dot readers v by earists v by memory

[smdc66]

:idea: on a loosely similar theme to 'how long have you been playing the accordion' theme which was good

there may be many variables

i started off with online music reading lessons which got me started , i then started meeting a friend who plays well and started teaching me everything he knows (think may be at about 1% :roll: ) on a show and copy basis which meant the online stuff clashed and became unsustainable by me , however as i have got to playing serious songs the communication barrier between us was so difficult (his knowlege v lack of my knowlege)i have had to try and learn dots a bit to help me play with him by ear/memory

so to cut a long story short as you are probable getting bored : 'my passion/preference is playing by ear and memory but dot read (not confident tho) when i have to to help'

this helps me really with our objective to play at festivals to entertain the crowds

 

[Adam-T]

Earist + By memory here - I`m musically dyslexic, it`s all just a jumble of mess to me and even after all this time it would take me hours to work out the notes on a single sheet (and write them underneath) , the thought of playing two staves simultaneously in real time is mindblowing, I`d find nuclear physics or brain surgery far far far far easier

 

[jarvo]

I can do all three.....I prefer to practice from the manuscript until I am fluent and by that time it has penetrated the old grey matter....I can read chord symbols and the treble clef or vocal line to "wing "a song on the guitar or piano.....not yet on the accordion....by ear ?....sometimes that ends up with more of an interperetation of the intended tune rather than the tune itself....we hear things differently ...especially as we start to drop higher frequecies from the old malleus,incus and stapes....................

 

[Glenn]

I'm a note reading type guy.
I have a sort of mental block if someone says play something and I don't have the notes in front of me.
Funny thing is, once I start with the notes there I hardly use them if I'm familar with the piece.
I think it is a training issue and I should force myself to play from memory more often.

 

[Reedwarbler]

Earist + by memory.

I can work out the dots but it would take me ages to "sight read" a piece of music, by which time I've lost interest

 

[Daveg4otu]

I am very definitely an ear player and have been ever since I first started messing around with guitars 55 years ago
.Have played around with keyboards and melodeon before recently starting with the accordion.Ear is the only way for me.



I can read standard notation but too slowly for it to be any real use....and I am impatient and want to play
a tune as I hear it rather than as it is written.Luckily,years of guitar playing have allowed me to have a good ear for knowing which chord goes where.....which is obviously useful with the accordion

 

[Pippa]

Dots all the way. I learnt to read music when I was 6 and I don't really know anything different. I generally learn something from the dots, then play it from memory. I envy those who can just hear a tune and then play it! I can pick out simple melodies by ear alright, takes me a lot longer with chords/baselines. And after I've worked something out, I'm likely to write it down so I can read it back while I play.

 

[Glenn]

I'm wondering if the is some way the "by ear" players can bring over some of their skills to the dot readers and visa versa?
Any ideas on how to imporove a dot readers ability to vamp at will (that's the selfish side of me talking)?

 

[Daveg4otu]

Im wondering if the is some way the by ear players can bring over some of their skills to the dot readers and visa versa?
Any ideas on how to improve a dot readers ability to vamp at will (thats the selfish side of me talking)?

I dont think it is that easy. Over the years I have tried to teach many other guitarists how to hear a tune and how to know (feel may be a better word) which chords go with what and so on.

Some have it - they usually require very little in the way of teaching....others just dont get it and never will.

Much the same I think with any instrument.
I worked for years with a lady pianist who had been formally taught. We were the backing for a small concert party ( think visits to Rest homes, hospitals etc) and the music was mostly popular tunes (not pop- music hall stuff). If it wasnt written down she couldnt play it - but , give her a sheet of music she had never seen before and she had no problems.
I tried many times to get her to improvise - even with something as simple as 12 bar blues she floundered yet musically /technically she was streets ahead of me.

 

[jarvo]

"I tried many times to get her to improvise - even with something as simple as 12 bar blues she floundered yet musically /technically she was streets ahead of me."

