Liberty bellows prices, honest? Fair?

[John M]

As with purchasing a previously owned car, it is definitely less expensive to buy a used accordion directly from the owner rather than from a dealer. But if it is a reputable dealer (and LB definitely is) they offer a great deal of value that, for many buyers, may be worth the added cost. To begin with, they absorb most of the risk associated with the condition of the instrument; if you buy from an individual, especially online, you take on that risk yourself. But also, they back up the sale with a warranty and they provide maintenance and repair services you will likely need at some point. When you buy online you might get the lowest price but, as they say, “all sales are final” and no returns or exchanges are available.

Several years ago I bought a used accordion from LB and, one week later, I returned it for a full refund. So my firsthand experience is that they are knowledgeable and trustworthy. Similarly, over the years I purchased two used accordions from John Castiglione, also a highly respected dealer, and I found that his prices were considerably lower than LB’s. Who knows why exactly?—maybe the overhead of doing business in Philadelphia is higher than in Detroit, or maybe LB just wants/needs a higher margin to grow their business. In any case, Castiglione is no longer in business, and LB is!

As you probably know, from my posts, I have had a lot of experience with Mike at Liberty Bellows. I don't know much about John Castiglione, but from what I have seen on this forum, he was a square/honest guy, just like Mike. I'll bet John was one of those guys that you could cut a verbal deal with a "handshake" and you knew it was as good as "Gold" -- much better than a long written contract that someone might try to "wiggle" out of.

Here's my "spin" on the comparison between Mike at Liberty Bellows and John Castiglione: I think they both were, roughly the same, on their profit margin. But Mike has a much larger "overhead" than John had (I'm not sure about this). So, at Liberty Bellows, with all the online videos, of lessons, the accordions that Mike has for sale, and a full staff of qualified repair technicians -- his "overhead" has to be a lot more than what John's was, and he still has to make some profit --so his cost is higher. They are both fair/square guys.
My 2 ¢.

 

[JKJ]

...one can indeed make good and reasonable comparisons between apples and oranges!

My personal comparison: apples and oranges are good! - they taste good and are good for me and I'm happy they both exist. I also love peaches, pears, cherries, blueberries, figs, strawberries, etc. Persimmons too, but they are a pain to pit. (We grow all of these except for citrus which we usually order from Florida)

I love musical instruments of all kinds. I am so thankful that dealers, techs, and teachers exist. Perfection does not exist in any of them but that's not of crucial importance. I'm glad they exist in my area.

 

[Thomas N]

As you probably know, from my posts, I have had a lot of experience with Mike at Liberty Bellows. I don't know much about John Castiglione, but from what I have seen on this forum, he was a square/honest guy, just like Mike. I'll bet John was one of those guys that you could cut a verbal deal with a "handshake" and you knew it was as good as "Gold" -- much better than a long written contract that someone might try to "wiggle" out of.

Here's my "spin" on the comparison between Mike at Liberty Bellows and John Castiglione: I think they both were, roughly the same, on their profit margin. But Mike has a much larger "overhead" than John had (I'm not sure about this). So, at Liberty Bellows, with all the online videos, of lessons, the accordions that Mike has for sale, and a full staff of qualified repair technicians -- his "overhead" has to be a lot more than what John's was, and he still has to make some profit --so his cost is higher. They are both fair/square guys.
My 2 ¢.

Dead right about John Castiglione. Everything was done over the phone. I'm in Southern California. The invoice was hand-written and there was no downpayment or deposit that I can recall. I paid him immediately when he received the accordion. He went through it and then sent it to me in perfect condition. Then he called to see how I liked it. I have nothing but kind things to say about John, and was sorry to hear both of his passing and the elimination of his extensive inventory and subsequent closing of his store. End of an era.

 

[Dingo40]

But I believe is better to make that mistake rather than being afraid, all the time, of speaking out!

