The Rarity of Smaller (48 bass?) Musette Accordions

[LilacLeaf]

Greetings,

I love the sound of the bigger boxes, (I once had a huge Philharmonic, amazing sound!) but I think for my style and needs a musette 48 bass or so will be best in the long run. I know about musette boxes being harder to come by in the US, but overall I am surprised at how few 48 bass, or just smaller (60 bass, 72?) accordions in general there are that aren't 2-3k, except for German made like Hohner and Weltmeister. I tend to prefer the richer tone of Italian reeds, at least so far this is what I have been exposed to, and often find the German reeds to be brighter which I don't like as much. Can anyone offer some insight here please, my main question being why are 48 bass accordions other than German (and now Chinese) so rare?

Thanks,

Peter.

 

[george garside]

depends what you mean by 48 bass?! there are in fact 2 48 bass setups - the common 8x6 which limits the range of keys available and the rarer 12x4 which offers a larger range of keys but minus 7th an diminished chords. BOth are compromises but I find the 12x4 more useful than the 3x6. the 12x4 is in fact a 60 bass minus the 7th and diminished. I am not bothered about the diminished but would like the 7ths but 60 bass boxes seem pretty rare.

My main gripe about 48 bass boxes of either layout is that most are only 2 voice with perhaps a few 3 voice ( I have a 3 voice mmm musette long 48 casali).

What would probably suite many people, particulary folk/trad/jolly tune players would be a 4 voice 48 bass box but as long as a 48 bass is seen as a 'starter' instrument rather than an ' I don't want a bigger bugger ' instrument the assumption/pressure hat one must continue to 'upgrade' towards a proper box, I. e. 120 bass mult1coupler double casotto etc etc will prevent manufacturers form taking a chance on 48 bass 'for life' boxes.

There is absolutely no reason why it cant be done as eg Paolo Soprani make extremely high quality 4 voice musette 2 row button accordions/melodeons.

george

 

[Nuuksu]

Smaller 3 voice musette boxes aren't very rare at all, if You play CBA You can easily get small boxes. Most of French accordionists play 4 row CBA-s, many are 96 or 80 bass models. Bass system that french players use are little different, seventh and diminished seventh chords are combined - seventh chord row is absent and dim7 chord row is shifted down by perfect fifth so Gdim7(E G Bb) becomes C7 and can be used also as Gdim7. Small PA can't squeeze in many notes on right side keyboard without increasing dimensions but CBA can. If You don't like digital You can still compare Roland FR-1x and FR-1xb dimensions and available note range.

 

[TomBR]

But is Lilacleaf talking pianobox or chromatic - otherwise we're "comparing apples and pears" as the saying goes. I'd guess PA (USA based?) and from the viewpoint of a player of long experience.
Changing systems is an option that many would not want to consider.

 

[george garside]

nuccsu has ,perhaps inadvertently, hit the nail on the head! He obviously considers 96 and 80 bass boxes to be small! The originator of this thread was talking about a shortage of 48 bass boxes and I was making the point that there are many players who would like a powerful 4 voice 48 or 60 bass box, particularly folk/trad players who would probably view even 80 bass as massive, heavy and cumbersome to cart about

george

 

[Nuuksu]

Roland FR-1xb is 72 bass box. As TomBR mentioned there is difference what system player uses. System sets its limits FR-1xb CBA has 37 notes vs FR-1x PA has 26 notes - quite big difference. 26 notes is quite small, it can be played of course but may be little limiting, certainly they are usually intended for beginners or childrens, yet another reason for reducing reed sets to cut price down. To get more reed sets custom made instrument is needed. 37 notes is on the other hand quite big range for such a small box. Thats why I have seen more small CBAs than PAs One more important point - box base dimensions are determined by bass reed blocks 48 bass box has full set of bass reeds - Weltmeister Perle 26/48/II/3 PA dimensions are H332 x D182 mm and Weltmeister Romance 60/72/II/3 CBA dimensions are same only difference is that it has 72 basses and more notes on right hand. I hope it helps a little

 

[OuijaBoard]

The reason they are rare is quite simply a historically blinkered, rigid set of of idees recues and prejudices in accordion-land in which bigger is equated with better, and added layers of features (such as musette, or premium reeds, or having 4 and 4 rows rather than three on a CBA) are stereotyped as going with "bigger," not smaller. It's absolutely asinine. Mind, I'm not saying that big accordions are asinine. I'm saying that blinkered mentality that consigns smaller with kiddie-ish and bare-bones, and bigger with seriousness and virtuosity, is asinine, and also kind of comical. I have a theory that it is also a significant factor in the unpopularity of the accordion. I don't think it's a coincidence that we currently seem to be seeing a bit of a hopeful resurgence of interest in the instrument at a time when makers are at last starting to get it that there is a market out there for compact, light unisonorics with a minimum of 30 treble notes and for CBAs 4 to 5 rows, available with top-quality components and best-quality reeds.

