Miroslav1806
Member
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What do you think is the future for accordion in classical music?
- Thread starter Miroslav1806
- Start date
My guesses are looking ahead a few decades thinking about classical music and the West specifically rather than worldwide accordion/other genres in general:
Out
- Accordion orchestras
- Vaguely classical-ish sounding ditties written by accordionists from the 1960s/70s trying work around stradella bass limitations
- Technical stunts with players imitating the organ with 3 stave music
In
- Consolidation of position as a modern classical instrument rather than something just for enthusiasts
- Small ensembles with other instruments, especially strings
- Free bass
- Concertos for accordion and orchestra
- Contemporary music / commissions
- The accordion claiming historic clavier music as its own, especially the huge amount that is non-instrument specific
- Popularity as a young persons instrument
- Improved education resources for beginners and also more conservatoires offering the instrument.
That's where I personally think things are heading.
Out
- Accordion orchestras
- Vaguely classical-ish sounding ditties written by accordionists from the 1960s/70s trying work around stradella bass limitations
- Technical stunts with players imitating the organ with 3 stave music
In
- Consolidation of position as a modern classical instrument rather than something just for enthusiasts
- Small ensembles with other instruments, especially strings
- Free bass
- Concertos for accordion and orchestra
- Contemporary music / commissions
- The accordion claiming historic clavier music as its own, especially the huge amount that is non-instrument specific
- Popularity as a young persons instrument
- Improved education resources for beginners and also more conservatoires offering the instrument.
That's where I personally think things are heading.
Walker
🪗
I agree with much of @saundersbp on the In list.
My slant is that I think the accordion will become normalised as a classical instrument in Europe, in both forms: button system and piano system.
However, I think the accordionists repertoire will need to integrate more with the orchestral music of the day and the classical music that is popular in order to become normalised to the general public. We can see elements of tango being part of the classical scene and this is perhaps the opening for the accordion. The accordion won't run the show but will, at least, have a seat when called upon.
I think the piano accordion will 'look the part' in the classical scene as a solo instrument in the orchestral setting, but the button accordion will be the more capable tool. Will the broader classical scene care about this? I doubt it. In some ways the button accordion may need to work more within its capabilities whereas the piano accordion will need to achieve its full potential to be accepted into the classical scene.
I agree the accordion needs to claim the early keyboard music. This is where all classical accordions can shine brighter than anyone else.
I envisage the chromatic free bass will be important, though still in a number of variations. I can't see the systems reducing, but to muggles (non-accordion folk) it's irrelevant. I think Italy will be an exception where quint will be steady. Italy, Germany, France and Eastern Europe will be important on the European accordion stage. Sadly, I cannot see America making big efforts to lead the way in classical music. However, I think stradella bass will be important there.
I don't think the Out list will disappear fully as enthusiasts will always want accordion orchestra's, stradella standards and some super flashy performances. I think that maybe these things will have periods of being in and out of fashion to enthusiasts. However, mainstream classical they are not.
My slant is that I think the accordion will become normalised as a classical instrument in Europe, in both forms: button system and piano system.
However, I think the accordionists repertoire will need to integrate more with the orchestral music of the day and the classical music that is popular in order to become normalised to the general public. We can see elements of tango being part of the classical scene and this is perhaps the opening for the accordion. The accordion won't run the show but will, at least, have a seat when called upon.
I think the piano accordion will 'look the part' in the classical scene as a solo instrument in the orchestral setting, but the button accordion will be the more capable tool. Will the broader classical scene care about this? I doubt it. In some ways the button accordion may need to work more within its capabilities whereas the piano accordion will need to achieve its full potential to be accepted into the classical scene.
I agree the accordion needs to claim the early keyboard music. This is where all classical accordions can shine brighter than anyone else.
I envisage the chromatic free bass will be important, though still in a number of variations. I can't see the systems reducing, but to muggles (non-accordion folk) it's irrelevant. I think Italy will be an exception where quint will be steady. Italy, Germany, France and Eastern Europe will be important on the European accordion stage. Sadly, I cannot see America making big efforts to lead the way in classical music. However, I think stradella bass will be important there.
