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Chinese-made high-end instruments?

xocd

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Do you know of Chinese-made high-end instruments? By this I mean an accordion comparable in specs to something like a Pigini Sirius and the like. I searched for "Chinese converter accordion" and variants without success.

Thanks,
 

debra

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I don't know of any Chinese high-end instruments.
The Chinese often use Russian high-end instruments. A Pigini Sirius is actually an Italian clone of a Russian (Jupiter) bayan.
 

xocd

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I spent some time in youtube and was able to find the video below where the description claims that the player is using a Parrot 185 free bass accordion (MIII bass).


(Though I cannot find the brand name on the accordion.)

The Parrot web-site (http://www.tjyueqi.com/en/) does not show an instrument with an MIII bass. There are no individual descriptions (at least on the English version of the site).
 

Stephen Hawkins

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xocd,

I imagine that the Chinese are more interested in production volume than with time consuming high-end instruments. They will have identified their markets, and will pitch their products accordingly.

I have no idea what percentage of the market demands high-end instruments, but I will wager that the Chinese do.

How many of us, on this site, need a high-end accordion? How many of us can afford one? We do have some professional or semi-professional musicians on here, but I imagine that the majority are happy enough with the instruments they have.

This is where the Chinese come into their own, providing affordable instruments for people to play in mundane, run of the mill venues. They will, at least for now, leave the low-volume, high-end market for others; concentrating their efforts on churning out cheap but half way decent machines for the mass market.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.
 

xocd

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Stephen Hawkins post_id=56329 time=1521585652 user_id=1440 said:
xocd,

I imagine that the Chinese are more interested in production volume than with time consuming high-end instruments. They will have identified their markets, and will pitch their products accordingly.

I have no idea what percentage of the market demands high-end instruments, but I will wager that the Chinese do.

How many of us, on this site, need a high-end accordion? How many of us can afford one? We do have some professional or semi-professional musicians on here, but I imagine that the majority are happy enough with the instruments they have.

This is where the Chinese come into their own, providing affordable instruments for people to play in mundane, run of the mill venues. They will, at least for now, leave the low-volume, high-end market for others; concentrating their efforts on churning out cheap but half way decent machines for the mass market.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

Stephen,

That sounds like a cogent market analysis.

Thanks!
 

debra

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xocd post_id=56326 time=1521575995 user_id=2246 said:
I spent some time in youtube and was able to find the video below where the description claims that the player is using a Parrot 185 free bass accordion (MIII bass).
...

Anything is possible. But... in the video they show a brief shot of an accordion with Parrot label but that is a 41 key instrument without MIII. The 45 key instrument with MIII being played indeed has no brand label. It could be Chinese but I wonder why the Chinese would start with MIII which the Europeans have all abandoned long ago and also why such an instrument would be produced without chin switches, something all Europeans and Russians have introduced long ago.
If this is the level of current Chinese high-end accordion design the Italians still have a bright future...
 
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wout

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I read somewhere (I don't remember where) that apparently the Chinese do manufacture high end models but only for Chinese top players. That means you won't find them for export. It is a very popular instrument there I believe
 

TomBR

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I think it's fair to say that Chinese instruments are not generally held in high regard on this site!

It depends on what you mean by "high end" but I suspect it's only a matter of time.

The violin family world has been revolutionised by Chinese made instruments. There are better quality violins now available at affordable prices than there have ever been. A friend who runs a violin shop said he's just been amazed by what's around. He's talking about violins in the £1000 to £2000 range. Some time ago I read an article by Joseph Curtin, an American violin maker who currently charges $48,000 for a new instrument (he knows what he's talking about!) He was very impressed by a Chinese violin factory he visited. Almost no machinery, everything was done by hand in the most traditional Italian way - the difference was that each worker did one thing, over and over again, quickly and beautifully!
 

debra

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I do not doubt that high quality Chinese accordions are coming, sooner or later. I was a bit surprised to see a supposedly Chinese PA without chin switches and with MIII. They really should introduce chin switches and convertor if they want to start exporting high-end accordions.
 