A lot depends on the circumstances!
There's a wise saying:
"Discretion is the better part of valour!"
There are places in the world today where speaking out will get your head blown off or a very long jail sentence.
Here in Oz, currently, a number of people are facing the prospect of having to pay millions of dollars in penalties and costs for having spoken out what was on their mind.
Be wary!

 

[Alans]

I would love to visit Liberty Bellows but I’m never going to get to that town so..when I bought my first accordion
from them a long time ago I spoke with Mike for hours on the phone. He was so kind and enthusiastic. I was very impressed. He claims to have the biggest sheet music inventory-it is excellent but Deffner-albeit useless- has a much better inventory.
It was here a long time ago I first learned about the store.

 

[Alans]

On another note-has anyone followed the dealer from the Ukraine who sells a lot of accordions-used and swears by the quality of his instruments. It’s hard to know if he should be taken seriously but he’s always selling lots of instruments. He advertises on the Etsy site.

 

[Vladimir M.]

He advertises on the Etsy site.

Liberty Bellows is an example of a so-called brick-and-mortar store. They have a real headquarters at a real address where their workshops and shop and showroom and studio are really located. They have their own unique web platform where they offer their products, although this does not rule out that if they wanted to, they could also use public anonymous platforms such as eBay. Of course they have higher prices, pay property tax, and have business expenses.

If you are a (de facto) anonymous seller only on an Internet public platform, you can have many boxes in your garage and have much less costs. It's more convenient. From the seller's point of view, of course

Best regards, Vladimir

 

[dak]

If you are a (de facto) anonymous seller only on an Internet public platform, you can have many boxes in your garage and have much less costs. It's more convenient. From the seller's point of view, of course

It is not too uncommon for people to visit a brick-and-mortar store for physically checking out offerings and getting advice, then mail order with the cheapest online seller. Lots of brick-and-mortar stores have shuttered because of that. With accordions, that buyer strategy does not work all that well even with new instruments since a reputable shop will still do checkups and fixups on what they receive and the model roundup for every shop tends to be somewhat different.

 

[Jaime_Dergut]

It depends on the size of the audience how problematic learning by mistakes ends up. As musicians we might be accustomed to the concept of sorting out our mistakes in private and only going public once we have taken care of most of the problems. Sometimes separating the process of writing a reply and pressing the send button, possibly even by sleeping over it, achieves the purpose of having put to words what one wants to say and recognize without even getting an audience involved. Partly it's what in the old days diaries were for, or letters not getting sent but collected.

Everything is relative!

I have no issues torturing people's ears with my mistakes when playing a new song in public. They actually give me more tips for it out of sympathy, ha!

oh my

apples and oranges

Castiglione was a multi-generational Family business with Scandalli
and Excelsior among their premier long-term dealerships.

I would also add Italo American, now Romagnoli accordions.

They are still in running the store in Chicago and I tried several of their Italo American accordions. Very well done.

 

[dak]

I have no issues torturing people's ears with my mistakes when playing a new song in public. They actually give me more tips for it out of sympathy, ha!

The respective comparison to posting on a public Internet forum would be live-streaming to a global audience that you are planning on interacting with on a regular basis.

 

[Jaime_Dergut]

The respective comparison to posting on a public Internet forum would be live-streaming to a global audience that you are planning on interacting with on a regular basis.

Not really, because, let's be honest, transit here is minuscule.

Besides, I am not planing on becoming dictator of the world any time soon (although, I would love to, ha!).

 

[Dakota_Squeeze]

I have ordered three accordions from Mike at LB, two used and one new. Each time I had a conversation with Mike and he was quite kind and knowledgeable. One of the used accordions came with a (very minor) issue due to shipping and to help me save costs to ship it back he walked me through a simple fix and it has worked perfectly since. He would have taken it back in exchange but it wasn't necessary.

 

[Jaime_Dergut]

A lot depends on the circumstances!
There's a wise saying:
"Discretion is the better part of valour!"
There are places in the world today where speaking out will get your head blown off or a very long jail sentence.
Here in Oz, currently, a number of people are facing the prospect of having to pay millions of dollars in penalties and costs for having spoken out what was on their mind.
Be wary!

