Treble key rods contacting register block

[AlicePalace]

Hi there. I have 3 treble keys that click when I play them and I figured I needed to replace the felt damping under the keys. But today when I opened up the treble, I discovered that for 2 of the keys, the problem is that the rod is hitting against a part of the register block. Pics attached to show this (two are of the same key). So … what’s the best fix in this situation? Replace the felt damping under the keys and hope the added height will resolve the contact issue? Bend the rods? Add a tiny bit of felt to the rod to dampen the click? Nothing on Accordion Revival seems to address this so I’m looking for your expert guidance. Thanks!

 

[Gonk]

My approach would be to use two pairs of pliers or torciferri to bend the arms. You can make the job easier by trimming that extra bit of metal on the mounting piece that holds the register switch mechanism. They can either be bent to the side, or the bend point at which they head down toward the fondo can be relocated further down the arm, or a combination of the two.

One thing, though - if you do, in fact, need some felt under the keys, you may find that adding that does solve the problem, as the keys will not descend so far. That might be how this was originally designed. So you might want to inspect that first.

 

[AlicePalace]

My approach would be to use two pairs of pliers or torciferri to bend the arms. You can make the job easier by trimming that extra bit of metal on the mounting piece that holds the register switch mechanism. They can either be bent to the side, or the bend point at which they head down toward the fondo can be relocated further down the arm, or a combination of the two.

One thing, though - if you do, in fact, need some felt under the keys, you may find that adding that does solve the problem, as the keys will not descend so far. That might be how this was originally designed. So you might want to inspect that first.

Thank you for this. Are the arms easy to bend? Also, I have yet to figure out how to access the felt under the keys. Is this done by taking the keys (and the register block) out, or do I access this some other way?

 

[Gonk]

Yes, the register mechanism would come out first, then you'd remove the keyboard axle, then the keys. I recommend blue painter's tape over the keys as you remove the axle, so they don't fly off.

The arms are relatively soft (aluminum) but it's important to hold them firmly so the bend does not end up in the wrong place or mess up the pivot point. Usually, once you are finished, you will want to re-set the pallets (with wax) so they sit flush with the fondo.

 

[debra]

Bending the arms should not be too difficult (they are aluminium, not steel). The pallet is a bit too far forward already, so when you bend the arms it will likely end up better aligned with the other pallets.

 

[AlicePalace]

Bending the arms should not be too difficult (they are aluminium, not steel). The pallet is a bit too far forward already, so when you bend the arms it will likely end up better aligned with the other pallets.

Thank you! (I believe in the picture I was depressing the key, which would be why it appears too far forward)

 

[AlicePalace]

Yes, the register mechanism would come out first, then you'd remove the keyboard axle, then the keys. I recommend blue painter's tape over the keys as you remove the axle, so they don't fly off.

The arms are relatively soft (aluminum) but it's important to hold them firmly so the bend does not end up in the wrong place or mess up the pivot point. Usually, once you are finished, you will want to re-set the pallets (with wax) so they sit flush with the fondo.

Thanks for the tip! I have blue painter’s tape at the ready to prevent keys from flying .

 

[Dingo40]

AP,
On thinking your problem over, it seems to me you will need to either renew the padding under all the keys or to bend all the pallet levers as padding or bending only some will likely result in an uneven (out of alignment) keyboard.

 

[AlicePalace]

AP,
On thinking your problem over, it seems to me you will need to either renew the padding under all the keys or to bend all the pallet levers as padding or bending only some will likely result in an uneven (out of alignment) keyboard.

I am at this moment trying to remove the keys but have encountered a problem: I can’t remove the spindle. It looks like there’s a little port to access it, but there’s just a short, sharp nub sticking out when I remove the cap. Pliers don’t seem to work at all — they just slide right off.

 

[Gonk]

The nub can be hard to grip. Sometimes there is corrosion making it more difficult to pull. Usually, needlenose pliers are enough to get it started, and you can use a drill chuck per the instructions at AccordionRevival from that point forward. Sometimes vice grips are useful. In very bad cases, you need to remove some wood in order to get a better grip, and patch it later. You can also go in from the other side, and make a small to tap a rod into, in order to push the axle out. You may need to grind the tip of a cheap pair of pliers to make a custom tool.

(Or, of course, let that sleeping dog lie)

 

[AlicePalace]

Update: I have neither removed the axle nor bent any arms because I am *just* wise enough to know when to quit, LOL. I know this will make you all faint, but I have wrapped a small bit of duct tape around the spot on each arm that is coming in contact with the register block, and this seems to provide enough padding to stop the noisy tapping. I know this is not kosher and I’m picturing you all like sports fans whose team has just bungled a big play (head in hands, groaning loudly) . But in my very amateur hands, the other options just were too risky. I do wish I could replace the felt under the keys, but unless I go in from the front (and I don’t actually think I have room to do that), it’s simply not a possibility for me. TGIF!

 

[Dingo40]

I have wrapped a small bit of duct tape around the spot on each arm that is coming in contact with the register block, and this seems to provide enough padding to stop the noisy tapping.

Very sensible and quite adequate: well done!

