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Bugari Evo Depth Of Key Travel

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orchestrator1

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I have the Fr-8x and I have not got used to the depth of the key travel which is 7mm at the outer edge. I know it needs the depth of travel because of the after touch etc but does the Bugari Evo have a normal travel depth of about 3 mm like a top end accordion.
Orch
 
The only one that could hope to answer that is Paul DeBra, he's the only one here that's had the Evo on... but I am willing to bet that the depth will be close to if not exactly the same for the same reasons. On top of that, I bet the keys are "heavier" than the Roland due to the "real keyboard" design. I say that because traditionally higher end accordions offered this trait to make fast playing cleaner, and Bugari is considered one of the top names.

All 100% guesses on my part... Paul will have some real life experience to share.

BTW, welcome to the forum!
 
I have four acoustic accordions and the FR-8X. I am leaps and bounds faster on the FR-8X. I have a top-end accordion that is older with a Magnante keyboard, made with very shallow depth and incredibly quick action. The FR-8X is faster. By a lot.

Fatar has been making keyboards forever. What are you finding difficult about the FR-8X? Glissandos? Those are seamless for me.

I am not a skilled accordionist by any means. But this accordion is faster than all my others.

Steve
 
He mentioned it was the depth of the key press that is not fully comfortable. I can see where this could be an issue for some and not for others, but IMHO, looking at an Evo as a fix to this is kind of like moving from a Cadillac to a Rolls just because you don't like the feel of the steering wheel covering... It's a drastic move for a relatively minor issue. In this case, increased practice time and a small regimen of exercises should address the issue for almost everyone. This sounds like a familiarity issue more than anything else.

I recall moving back and forth between my Elka 83 and a Hohner Morino VI N pretty much seamlessly, which is like moving back and forth between a VW and a luxury cruise ship... lol
 
I must admit that on the Bugari Evo I was mostly concentrating on the sound. But I think that if the keyboard had abnormal long travel I would have noticed. Playing the keyboard felt pretty normal. Maybe not the most shallow (my Morino Artiste XS has a flat C-griff keyboard that has certainly no more than 3mm travel) but very comfortable to play. I only played it for a few minutes, trying all different register switches and checking out the sound. I was disappointed about the sound fairly quickly and went on to try acoustic accordions which was much more enjoyable.
 
debra said:
I must admit that on the Bugari Evo I was mostly concentrating on the sound. But I think that if the keyboard had abnormal long travel I would have noticed.
I doubt that. If I interpret the question correctly, its about the piano keyboard action and you tried the button keyboard version.

Either of you correct me if Im mistaken. At least well know then what everybody is actually talking about.
 
Paul -

Interesting about trying acoustics and that being far more fun. I could see that being the case.

This might be the wrong forum, and a bit off-topic, but what acoustic accordions impressed you? Anything new and interesting coming out?

Thank you.

Steve
 
view on the keys/buttons, Bugari Evo played by Uwe Steger


Uwe Steger prƤsentiert das neue Bugari-Evo Akkordeon
 
Stephen said:
view on the keys/buttons, Bugari Evo played by Uwe Steger


Uwe Steger prƤsentiert das neue Bugari-Evo Akkordeon

prƤsentiert (presents) is a plainly ridiculous characterization for Uwe putting out a few notes to a background track for <40seconds. He looks very much like somebody pressed the instrument on him, asked him to play and fired off the video cam before he could protest too much.

It does not look like that would have been nearly enough for Uwe to make a statement afterwards. Let alone anybody looking at the video. No idea who thinks to be doing anybody a favor by putting this kind of stuff online.
 
You are always welcome to make one yourself and post it, if you think that way of Uwe Steger and his presentations.

This one is on a Roland

Le Coucou - Uwe Steger

Is it his playing that bothers you, or is it the Bugari brand that you dont wish to see posted online?
 
Shrug. I know Uwe personally (and of course from a number of his videos) and he is an excellent showman, performer and presenter. Which makes it all the more obvious that in the touted video (have you actually looked at it?) he is not actually presenting the Bugari Evo. Either he's off-duty or he just walked around and played a bit and someone tried milking it for all it is worth. I suspect the latter since if it were the former, one would expect a much more thorough show to be available on Youtube already: since this is just an 8x electronically, Uwe could easily have taken one of his polished acts, run it through the Bugari and gave off his impression of the difference (assuming that he has no conflicting arrangements with Roland of course).

