Brand New Accordion with strange problems.

[debra]

I thought it was commendably discreet of her not to mention it.

We do not have secrets here. And problems can be (and sometimes have been) reported about many different brands.
There is more (info and speculation) to be gained by knowing exactly which accordion we are dealing with. There may even be forum members with the exact same instrument.

 

[donn]

Sure, but ... it's a refreshing contrast to episodes I've seen - on other forums - where someone comes in with a grievance against a third party - manufacturer, dealer, whatever - that's really between them to resolve. Battle lines are drawn, etc. There's a more or less irresistible attraction to that kind of spectacle, which is why it's often explicitly discouraged. When everyone possesses as much forbearance as the OP, the forum can hardly go wrong. If it turns out to be an inherent design or production flaw, I do hope we'll hear more specifics though.

 

[JerryPH]

I thought it was commendably discreet of her not to mention it.

I was curious as heck as well, but as she showed a little reluctance to share earlier, I deemed it appropriate to not ask, however, its not like the entire line of all accordions would be total refuse because of this one event... lol

 

[JIM D.]

Hi OktoberfestGirl; And welcome !!
I've been reading this thread for 2 days now and have been waiting to see a mention of the make and model of the box you have to more accurately describe your valve problem. Now with the sound bite you have provided, no matter the make and model, I'll try to explain the problem you are hearing.
First of all that flapping sound is from 1 or more bass valves (plastic or leather) not closing properly. Playing the bass note alone provides enough of air flow to cause the valve (or valves) to close properly, but when a treble valve (or valves) are opened at the same time the air flow to the bass valve is reduced and the valve flatters. Correcting this situation is not difficult as it just requires replacing the valve (or valves) with a heavier or lighter valve or replacing a valve booster that may have fallen off.
If your dealer has a repair tech, correcting your problem will not take long but if not, you will have to ship it for correction.

 

[Glenn]

If this is a true description of the problem Jim then it does surprise me that a new, "top model" accordion would have fitted the wrong valves.

 

[JIM D.]

Not necessarily the wrong valves. But it is bass valve problem.
In storage or shipment the valves may have been subjected to a dry and moisture situation causing them to hang open.

 

[maugein96]

Been looking at this post with an element of intrigue since day 1. It seems we accordionists are really up against it these days. Faced with the prospect that no suitable instrument is usually available at the nearest dealer we are often tempted to pick a make we like, and order "blind", based on the fact that person "A" has recommended it, or it has received a good review somewhere or other.

The only way I'd buy any accordion these days, let alone a "top of the range " instrument, is to source a newish used model available from a dealer who actually had it in stock. Unless you are in possession of the technical knowledge to carry out repairs/modifications to any accordion bought unseen, then this post gives clear indication that it is as well to leave well alone. You might as well put your money on a horse!

Unless you are earning a very good living from playing your accordion there are no "must have" instruments in this game, and suitable alternatives can always be found. We all tend to want the very best that we can afford on the basis that we stand a better chance of becoming a more accomplished player. However, top of the range instruments tend to be aimed at top of the range players who would not tolerate any imperfections whatsoever. Sorry, but that is my view, probably shared by various others.

 

[donn]

You might as well put your money on a horse!

Which people do, you know. I've never done it myself, but I've sure bet on buying musical instruments by mail order.

Anyway, so ... the valve that's misbehaving in this phenomenon would have to be the one with the pallet open, right? So if this effect occurs with every bass note, then valves must be fixed for every bass note, does that make sense? (Though not necessarily every bass reed, assuming that the bass notes are doubled on octaves.)

 

[OktoberfestGirl]

Thank you so much for all your suggestions. After reading all the comments I do agree it could be a valve problem of some sort, and I will be happy to keep you posted of the outcome after the accordion is returned under warranty.

I won't mention the make and model as the company is very reputable and I have no doubt they will do the right thing

 

[Glenn]

In some respects th I s whole discussion is academic for Oktoberfestgirl. Imagine you've bought a brand new car and every time you accelerate the thing shakes. Do you 1) go on a forum and ask what's wrong and how to fix it or 2) get stright on the phone to the garage and ask them to pick it up? Even if you find out it is "only" that the drive shaft is poorly aligned do you get your overalls on or ask the garage to come pick it up?

Listening to the recording the effect in question sounds pretty horrible and makes the instrument unpleasant to play. Stressful as it all is for Oktoberfestgirl, your instrument has to be reviewed by the shop you bought it from.

 

[maugein96]

Quite a few of us have waited patiently for an instrument to arrive by courier, and the last thing we need is to discover there is some kind of defect. There is an element of disbelief, especially if the instrument is new, and the second last thing we want to do is pack it all up again and send it back. I would have done exactly the same thing as Oktoberfestgirl and sought out advice on a forum.

At least the accordion is brand new with a warranty, and the make is not important. I wasn't looking for a "name and shame", but was advocating that the instrument was returned, which is apparently being done.

In my particular case I received a new instrument with debris blocking one or two reeds. Fortunately I was able to clear the obstructions myself, but I know what it is like to receive a defective instrument. Mine was a low end budget model, and that was bad enough, but to experience the same thing with an expensive instrument from a known reputable maker must be devastating.

I hope it all works out in the end. Something may have occurred during transit, and it may not be down to poor manufacture.