 

[henry d]

Update: I have neither removed the axle nor bent any arms because I am *just* wise enough to know when to quit, LOL. I know this will make you all faint, but I have wrapped a small bit of duct tape around the spot on each arm that is coming in contact with the register block, and this seems to provide enough padding to stop the noisy tapping. I know this is not kosher and I’m picturing you all like sports fans whose team has just bungled a big play (head in hands, groaning loudly) . But in my very amateur hands, the other options just were too risky. I do wish I could replace the felt under the keys, but unless I go in from the front (and I don’t actually think I have room to do that), it’s simply not a possibility for me. TGIF!

Great practical solution.

The proper, professional (remove the keys and replace the felt) requires quite a bit of tinkering which is fine if you like tinkering or have (or want) experience. For your first try the removal and reinsertion of the rod the keys pivot on can be a bit agonizing. Getting the correct felt of the proper thickness is sort of challenging in itself- and of course you'd need real felt made for such an application or it will rapidly compress in use.

There are some keyboards with an adjustment screw to adjust the travel. "Just twist your way to perfection..." Sounds great, though in practice one discovers that a eighth of a turn in or out effects a large change in the travel. This isn't one of those in any case.

You've got to think for a bit and ask yourself what changed to make it start clacking in the first place. Absent damage which bent up the bracket the key shaft is striking the only other answer is a change in the shaft motion range. It'd take a crippling amount of wear at the pivot (which would almost certainly cause the pallet to leak either all the time or intermittently and surely cause all the keys to be sloppy with similar wear) so that can be ruled out. The key hasn't been bent up (since it is still level with the rest) which could increase travel. The culprit then is almost certainly the felt under the key compressing with time just as you figure. There wasn't a lot of clearance there to begin with (nor did it need much- just enough not to touch...).

Trying to snake a thin strip of something under the key in situ to make up for the clearance caused by the compressed felt really is voodoo repair. If nothing else, very slight changes in thickness there can lead to pretty substantial changes in how far the pallet opens so you could easily wind up with a stuffy note or just a mess.

A strip of tape on the back of the offending metal cushions the clack, should leave enough clearance for the pallet (easily checked), and if it wears out in a year or so of use, can easily be redone in minutes.

Frowned upon by purists but eminently reasonable- and "wise". Congratulations from my point of view.

 

[AlicePalace]

Great practical solution.

The proper, professional (remove the keys and replace the felt) requires quite a bit of tinkering which is fine if you like tinkering or have (or want) experience. For your first try the removal and reinsertion of the rod the keys pivot on can be a bit agonizing. Getting the correct felt of the proper thickness is sort of challenging in itself- and of course you'd need real felt made for such an application or it will rapidly compress in use.

There are some keyboards with an adjustment screw to adjust the travel. "Just twist your way to perfection..." Sounds great, though in practice one discovers that a eighth of a turn in or out effects a large change in the travel. This isn't one of those in any case.

You've got to think for a bit and ask yourself what changed to make it start clacking in the first place. Absent damage which bent up the bracket the key shaft is striking the only other answer is a change in the shaft motion range. It'd take a crippling amount of wear at the pivot (which would almost certainly cause the pallet to leak either all the time or intermittently and surely cause all the keys to be sloppy with similar wear) so that can be ruled out. The key hasn't been bent up (since it is still level with the rest) which could increase travel. The culprit then is almost certainly the felt under the key compressing with time just as you figure. There wasn't a lot of clearance there to begin with (nor did it need much- just enough not to touch...).

Trying to snake a thin strip of something under the key in situ to make up for the clearance caused by the compressed felt really is voodoo repair. If nothing else, very slight changes in thickness there can lead to pretty substantial changes in how far the pallet opens so you could easily wind up with a stuffy note or just a mess.

A strip of tape on the back of the offending metal cushions the clack, should leave enough clearance for the pallet (easily checked), and if it wears out in a year or so of use, can easily be redone in minutes.

Frowned upon by purists but eminently reasonable- and "wise". Congratulations from my point of view.

Thanks very much, Henry. I really like this little accordion (this is my 26/48 Giulietti), and I would be quite upset if I inadvertently ruined it. I mean, I didn’t realize that there were varying felt thicknesses, so yeah, I do believe I’ve dodged a bullet and will leave well enough alone as far as the keyboard felt goes! For now, I’ll stick (haha) with the easily-replaced strip of duct tape.

 

[boxplayer4000]

Clicking keys.

AlicePalace: Two things have changed in your accordion to cause the clicking sound of metal meeting metal. The felt/leather under the pallets has compressed and the pads under the keys themselves have also compressed. In my experience the pallets are by far the most likely culprit. A rough and ready way of assessing the amount of compression which has taken place is to look at the lowest and highest treble keys. When they accordion was new the keys would likely be level with the keyboard ends. In your picture of the finger pointing at the keyboard axle it is temptingly close to showing that the top key is in fact rising away from the keyboard end. It’s also worth remembering that the end keys, being relatively unused, probably underestimate the amount of pallet felt/leather compression.