It is mind-boggling that it's taken all this time for a maker---Weltmeister---to grok that you could give PA players 30 treble notes and basses featuring all 12 tonic tones in a box the same weight/dimensions as the frustrating 26-treble PA. (And yes, the Weltmeister Rubin 2-voice and Juwel 3-voice are some of their hottest sellers. Now if only Weltmeister would do the same for a small CBA with 4 or 5 treble rows rather than 3.) Not that I would want a 48-bass box, unless it was a 12X4 config. And if you're going to go 12X4, you may as well go 60. It won't make the chassis any bigger.

As a side cultural note, musette boxes with 48 basses seem to have been a bit more available to the Mexican market. Unisonoric Tex-Mex conjunto players often use either no basses or 48, even with multiple reeds on the treble side.

 

[Deleted member 48]

The market for small accordions is young accordion starters.
Conservatory student numbers are growing, and very young starters even more. I think mini chromatic accordions might even further fuel this trend.

Later on they can buy a standard size 120 or 96 bass accordion.

 

[OuijaBoard]

[[[The market for small accordions is young accordion starters.]]]

That is the old, narrower view. The forward-looking, wider view, is that lots of unisonoric folk, world music, blues, Americana, and pop players yearn for high-grade unisonoric instruments with top-quality reeds and enough treble and bass tonic notes and (for CBAs) treble rows, of light enough weight and compact enough dimensions, to be able to do lots with musically, while playing something they can move and interact with like a fiddler rather than like a moving man with a moving van. The idea isn't either/or. The idea is, the smaller and more compact end of the spectrum has been overlooked as a serious musician's option worthy of optimization, rich features, and engineering innovations to augment volume, projection, and even (for those who care, which I don't) cassotto-like sonic qualities that don't add to weight/bulk. That, I do believe, is changing for the better. There's some exciting and interesting stuff going on out there.

 

[Deleted member 48]

Believe me, I'm on your side in the search for mini CBAs.

They will attract more accordion starters.
But niche markets need some time to grow.

I think the AKKO company did a good job, see the Gennady Vetrov YT videos with the blue and yellow mini bayans.
France has the Maugin Marionito and Bonifassi mini euterpe models.
More will follow like Van der Aa superb etc

 

[OuijaBoard]

Ha, my "small" includes up to the 34/72-ish size. The other feature we need in our enriched smaller boxes, is the all-important 2 registers in the bass for lightening as needed, if there are 4 bass voices. Another frustrating thing about CBA makers---they won't give you bass registers until you're up there in the 96b range, not good, and a weird double standard versus PA makers, most or many of whom will do 2 bass registers in a 72-bass LMM. This is a big problem with the Saltarelle Bourroche---at $6500 they won't give you a couple of bass registers. Same with the more economical Weltmeister 72-bass LMM. the Fantini 31 treble/72 bass LMM CBA is just about the only small CBA I see with 2 bass registers, that and the Cooperativa Jolly LMM 72 bass. I've seen no bass register in any 60bass CBA available. That breakthrough in optimized small unisonorics will be another sign the makers are getting it.

 

[OuijaBoard]

For the OP:

I'm assuming you are referencing PAs? Every time you see a 60-bass out there with three voices in the treble, like an LMM, chances are the maker will give you a special order to have your three voice treble config'd as an MMM musette. Weltmeister alone does two very light, compact 60-bass PA models with three voices in the treble, the Kristall (standard key width) and the Juwel (slightly slimmer keys for a slightly smaller/lighter box). For sure, you can order those models in MMM with the wetness to your taste.

 

[Deleted member 48]

I also have the impression for many decades the PA production was priority. And received more attention and budget for innovation and top quality.

Cba was the ugly little duck...
But times have changed.

