dot readers v by earists v by memory

[Soulsaver]

Yep, words help - I sometimes have to create a silly lyric incorporating the title of a Morris tune, to help me bring it to the surface when it's needed. E.g "Lucy of Lyne had a very good time..."

I think you'd better stop there... Anyanka :lol:

 

[george garside]

I would probably be struck off by the powers that be if I quoted some of the words I use as aid memoirs

george

 

[Pippa]

I would probably be struck off by the powers that be if I quoted some of the words I use as aid memoirs

george

Watching closely

 

[hatless]

It's interesting that whether we're dot folk or ear folk, we tend to regard the other lot with some awe as possessors of an incomprehensible skill. In my case, I can't play well by ear, but I'm pretty good with dots. Someone who is very good with dots does the same as me but a bit better. But someone who can hear a piece once and just play it - how do you do that? That's not just better than me, it's completely impossible in the world I live in.

I remember a book about piano playing (by Louis Kentner in case you're interested), in which the author says that when learning a piece for the first time, a Beethoven sonata, say, the pianist should read it through a few times, then put the score down, go to the piano and play it as best they can without the music in front of them. To me, that's as baffling as saying they should play without taking their hands out of their pockets.

I guess we're all here because we want to learn, and if we will only try we might all be surprised at what we can do.

 

[Anyanka]

There's an autistic artist, Stephen Winchester, who can draw entire cityscapes from memory, accurately. To me that's a similar feat to playing long strings of notes correctly after one hearing.

Of course we all have different preferences of learning. If you haven't ever tested yours: try it, it's useful. I scored 90% or thereabouts on visual memory feats, but only 15%ish on auditory processes. That's why notation is a quicker "way in" for me. Tweed sometimes makes us learn new tunes by ear, listening and repeating one phrase at a time. It's good practice, but I can only retain a small portion of a tune that way: added phrases push out the previously practised ones!

I don't see one kind of memory/learning as superior to the other - it just helps to know your own preferences and strengths.

 

[george garside]

Those who can hear a tune once and then play it have a remarkable 'gift'. Most by ear players including myself have to work at it! I think that the important thing is to learn how to listen analytically i.e to listen to the detail of whats going on as opposed to the ''sitting back and just listening for pleasure'' sort of thing that most of us do most of the time.

The other important ingredient is '' humability'' i.e. once a tune can be hummed or whistled it is firmly implanted, stored or whatever in the brain so provided you have the essential high level of automatic manual dexterity on whatever instrument the process of sending it down the arm is not greatly different to sending it to the gob! If however you have to think about how to play a note 3 higher, 4 lower or whatever its time to go back to the drawing board an work on scales and other handy exercises so the fingers find their own way just as the gob does.

that's my theory anyway!

george

 

[Anyanka]

Hummability is all very well... but when one is trying to play Piazzolla, or one of Bach's Inventions (or, for that matter, something "easy" by Chopin), one's hummingability is severely tested...

 

[george garside]

Indeed! which might have something to do with 'byearists' being more numerous (I was going to say 'common' but that could be misconstrued) amongst plaayers of traditional and folk music. That doesn't mean to say that byearing classical music is impossible and I'm sure there must be many extremely good blind players around to prove the point

George.

 

[Glenn]

there must be many extremely good blind players around to prove the point

And probably a number of deaf dottists too.
Of course, that begs the obvious question.... :lol:

 

[george garside]

Dot reader but I wish I could play by ear, I can only remeber 4 tunes, if I go wrong it,s a disaster, there must be a way to learn to play by ear someone please.
colinm

I have tought several dot players to play by ear as well as non dotists starting on the box.

A fundamental difference between the two skills is where you start a tune. the dotist always starts from the beginning which is of course the perfectly logical thing to do.

This is not a good idea for the earist. most of us have at least some parts of tunes floating around in the head eg little jingles. Start by playing those, wherever they may be in a tune - in other words have a go at bits of tunes that are already stored in the brain - it doesnt ;matter where abouts in the tune they belong! Then gradually add more bits, perhaps quite randomly or like a jigsaw until you have the whole tune.