I don’t believe you have to remove the keys to make a repair. The pallets are conveniently ‘fixed’ with wax which can easily be removed and replaced and removal of the coupler mechanism will allow better access to the pallets serving the black keys. Careful selection of the correct thickness of felt/leather is crucial. The only ‘special’ tools needed are a pair of bending irons to make final adjustments to the key rods.

It may be possible to make a short term repair to the offending keys by doing some bending but if you consider your accordion a good one and intend to keep it then maybe the time has come to consider the full keyboard overhaul. You’ll be rewarded with a keyboard which is better and quieter to play.

 

[Dingo40]

BP,

In my experience the pallets are by far the most likely culprit.

I'm a little confused.
Some pallet rods are hitting an object (the coupler bracket) on the upswing.
So, how will adjusting the pallets fix that?
I can see fixing the padding under the keyboard helping.
I can see bending the pallet rods helping with the clicking (but probably disturbing the key top alignment)
But it seems the expedient of simply padding the affected rods with plastic tape is the simplest and least intrusive fix of all.

 

[debra]

Update: I have neither removed the axle nor bent any arms because I am *just* wise enough to know when to quit, LOL. I know this will make you all faint, but I have wrapped a small bit of duct tape around the spot on each arm that is coming in contact with the register block, and this seems to provide enough padding to stop the noisy tapping. I know this is not kosher and I’m picturing you all like sports fans whose team has just bungled a big play (head in hands, groaning loudly) . But in my very amateur hands, the other options just were too risky. I do wish I could replace the felt under the keys, but unless I go in from the front (and I don’t actually think I have room to do that), it’s simply not a possibility for me. TGIF!

There is one thing you could do, looking at the first photo. The arm is mostly hitting the bracket that sticks out beyond the horizontal plate under the register sliders. Given where the two screws/bolts are that bracket doesn't need to be as long as it is. You could saw off the part that sticks out and then the arm will already "almost" not touch the bracket any more. More often than not mechanical accordion repair is more like general diy work than a something that requires specialist training. Common sense always helps a lot.

 

[AlicePalace]

@boxplayer4000, thank you for your thoughtful response. For sure there is some noise from the pallets when keys are released, but the pronounced clicking/tapping that I was trying to solve for was happening when I depressed the keys in question — only a couple of them. I initially thought the sound was coming from the bottom of the key hitting a bare spot (missing felt?), but when I opened it and carefully observed what was happening with those keys, it became apparent the arms of those keys were hitting the register block. Hence, my duct tape fix. I think others are correct that replacing the felt so it’s “taller” would likely provide enough clearance to solve the tapping, but that’ll have to wait (as will rehabbing the pallets).

 

[AlicePalace]

There is one thing you could do, looking at the first photo. The arm is mostly hitting the bracket that sticks out beyond the horizontal plate under the register sliders. Given where the two screws/bolts are that bracket doesn't need to be as long as it is. You could saw off the part that sticks out and then the arm will already "almost" not touch the bracket any more. More often than not mechanical accordion repair is more like general diy work than a something that requires specialist training. Common sense always helps a lot.

Yes, I suppose I could try that. Maybe a little spot Dremel grinding on the register block (removed from the box, of course). I’ve been hesitant to make permanent changes, but I think that’s a small enough change that it wouldn’t be too bad.

For the picture where the arm is hitting the pin behind one of the register switches, do you think I can shorten the pin a tiny bit (cut a little bit off) without risking failure of the switch? I tried to file the pin a bit to shorten it and soften its edges, but without much success. I have a feeling it will poke through the duct tape in only a short time and the clicking will be back for that key.

 

[henry d]

Yes, I suppose I could try that. Maybe a little spot Dremel grinding on the register block (removed from the box, of course). I’ve been hesitant to make permanent changes, but I think that’s a small enough change that it wouldn’t be too bad.

For the picture where the arm is hitting the pin behind one of the register switches, do you think I can shorten the pin a tiny bit (cut a little bit off) without risking failure of the switch? I tried to file the pin a bit to shorten it and soften its edges, but without much success. I have a feeling it will poke through the duct tape in only a short time and the clicking will be back for that key.

Cutting off the end of the offending piece would be a solution.

Before I tried it I'd work the mechanism for the shifts several times with the end of a screwdriver or pencil eraser end on the offending pin and anything that slides on it. You want to see if it is indeed a bit longer than is needed (it looks like it might be). If you decide that there is nothing risked by abbreviating it the next question is whether you can do it in place.

Dremel with cut off wheel or grinder? Is there room to get in there acccurately without hitting something else? Can you adequtely catch all the fine metal debris that will result? If it needs to be pulled to get at it properly do you have the good fitting screwdrivers needed to loosen the "pretty tight been there for decades" screws holding the mechanism in place?

Surely doable and probably a lot faster than disassembling the keyboard.

On the other hand, it the tape does give up could you just use a more durable cloth tape, or a thin bit of leather glued on over the clacking key shaft? ( If you go there, hold a strip of whatever you are thinking of using in place while you depress the key to ensure it's not so thick that it prevents th pallet from adequately opening.) I'd surely wait to see just how long the tape lasts before doing anything else.

Is it working now? Play on and be happy!