I'll be quite interested on hearing his opinion once he'll give one.
 
debra said:
I must admit that on the Bugari Evo I was mostly concentrating on the sound. But I think that if the keyboard had abnormal long travel I would have noticed.
I doubt that. If I interpret the question correctly, its about the piano keyboard action and you tried the button keyboard version.

Either of you correct me if Im mistaken. At least well know then what everybody is actually talking about.[/quote]

Oops, indeed I only tried the button version. It definitely did not strike me as having a lot of key travel. The piano keyboard version I dont know. 7 mil is a lot for any piano accordion. But anything is possible as I have not looked at the piano version at all.
 
DigitalSteve said:
Paul -

Interesting about trying acoustics and that being far more fun. I could see that being the case.

This might be the wrong forum, and a bit off-topic, but what acoustic accordions impressed you? Anything new and interesting coming out?

Thank you.

Steve

I was impressed only with one instrument: the Beltuna Prestige Convertor Paris. It was the only instrument where we could not hear a difference in sound between the different reed blocks in the cassotto. All others had either the L or M sound differently for the reed block closest to the outside.
 
Sum times its just what you like. I have an old SS6 solola that I just love the keyboard. My honer vox 4 I can play just as well but I don't care for the keyboard. Still have played it for years. I would say my 3x is inbetween. I don't love it or hate it. It is nice to have a feel you like.
 
acordiansam said:
Sum times its just what you like. I have an old SS6 solola that I just love the keyboard. My honer vox 4 I can play just as well but I dont care for the keyboard. Still have played it for years. I would say my 3x is inbetween. I dont love it or hate it. It is nice to have a feel you like.
Its been a number of years that I went to an accordion presentation by Hohner and Beltuna, I think. I was playing an old 1960 Morino Artiste which I had been able to buy cheaply and get cleaned up (some bozo had used oil containing resins on the highly complex bass mechanics and everything was sticky) and tuned finally for an amount I could afford. The main adjustment and tuning job was done by a retired old accordion technician tuner in Klingenthal who did the stuff in his free time, did not work with an electronic tuner, and you sort of described/negotiated the kind of tremolo you wanted to have and he made illustrative sounds to give you an idea of what he understood. And if you did not like the resulting tremolo, he spent half an evening making it different, put the instrument aside a few days, then corrected.

At any rate, I was still annoyed afterwards by buzzing or unreliable bass response and refitted all the leather valves: they had shrunk over time and when they closed just barely, they tended to cause response and/or sound problems. So lots of mucking around to get the thing to sound tolerable to my ears. At any rate, beggars cant be choosers and I had paid comparatively small amounts for the instrument itself as well as the cleanup/repair/tuning job.

So I finally decided to broaden my horizons and take a look at the state of the art, well-knowing that my money would not allow following up on any desires I might awaken. So I went to sort of a sales show of Hohner in some vicinity where also Beltuna happened to offer a few instruments.

What I had not actually expected was that I turned out seriously underwhelmed. Now one problem obviously was that I was playing CBA, and most of the accordions on show were piano accordions. But still, there was some Hohner Genius and some Beltuna accordions.

The Hohner Genius was reasonably easy to play with little noise and little key travel, but the keyboard felt very cheap. The Beltuna felt quite more sprightly and the keys felt nicely. Soundwise, however, both had me scratching my head. There was nothing even remotely comparing to the rather shallow 3-reed tremolo the old tuner had given my instrument. The bass/treble balance made it difficult to play anything using long bass notes while using a single reed in the treble: most registrations had problems working well, whereas I was used to most registrations on my instrument being musically workable. Single-reed registrations in particular but also some multiple-reed combinations were dead: when you changed the bellows pressure, the volume changed to some degree, but the tone quality did not unfurl and fold back into plain simultaneously with the volume changes: the tone quality was more or less rigid.