If I may take a moment here,may I make a little but to me significant observation.....and in the best intended spirit to both of you......I think that technically the lady may have been ahead of you,but musically you were ahead of her with your innate understanding of the music...........this is a discussion that could go forever ....it has legs.....

My Gran could sight read and play and then improv ....but I think that she was exceptionally talented in a time when womens talents of that type were not appreciated (b:1910 to 1993)because of war,contemporary male attitudes etc she became a piano teacher at a local school in Ilkeston and played in her chapel...............so she could do both.....and by ear to put the tin lid on it ...........now I can read music ,but slowly and painfully ....like Rowlf on the muppets ....with only half his dexterity......so the apple fell on the other side of the fence of the field from where the tree is ... :roll:

We only have these silly heads :| :mrgreen: :shock:

 

[Bill V]

Can only read the dots,thats easy and quick for me but never felt a complete musician because of that lack.

 

[jarvo]

You have never felt a complete musician?......quick here's one .....feel away.......

 

[jarvo]

This could get contentious if we're not careful....................could it ......I do not see tat one skill set decries another.....it's a bit like track and field disciplines some do running ...some do jumping and some do throwing pointy and heavy things .....but they are all athletes...........and then you got those that do all three......but not neccessarily as well as those who specialise....ther I thing that's a fair analogy...............nurse put that needle down.....

 

[Glenn]

Nice analogy Jarvo. Wonder if I'm more a sprinter than a shotputter

 

[jarvo]

Oh I'm a hammer thrower ....straight at the poor wee accordion.....in fact I may enter for Putting the Accordion !!

 

[grannykins]

I played folk guitar for years, and could work out chords to almost anything I wanted to, as long as I was familiar enough with the tune. Found this really helped with understanding the basics of the stradella bass, as I was already familiar with the cycle of fifths - used it when I needed to change the key of a song when playing guitar. Also had a couple of years piano lessons when I was young, so can read both treble and bass clef.

However, I've never been able to improvise really, to my disappointment.

So I'm a bit of both. At the moment I'm mainly using dots, but have worked out a couple of things I wanted to play by ear, and used my old guitar stuff (just words and chords) for some other things. Memory then usually comes after I've played something enough.

 

[jarvo]

I can do all three.....I prefer to practice from the manuscript until I am fluent and by that time it has penetrated the old grey matter....I can read chord symbols and the treble clef or vocal line to wing a song on the guitar or piano.....not yet on the accordion....by ear ?....sometimes that ends up with more of an interperetation of the intended tune rather than the tune itself....we hear things differently ...especially as we start to drop higher frequecies from the old malleus,incus and stapes....................

Just not well.....

 

[jarvo]

However, Ive never been able to improvise really, to my disappointment.

Improvisation comes from a knowledge of different types of scales....or patterns......I think ....like in blues guitar....if you learn the blues pentatonic scales,then playing within those scales over the melody gives you the tools to get you soloes and improvs ........the same or similar will be true of any instrument.....knowing that is one thing ! the other is doing it well :roll:

 

[Anyanka]

I was lucky, as I learnt to read music as a child (recorder lessons), and therefore sight-read reasonably fluently. However, I feel that to play well/with feeling, one has to let go of the sheet music and play from memory. I think reading music is a left brain activity, whereas playing freely/by ear/by memory is right brain. Having said that... playing Bach on the piano wouldn't work for me without the sheet music. The two- and three-part inventions are just that bit more complex than Donkey Riding or the Rochdale Coconut Dance.

By ear is hardest for me: I can do it with melodies that are very familiar, no problem, but if I've only heard a tune a few times, or if it's complex, then working it out by ear takes me much longer than having notation to start off with. However, I did teach myself Andy Cutting's 'Flatworld' and 'In Continental Mood' by listening & playing along to Karen Tweed's May Monday CD. It's quite liberating.

 

[Pippa]

I was lucky, as I learnt to read music as a child (recorder lessons)

Me too!

However, I feel that to play well/with feeling, one has to let go of the sheet music and play from memory.

I agree with this - I think of sheet music as a way to learn music, not to play it.