I don't think the Out list will disappear fully as enthusiasts will always want accordion orchestra's, stradella standards and some super flashy performances. I think that maybe these things will have periods of being in and out of fashion to enthusiasts. However, mainstream classical they are not.
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here's hoping
Certainly in my part of the world there are two biggish (40-50 kids in each) accordion programmes. Possibly here at least they already outnumber the retired gentlemen and ladies amusing themselves. (I look forward to being a retired gentlemen in a couple of decades!)
craigd
Active member
Your "in" list looks a lot like what happened in Canada from the late sixties through the eighties, perhaps a bit beyond. We had Joe Macerollo, then Joseph Petric, both still somewhat active, a number of lesser lights, many commisions, university and conservatory programs, recordings, performances, renown and anticipation of great things ahead. Things have been much quieter for the last couple of decades.
It's been a curious and uncertain progression, and will probably continue to be so.
I guess the lesson is that sustained progression is built on investing in the next generation on a big scale above all else as is happily happening round these parts.
PS - the Mounties did Canada proud today
Walker
🪗
I very often turn the dial of my vintage style, duck egg blue, DAB radio. Classic FM is particularly refreshing and health enhancing in the early morning light, I'd say. Yet, week in, week out I never once hear a classical accordionist performing a bit of the Goldberg Variations, or Bizet's Carmen. I do wish the people at the radio station would tune-in to the world of the modern free bass accordion occasionally. I have listened to Albeniz played on guitar countless times, so come on, cut us some slack. How about let an accordion sit at the front of the orchestra to lead the Karl Jenkins Benedictus? Or a little bit of Vivaldi... I'm not asking for much, am I?
Don't they have a listener request show? Maybe they need you to elucidate them.
Siegmund
Well-known member
My USA-centric answer:
I think it will always be a very small niche --- much like any other instrument that isn't a regular part of the orchestra, but is occasionally a soloist (harmonica, marimba, saxophone, alphorn.)
Yes, there's potential to introduce the accordion to a new generation that is not burdened by Lawrence Welk stereotypes.
On the other hand, even before the pandemic, we were losing orchestras every year, and the surviving orchestras were losing audience share. Classical music as a whole is not real healthy here.
This points toward solo and chamber music, rather than symphony+accordion, as the main way forward -- easier to get collaborators, easier to rent and fill a small concert space, etc.
As to saundersbp's list: The one big thing I disagree with him on is stradella vs. freebass. Yes, freebass is the more capable instrument... but it's also a vastly rarer and vastly more expensive instrument. In the US it, for all practical purposes, it does not exist. If the accordion makes a comeback in the US, it's still going to be Stradella that comes back. (In Leavenworth this past June, among the several dozen performing attendees, 2 were playing freebass; among the several dozen accordions on display for sale, 0 were freebass.)
In a way the 20th-century Russians did us a disservice, by pushing the idea that "real" serious accordion music requires freebass and requires a register change every 8 bars. I love the sound of that music... but the special features are not what will determine whether accordion survives. The Frosini sonatas, and the Chaikin concerto, are every bit as much serious new music as Semionov, Zolotarev, etc. are.
Only a tiny fraction of classical violin music uses the mute, or uses effects like playing very high on the G-string instead of low on the A-string to get a different tone color (our "register switches.") A lot of piano music uses the sustain pedal, but rather little of it uses the una corda pedal (at least not in a way that really matters.)
I think the way forward is good quality music that showcases interactions among the accordion and the established classical instruments.
For freebass, Gorka Hermosa is writing some impressive chamber music (but I don't know if anyone in the USA is listening to him.) People like Viviane Chassot are specializing in transcriptions of classical keyboard music. Again, doing very well in Europe. If either of them wants to do a USA tour, great - there will be US musicians who want to accompany them.
I think it will always be a very small niche --- much like any other instrument that isn't a regular part of the orchestra, but is occasionally a soloist (harmonica, marimba, saxophone, alphorn.)
Yes, there's potential to introduce the accordion to a new generation that is not burdened by Lawrence Welk stereotypes.