Took me a long time to figure out that buying the accordion that was brutally marked down because nobody wanted to buy something with as weird bass mechanics (and sticky to boot) and getting to an old retired tuner (may he rest in peace, I cannot avail myself of his services any more) without electronics and cent curves who went through some tuning three times faster by ear than the people with modern equipment took for a single iteration was, well, decidedly less compromising on the resulting quality than I had imagined it to be.

Now obviously, the whole Frankfurt trade fair should be a different kind of eye opener than a Hohner show with Beltuna side show had proven to me. For several years, however, it conflicted with my travelling plan, and in the mean time it conflicts with my pocket book.

Still I want to try out a larger range of instruments than I had the ability to at some point of time.

My experience probably reflects what you wrote above: Sum times its just what you like. Ive had a few instruments, and after all, I also bought a Maugein two-reed for show/chanson singing, and its pretty nice. But in the touted-as-magic class, Id like to try out a few more instruments, just to see whether Ill ever find something where Id say oh, Id swap my good one for this one without looking back.
 
Hi Paul.
Thanks for the remarks on the Bugari Evo.
I was not that happy with the sound of the Roland Fr-8x from the internal speakers either but once I set it up with a good amp and speakers it was a different sounding instrument altogether but I tend to play it more with a Ketron Audya play station.
 
Hi again Paul.
Just caught the bit on the end of your post about the Beltuna . I have a Beltuna Prestige (piano) and the key action and key depth is far superior than the 8x. The Roland is the complete instrument to record with though as you don't need to worry about acoustics through stereo microphones into a recording program. Makes mixing and mastering a bit easier.
Orch
 
orchestrator1 said:
Hi again Paul.
Just caught the bit on the end of your post about the Beltuna . I have a Beltuna Prestige (piano) and the key action and key depth is far superior than the 8x. The Roland is the complete instrument to record with though as you dont need to worry about acoustics through stereo microphones into a recording program. Makes mixing and mastering a bit easier.
Orch
I can definitely appreciate the dont need to worry about acoustics part. I have made many recordings, both live and studio at an amateur level and you always have to worry about all sorts of noises, ambient or from the instruments (like a plop when you let keys go) or the players (stamping their feet)... No worry with a digital instrument. But to also use the instrument in an orchestra (of acoustic accordions) the sound of built-in speakers also needs to be good. There is a lot of improvement possible there. Maybe Roland and Bugari should team up with Bose for that...
 
debra said:
I can definitely appreciate the dont need to worry about acoustics part. I have made many recordings, both live and studio at an amateur level and you always have to worry about all sorts of noises, ambient or from the instruments (like a plop when you let keys go) or the players (stamping their feet)... No worry with a digital instrument.
Thats funny. Out of the box, the Rolands make a plop when you let keys go. I switched that off because I found it too distracting on low notes, then later I figured out that there were three buttons which always had full key release velocity in the Midi. Not the key press velocity, that was fine. So I disassembled the accordion until IĀ got the keyboard apart, and there were sort of rubber insets covering three key contacts each. And the one covering the three keys in question was upside down with regard to some holes in the rubber. Turned it around, reassembled, worked. Currently I have the key noise on again (no point in letting keys flip when practising, even if key velocity does not fully model just what makes release noises).
But to also use the instrument in an orchestra (of acoustic accordions) the sound of built-in speakers also needs to be good.
I think thats sort of hopeless: the instrument will project differently from the others. At best I think its reasonable for bass accordion in a larger orchestra since those tend to be a bit on the weak side (and the kind of sluggy reaction of the low reeds which, given proper technique, gives very nicely articulated notes, does not make it a good idea to create a large bass section from different individual players and instruments). But since you need amplification as compared to even an acoustic accordion, you would not want to do this over internal speakers but rather with a nice solid bass speaker. Of course, with an acoustic bass accordion internal microphones work tolerably and provide for reasonably feedback-free amplification as well. Or just use smaller ensembles and go acoustical. But then you need a very good drummer (if any) who is able to finely gradate his action in a comparatively confined loudness space.

The old Electroniums never tried matching accordions but complementing them. I think that makes more sense.
 
People are free to play and test music instruments the way they like, and post it online.

Another video of the Bugari Evo


Musikmess 2016 Bugari-evo FR8x powered by Roland

We dont need censorship
 
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