Where there are gaps you can then try a bit of poking and prodding i.e play a scale and stop on the note that sounds something like the first note of the bit you ae trying to play - then try other notes , having decided whether to go higher or lower, the next note is usually not very far away

Start the process with tunes you can hum or whistle as they are firmly in the head! Keep to slow tunes initialy as it gives more time to find the next note.

easy by ear tunes to build confidence include When the saints go marching in, Oh dear what can the matter be (3/4), coming round the mountains, in and out the windows, grand old duke of York etc etc etc there are hundreds of them!

For the bass just busk in the 3 chord trick for starters , it will work well! . When you are confident with the melody you can then think in terms of getting bass rhythm right and possibly going for more complicated harmony using a sort of 3 chord plus .

Playing by ear requires well honed listening skills, something that has to be developed and which is often lacking amongst dot readers who assume that what goes in to the processor as visual input is bound to send absolutely accurate signals down the arm!

I would suggest that learning to play by ear is a worthwhile additional skill for dot readers to develop as you will always have your head with you but not necessarily the right sheet(s) of dots! (and of course it is useful for earists to get the hang of basic dot reading)

george

george

 

[playandteach]

I'm a reader. It's hard to know which is the chicken and which the egg is here: my musical memory (not just playing by ear, but even remembering in my head how tunes start) is shocking. Therefore it often feels like I'm sight reading even when I have seen a piece before. Consequently my sight reading is well honed, and my aural abilities (apart from at the intonation end) are weak. I'd love to be better at working tunes out quickly. But my career was in orchestras, where notes are thrown at you (film sessions etc) with no preparation time, and rehearsal time for concerts is always limited. So at least my strength had a financial benefit.
Therefore I admire people who are good at playing by ear, and holding reams of tunes in their head. I also think you can train anyone to read if the desire is there.
It's playing with understanding that is important, whatever the medium or stimulus.

 

[Eannain]

I think... I'm hesitating saying this, but I think I do both. I learned to read music from the age of four with piano, and later flute but abandoned classical music in my teens in favour of a bass guitar and cover tunes. I would sit listening intently to cassettes or records while figuring out the bass lines, rewinding again and again until I had them. Later I turned drummer with a bodhran with a couple of trad/folk groups, borrowed an accordion and started playing bass accompaniment for some songs that were mostly a few repeated chords that I thought fit into the overall sound.

These days I tend to like to start off with the dots, commit to memory and only go back to the dots if I've forgotten the tune after not playing it for a long time. I still have a habit of racing through dots if they're in familiar keys (D/G), and sometimes when I'm learning a new tune that I've heard somewhere else and really like, I'll want to get it figured out as quickly as possible so I can abandon the music, but miss some written notes in favour of what I'm hearing in my head so don't play exactly what's on the page. Then later after I've memorised what my brain interpreted I'll look more closely at the piece and think 'oh... that wasn't quite right'. If I'm just browsing through say a book of session tunes I'm unfamiliar with, I'll be more likely to play exactly what's written down. I play outdoors with a maypole group so prefer to have the tunes in my head if possible, but have found it necessary to be able to follow along with our concertina player when he starts playing a tune I'm not so familiar with (which he periodically does).

I also sing with a folk choir that doesn't use music for performances, in fact our choir director (Sandra Kerr) likes us to memorise the music as quickly as possible to enable us to focus on the musicality of a piece, and has occasionally started teaching us a new piece before handing out the dots. Thankfully I seem to be a fast learner.

 

[george garside]

[quote="Eannain . Then later after I've memorised what my brain interpreted I'll look more closely at the piece and think 'oh... that wasn't quite right'.


Or it was your own 'arrangement'' of the tune!

, in fact our choir director (Sandra Kerr) likes us to memorise the music as quickly as possible to enable us to focus on the musicality of a piece,

never a truer word said!

george