On the other hand, even before the pandemic, we were losing orchestras every year, and the surviving orchestras were losing audience share. Classical music as a whole is not real healthy here.
This points toward solo and chamber music, rather than symphony+accordion, as the main way forward -- easier to get collaborators, easier to rent and fill a small concert space, etc.
As to saundersbp's list: The one big thing I disagree with him on is stradella vs. freebass. Yes, freebass is the more capable instrument... but it's also a vastly rarer and vastly more expensive instrument. In the US it, for all practical purposes, it does not exist. If the accordion makes a comeback in the US, it's still going to be Stradella that comes back. (In Leavenworth this past June, among the several dozen performing attendees, 2 were playing freebass; among the several dozen accordions on display for sale, 0 were freebass.)
In a way the 20th-century Russians did us a disservice, by pushing the idea that "real" serious accordion music requires freebass and requires a register change every 8 bars. I love the sound of that music... but the special features are not what will determine whether accordion survives. The Frosini sonatas, and the Chaikin concerto, are every bit as much serious new music as Semionov, Zolotarev, etc. are.
Only a tiny fraction of classical violin music uses the mute, or uses effects like playing very high on the G-string instead of low on the A-string to get a different tone color (our "register switches.") A lot of piano music uses the sustain pedal, but rather little of it uses the una corda pedal (at least not in a way that really matters.)
I think the way forward is good quality music that showcases interactions among the accordion and the established classical instruments.
For freebass, Gorka Hermosa is writing some impressive chamber music (but I don't know if anyone in the USA is listening to him.) People like Viviane Chassot are specializing in transcriptions of classical keyboard music. Again, doing very well in Europe. If either of them wants to do a USA tour, great - there will be US musicians who want to accompany them.
Thanks, very interesting to get a USA perspective and like so many other areas is a very different picture.
petch
Well-known member
This is from the perspective of an adult learner that doesn't know much about the world of classical music
I think Siegmund has some valid points about the accessibility of free bass. Even in Europe where free bass does 'exist' and instruments can be bought, they're prohibitively expensive. That's if you can even find one readily available and not on a 6-18 month wait new from factory. I know Saunders is working to change that somewhat here in the UK but I don't think we'll ever see entry level free bass instruments as readily available and affordable as, say, a violin
The next issue is the availability of tutors. I'm really lucky to have one local to me but if I lived 30 miles away from where I do I'd be stuck with online resources. Fine for an adult maybe, but I don't see zoom lessons working for young children
I think Siegmund has some valid points about the accessibility of free bass. Even in Europe where free bass does 'exist' and instruments can be bought, they're prohibitively expensive. That's if you can even find one readily available and not on a 6-18 month wait new from factory. I know Saunders is working to change that somewhat here in the UK but I don't think we'll ever see entry level free bass instruments as readily available and affordable as, say, a violin
The next issue is the availability of tutors. I'm really lucky to have one local to me but if I lived 30 miles away from where I do I'd be stuck with online resources. Fine for an adult maybe, but I don't see zoom lessons working for young children
To follow up on Siegmund and Petch. And I quote:
"So how popular is classical music in the U.S.? According to billboard/Nielsen, classical music had an overall 1% share of the market in 2019, or 12th out of 12 genres. This is the least popular music genre well behind the top four genres: R&B/hip-hop, rock & roll, pop, country, and even behind children’s music."
So basically, in the US the future of the accordion in classical music is a moot point. I think this is a shame because maybe with some accordion, classical music could survive....
Anyway, I was serious about the listeners' requests: (and you can listen online from the UK or Scotland). I'm not interested, but here it is:
"Host Ruthanne Bessman plays listener's classical requests and.....
Listeners can submit their requests online (below) or call in during the show. "Classics By Request" can be heard on the NPR News & Music Network Saturdays starting at 10 a.m."
"So how popular is classical music in the U.S.? According to billboard/Nielsen, classical music had an overall 1% share of the market in 2019, or 12th out of 12 genres. This is the least popular music genre well behind the top four genres: R&B/hip-hop, rock & roll, pop, country, and even behind children’s music."
