovias" of the accordion to obtain this.

 

[Matt Butcher]

Stephen, I did not intend to disagree with you! I think what Prof Murray has done in this country was brilliant, I have been to lots of workshops and events where he put forward similar views, and I think it would be fantastic if there were lots of conservatory trained students in the UK for students to approach. This would help to raise the overall standard a lot. It may be that with immigration these players will come to the UK to teach. There are also UK teachers who work with the colleges who do offer accordion to maximise their students' opportunities. And other teachers who are working in totally different fields.

My teacher worked hard to support the state backed Trinity Guildhall exam syllabus, designed with the Royal Academy and put more students in than anyone else in this country (I think). But it finished anyway. It may not help to achieve progress in the UK to imply that teachers who didn't do a performance degree on accordion are all incompetent. Many will not have had these opportunities in the past.

But my aim was not to contradict you - I just wanted to mention what I thought I had observed about teaching methods and how old-school ones might differ from more modern ones. I certainly agree it would be great if more highly trained players were around to teach.

All I meant was to comm

 

[Pippa]

A teacher is by definition someone having passed all exams and obtained a degree at conservatory, and it is impossible to obtain a degree withou playing free bass accordion and classical/contemporary accordion music.

I imagine that actually represents a small minority of teachers in the UK. A teacher is by definition, someone who teaches.

the broad worldwide amateur accordionist community (focused on folk music, musette and popular accordion music).

This being the majority. A folk/musette teacher who spends half their life playing music is just as much a teacher as someone who has trained at a conservatory.

Ok, in private music education, you can do whatever you like, its a matter of money. Public music education, its a matter of didactics and pedagogy. I know its not popular to share this opinions, but ...

Or in many cases, a matter of love of the instrument/music.

There are very many merits to both approaches, and it would be interesting to discuss all different kinds of teaching. Personally Im interested to learn both folk and classical music on the accordion, and Im sure it would take two different very teachers to help me out. Youll only find your opinions unpopular when you start implying one is the the right/correct/better approach.

 

[BobM]

I think there is also teaching repertoire about that seems old fashioned, based on chord progressions that are very alien to young people today, and there is also more modern stuff which might motivate them more (not necessarily better music or worse, just something that the pupil can relate to.

The colleges make the case for students to be challenged and exposed to forms of music which might be new to them. How the student uses their education afterwards is of course up to them.