Absolutely!

In some parts of the world, men are afraid of being honest and saying what they really think, which is a perfect environment of fear for "evil to thrive" so to speak.

Nevertheless, it is a wise advice and it is good to be prudent on "turbulent waters" so to speak.

 

[RTW]

BY Dergut: Here in Oz, currently, a number of people are facing the prospect of having to pay millions of dollars in penalties and costs for having spoken out what was on their mind.
Be wary!

BY RTW: Likewise, there are those in OZ that deserve to pay out millions of dollars in penalties and costs for speaking out falsely causing irreputable damage to the innocent lives of others

Regards,
RTW

 

[Ffingers]

"BY RTW: Likewise, there are those in OZ that deserve to pay out millions of dollars in penalties and costs for speaking out falsely causing irreputable damage to the innocent lives of others."

Some specifics would be nice.

 

[Vladimir M.]

Dear friends,

I feel that natural disasters (storms, tornadoes, floods) are not enough for people and they try to improve difficult conditions with "juristic hail". It is sad if people allow themselves to be interrupted by a storm or a tornado in their legitimate legal disputes regarding damage to their reputation. Do we still need those natural elements at all? After all, we can easily manage on our own.

Back to the topic:
Here in Slovakia, there are three larger accordion dealers who cover the territory of this country (approx. 5 million inhabitants). One of them is also a certified repairman. How large a catchment population uses LB services in the US? I have no idea of the size of their territory and would like to compare it. By the way, when I briefly compared the prices of our sellers and LB (via internet), I must state that they are probably not exaggerated.

Best regards, Vladimir

 

[Dingo40]

Some specifics would be nice.

It's the specifics that cause the legal problems

 

[Scuromondo]

Here in Slovakia, there are three larger accordion dealers who cover the territory of this country (approx. 5 million inhabitants). One of them is also a certified repairman. How large a catchment population uses LB services in the US? I have no idea of the size of their territory and would like to compare it. By the way, when I briefly compared the prices of our sellers and LB (via internet), I must state that they are probably not exaggerated.

Best regards, Vladimir

Liberty Bellows is located in Philadelphia. If we make the assumption that customers would drive up to four hours, that would include not only the Philadelphia metro area (7 million), but also New York (20 million) and Washington/Baltimore (10 million). There are other accordion shops in New Jersey, New York, and the Washington area, but LB is by far the largest and with the most extensive internet presence.

 

[RTW]

BY Ffingers: Some specifics would be nice.

There are many others, but Rudy Giuliani comes to mind in my OZ world who recently filed for bankruptcy after plaintiffs were awarded 148 million dollars against him for speaking his mind, falsely, doing extreme harm to a salt of the earth mother and daughter. Just one specific example that may not be on the radar in your OZ world

Regards,
Bob

 

[Moko]

Selling and buying accordions does not happen in a highly competitive market. It is mostly a matter of supply and demand. The seller wishes to sell accordions for as much as buyers are willing to pay and buyers try to get the instruments for as little as a vendor will let the instrument go for. This happens much more with used accordions than with new ones, but even with new accordions, when there are multiple dealers for the same item each dealer tries to maximize profit, considering when the instrument is overpriced it will not sell, and when it is sold at a large discount the effort in obtaining the accordion doesn't pay off much...
For buyers especially of used accordions it is difficult to find a trustworthy seller that will only sell accordions that have been revised, repaired where needed and tuned to perfection... The buyer essentially wants an accordion that is as good as new, but many sellers do not wish to invest the time and effort in bringing the accordion up to that standard...
In short... it's a minefield!

So it would be a handy if you could do repairs yourself. As here in the UK I've seen accordions needing work advertised in well known music shops for silly prices. Sales people saying it probably just needs this or that but they don't play themselves. They have just taken them in part exchange for new box's. Minefield for sure