So basically, in the US the future of the accordion in classical music is a moot point. I think this is a shame because maybe with some accordion, classical music could survive....
Anyway, I was serious about the listeners' requests: (and you can listen online from the UK or Scotland). I'm not interested, but here it is:
"Host Ruthanne Bessman plays listener's classical requests and.....
Listeners can submit their requests online (below) or call in during the show. "Classics By Request" can be heard on the NPR News & Music Network Saturdays starting at 10 a.m."
Walker
🪗
America has such rich musical traditions. I think of the country music or jazz music, rhythm & blues, gospel and even Cajun music to name but a few styles. American classical music is equally impressive. We just need to listen to Gershwin, Copland or Barber to get a hint of its really beautiful music. America at this moment prefers stradella bass, and that's okay with me. I love stradella bass. If the accordion is played in any of the styles above then that alone would make me happy. In my opinion if America chooses to rediscover it's free bass heritage then it will do very well indeed. However, I noticed several new free bass accordions for sale in a famous American accordion shop recently, both chromatic converters and quint converters. I suspect beneath the surface there are many enthusiasts, young and old, who play a variety of music, including classical. It can be a wonderful hobby and that chimes with me, as I am also really just an enthusiast that tries a bit of this and a bit of that as a side hobby to Scottish music.
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"I suspect beneath the surface there are many enthusiasts, young and old, who play a variety of music, including classical." It's true! I've met plenty of enthusiasts, young and old, but as of yet, none who play classical or free bass. It's been said that there are more non-English (or bilingual) speaking accordion (includes diatonic) players in the US than English speaking. I don't know if this is true. Unfortunately I do not speak Spanish or French (creole).
Interestingly enough, at the local farmers market on Saturday, there was an (older) gentleman singing Italian songs while playing an (English) concertina. Fascinating. I asked him if he had any tarantellas. Unfortunately not. Gotta get to know this guy.
Interestingly enough, at the local farmers market on Saturday, there was an (older) gentleman singing Italian songs while playing an (English) concertina. Fascinating. I asked him if he had any tarantellas. Unfortunately not. Gotta get to know this guy.
Siegmund
Well-known member
A 1% market share for classical wouldn't worry me too much. That's still a good sized market with 300 million potential buyers. I am a lot less worried about the availability of classical recordings, than I am about live performances. (Indeed, even as the number of live performances has been suffering this past couple decades, all kinds of obscure recordings are now easy to find thanks to the Internet.)
It's at least plausible, given how widespread the diatonics are in Spanish culture. If it's not true yet, it probably will be in another decade or two as the last of the folks who learned as kids during the post-WWII boom die.
The "bilingual" category is also going to swallow up many of the star chromatic players (just like it would have swallowed up the Dieros and Frosini and a lot of Czech and Polish polka bands in the midwest in the past) as well as many of the dealers and repairers, who either learned their trade overseas or have to be able to speak to the factory today.
It's at least plausible, given how widespread the diatonics are in Spanish culture. If it's not true yet, it probably will be in another decade or two as the last of the folks who learned as kids during the post-WWII boom die.
The "bilingual" category is also going to swallow up many of the star chromatic players (just like it would have swallowed up the Dieros and Frosini and a lot of Czech and Polish polka bands in the midwest in the past) as well as many of the dealers and repairers, who either learned their trade overseas or have to be able to speak to the factory today.
I don't know much about Classic FM as we are on Long Wave R4 but have a listen to BBC R3 (BBC Sounds app) or even better Radio France (there is an app too if DAB can't find it). Accordion gets a good airing.
Couldn't agree more! You can live on microwave meals but real food is so much more nourishing and inspiring!
And playing with other people is the most nourishing and inspiring, imho.
If you don't consider the fact of time of origin, you could say that about any piece of existing music that you play. So therefore the only non confining music is what you have written yourself. This is an interesting line of enquiry. I feel the most free and fun when I play my own music. Unfortunately I only have one tune that I play consistently in public. Others here have been more blessed. Maybe if I spent as much time composing as I do learning existing scores I would have more. Something to think about.
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