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Geronimo

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TomBR post_id=56341 time=1521631202 user_id=323 said:
I think its fair to say that Chinese instruments are not generally held in high regard on this site!

It depends on what you mean by high end but I suspect its only a matter of time.

The violin family world has been revolutionised by Chinese made instruments. There are better quality violins now available at affordable prices than there have ever been. A friend who runs a violin shop said hes just been amazed by whats around. Hes talking about violins in the £1000 to £2000 range. Some time ago I read an article by Joseph Curtin, an American violin maker who currently charges $48,000 for a new instrument (he knows what hes talking about!) He was very impressed by a Chinese violin factory he visited. Almost no machinery, everything was done by hand in the most traditional Italian way - the difference was that each worker did one thing, over and over again, quickly and beautifully!
What I heard is that the Chinese products are basically making it unworthwhile to restore mass manufactured violins around the end of 19th century from the Saxonia/Bohemia region and often with a vignette declaring them as Stradivarius, Guernerius, Steiner and a number of other famous makers. Assuming they havent taken too much damage, putting them into good playing order by a good Western luthier tends to be about €1000, and you get Chinese new violins of similar quality by masters having learnt in the Old World (ok, that term sounds seriously conceited in relation to China).

Of course, the €50 CNC-milled Chinese violins (including bow and case) cannot compete with either. They are just junk.
 
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Geronimo

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debra post_id=56342 time=1521631678 user_id=605 said:
I do not doubt that high quality Chinese accordions are coming, sooner or later. I was a bit surprised to see a supposedly Chinese PA without chin switches and with MIII. They really should introduce chin switches and convertor if they want to start exporting high-end accordions.
Frankly, they have enough of a trade surplus already, so theyd likely just keep them for themselves. If you compare the quality of mid-range green tea in Hongkong tea shops (priced only a bit above the cheap ones over here) with that of high-priced tea over here, its sort of irritating.

The grill on that video really looks like a Parrot. Of course that does not need to mean a thing. If you bought a Weltmeister converter before the insolvency (I dont think they currently offer them), most of it would have been made in Italy anyway, never mind the exterior.

Its entirely possible that these kinds of high quality Chinese instruments are similarly commissioned externally, not as much for direct profit as for branding reasons.
 

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Geronimo post_id=56343 time=1521633570 user_id=2623 said:
What I heard is that the Chinese products are basically making it unworthwhile to restore mass manufactured violins around the end of 19th century from the Saxonia/Bohemia region and often with a vignette declaring them as Stradivarius, Guernerius, Steiner and a number of other famous makers. Assuming they havent taken too much damage, putting them into good playing order by a good Western luthier tends to be about €1000, and you get Chinese new violins of similar quality by masters having learnt in the Old World (ok, that term sounds seriously conceited in relation to China).
Yes, exactly.
 

Stephen Hawkins

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It would be foolhardy to dismiss Chinese accordions out of hand, especially as they appear to have craftsmen (and Women) who are just as good as their European counterparts.

As I understand it, the Pearl River company manufactures three models in the Steinway & Sons piano range, together with a number of Yamaha piano models. I seriously doubt that Steinway would risk losing their reputation if the end product was not superb.

I confess that I tend to be a nostalgic man, but I am also a realist. Owners of British motorcycles in the 1960's could never have envisaged the forthcoming onslaught of Japanese bikes, but it came. We laughed at anyone with a Suzuki or Yamaha, but I guess they had the last laugh. Will it be the same story with Chinese instrument? I think it probably will !

Visits to a few local music stores seem to support my assertion, as most of the instruments came from China. Whatever instrument I looked at, Saxophones, Clarinets, Trumpets, Guitars, Drum Kits, the whole lot were made in China. (and they all looked okay) China claims to be the biggest musical instrument manufacturer in the World, and I believe them.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.
 

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