I am afraid even today Castelfidardo accordion management consider smaller accordions as being toys for children. A commercial mistake in my humble opinion.
If it's a small box it has got to be a toy, you know.
And we are not going to spend time and budget on toys.

A whole different universe is the world of top quality concertinas and mini concertinas.

 

[george garside]

and 2 NS 3 Row 'diatonics melodeons and button accordions which have a huge price span but not that much of a size/ bulk span and everything form one to 4 voices
george

 

[LilacLeaf]

Well lots of activity here! So, to clarify, I am talking piano accordion. I realize button accordions may have more versatility, but I have such familiarity with the piano keyboard I am sticking with PA and accept it's limitations. One of my goals in playing a PA is to increase my piano skills in general, so this makes sense for me. I am unsure as to whether a MMM in the treble is needed for me, although I certainly wouldn't mind. However I have heard an MM accordion that sounded so much better to me than a MMM box, so much really depends on the reed material and alloy quality. In my limited experience the German reeds tend to be brighter in a way I don't care for, but my experience is very limited. If I could have a 48 (or maybe60, or 72?) bass PA with maybe one bass switch, and a MM in the treble that sounded like the Philharmonic I once had I would be ecstatic. The Philharmonic was a 120 bass, LMMH, double tone chamber, so having a smaller box sound that way is unlikely! I did have a 4 x 12 Titano LMM for a while, with one switch for turning off the L, but the MM was always on. I maybe should have kept that one, but I do like being able to have just the one treble reed sometimes. At any rate, my post was about the seeming dearth of 48 bass PA with at least MM in the treble, that is Italian or has equivalent quality reeds. Do any of the Weltmeisters come close, or are they all bright like the few I've heard and the Hohners as well?

 

[OuijaBoard]

Ah, OK, so MM would be okay for you? Well, youre in clover, because there is no dearth of delightful Italian MM boxes in 48 bass, 60 bass, and lightweight 72 bass boxes.

The thing about 48 bass PAs is they often have only 26 treble. I know plenty of talented folk musicians do lots of neat things with 26, but I really think one wants a minimum of 30 treble. However, there are getting to be quite a few small PAs out there with 30 treble, including Italian ones. The Brandoni Piccolo is an MM that weighs only 13 pounds and has a lovely tone. No register switch though, so youd have MM all the time with no single-reed option. But they are super-nice.


The Pigini Preludio P30 is another one, sweet as can be, and will switch from wet to dry--


The Allodi store in the UK offers a wonderful 30/72 made by Fantini, and you can also see it on the Fantini site, the Fantini SP/30/T.

There are others out there, certainly.



YES, most Weltmeisters do have that bright German sound you asked about. Ive heard of people getting special orders with Italian reeds, but recently posted a query here RE whether anyone had played/heard one, and it got no replies, so . . . :roll

 

[george garside]

The market for small accordions is young accordion starters.
Conservatory student numbers are growing, and very young starters even more. I think mini chromatic accordions might even further fuel this trend.

Later on they can buy a standard size 120 or 96 bass accordion.

.

Stephen, whilst you are probably correct in terms of conservatory students there is an equal and possibly greater number of serious accordionist whose desire to play in a conservatory only applies to the one built onto their house, or somebody elses house.

48 bass boxes are widely played in the world of folk/trad music and used by many ceilidh band leaders. Also by the myriad of players playing for their own pleasure or to entertain others , maybe self taught or maybe having proper lessons - I have taught many people who have no desire or need to go larger than 48 bass.

There are also many 120 bass players who as age and arthritis or whatever catches up with them want /need a smaller box to keep playing but would like one with 3 or 4 voices and quality construction and reeds.

Some struggle on with big -( I wont use the term full size as it has strong inference that anything smaller is not for proper players )- boxes because they have had it bred into them that one must have 120 basses to be able to play properly!

A top quality 48 bass as I have outlined will provide as much volume and tone as larger box and amplification does the same for either. Quite oftern as an arthritic 75 year old I use a simple 8 bass 3 voice mml top quality 2 row DG melodeon if playing all night for ceilidh dances. Its range of keys and bass chords is indeed limited but it has, if anything, more grunt than many full size 120 bass boxes and loads of rhythm and lift to make the dancers move without effort.

Yes there is for many reasons a definite market for good quality 48 bass piano or continental boxes.

george