 

[debra]

...
I wont mention the make and model as the company is very reputable and I have no doubt they will do the right thing

I have no doubt they will do the right thing. But having problems with what should be excellent instruments coming new from the factory is unfortunately a common problem with the accordion industry nowadays. The least of the problems to be expected with every new instrument is it being out of tune (not overall, but a few notes here and there). Problems with (convertor) bass mechanics are another common issue. Its all pretty delicate and quality control at factories is lacking. I have been very happy so far with the instruments I got from Bugari, Pigini, Hohner and AKKO. But had I expected them to be flawless when new I would have been unhappy with all of them. Flaws are to be expected in the manufacturing process because an accordion contains so many mechanical components. But flaws should be discovered and then corrected in the factory and unfortunately that isnt happening.
The legal reality currently is that it is the shop that sells you the accordion that is responsible (liable) for getting the problem fixed. Whether they do it themselves or involve the factory in the process is not your problem. You only care about getting your instrument fixed.

 

[debra]

Quite a few of us have waited patiently for an instrument to arrive by courier, and the last thing we need is to discover there is some kind of defect. There is an element of disbelief, especially if the instrument is new, and the second last thing we want to do is pack it all up again and send it back. I would have done exactly the same thing as Oktoberfestgirl and sought out advice on a forum.
...

The reality with accordions is that it is unlikely to receive a new instrument without some kind of defect. It can be a small defect like a particle blocking a reed, but very common is for the instrument to have some notes that are out of tune, and there can also be mechanical failures, especially with the bass mechanism. All of these need not have been caused by the transport. The only way to get a perfect instrument is to have the local dealer check it carefully (which is not done in the factory), fix all the flaws that are found, and then you need to go collect the instrument. Any transportation other than under your own car is again a risk. A shop is not supposed to just "move boxes" but should ensure you do not need to come back to have initial defects fixed. Some may do this... but it will come at a price.

 

[OktoberfestGirl]

Not sure if anyone is still following this post, but the manufacturer has indicated the sound interference is not a fault but a limitation of the box, which I was extremely surprised about as I don't think the sound was in any way acceptable for a top shelf accordion. They have offered to replace the lowest bass reeds with different ones to see if this will fix the flutter (which will change the accordion from the advertised specifications). But, we like the accordion very much in all other aspects...so we have agreed and shipped the reed block overseas. They have promised to ship a replacement one back. We wait in hope.

 

[debra]

Not sure if anyone is still following this post, but the manufacturer has indicated the sound interference is not a fault but a limitation of the box, which I was extremely surprised about as I dont think the sound was in any way acceptable for a top shelf accordion. They have offered to replace the lowest bass reeds with different ones to see if this will fix the flutter (which will change the accordion from the advertised specifications). But, we like the accordion very much in all other aspects...so we have agreed and shipped the reed block overseas. They have promised to ship a replacement one back. We wait in hope.

This is a rather strange response from the manufacturer. My experience with such interference (which I have seen in normal accordions as well as in bass accordions) is that in the cases I saw the unwanted sound always came from the valves. So instead of replacing reeds they should replace valves. I for instance had a Bugari bass accordion and different types of valves were used on different notes: some one layer of leather and then a few of plastic, and some completely leather with a metal spring added... all to avoid unwanted vibrations that may be caused by a certain type of valve on a specific note.
Fixing this problem is real detective work. The manufacturer may not have produced enough of the top instruments to know for certain what the problem is (whereas for a model they produced thousands of already they would know).

 

[JerryPH]

Wow. Forgive me, but I am with Paul, that is very unusual and quite honestly we have now gone from disappointing actions to unacceptable. You pay for new, it arrives defective, instead of addressing the issue, they try to replace a part of it. Incidentally a part that may or may not be the whole problem!

The pattern I see happening is that you wait weeks for the new part, it arrives and does not address it. You then send another part back and they continue the process until the warranty period expires and then you are stuck with a bad instrument.

Seriously, you should have insisted that they replace the entire accordion with another one, let the factory or dealer deal with it. It's not your job to pay for a new box and be without an instrument for weeks! My advice is that if the issue is not addressed 100% to your satisfaction after this, return the instrument and get something else.

I also think that the time for secrecy is over and would like to know the accordion make and model, please.

 

[maugein96]

I wholeheartedly agree with both Jerry and Paul here.

Looks like Jim D's diagnosis was correct, but it has taken the manufacturer almost a month to ask for a reed block to be shipped to them for modification, with the pathetic excuse that your issue is caused by "a limitation of the box". That infers they are suggesting you are trying to play it otherwise than for the purpose it was designed and/or intended. They are telling you there is nothing wrong with the accordion, it doesn't have any defects, and are basically having to modify it because of something only you as an individual have an issue with. They have also thrown in a caveat that the accordion will be changed from the advertised specifications. Did they advise you if any of the modifications will affect the warranty in any way?

I honestly hope it all goes well for you, but if a manufacturer told me that their instrument wasn't up to the way I wanted to play it, then it would have been returned to them for a refund forthwith.

Crazy thing is there may be other forum members who own the particular accordion model concerned, and who could have identified the problem in a day or two. Maybe even had a solution for it.

Whoever the manufacturer is, they should be placed on a list of companies who reckon the customer is always wrong.

 

[debra]

...
Whoever the manufacturer is, they should be placed on a list of companies who reckon the customer is always wrong.

Not only that, but there is a risk that whatever is sent to them might not be returned... There already was a forum member who sent a Borsini accordion to the factory for repair and then Borsini went belly up and he never got his accordion back.
But the sad truth is that it is becoming a rare occasion when a brand new expensive accordion is delivered without any defects. I do not recall any problems with the Bugari 285/ARS accordions we bought around the year 2000. Less than 10 years later when I started also to learn to fix things myself I started seeing more new accordions (some that I bought and some from other people), all from good Italian brands, and all of them had issues like strange resonance, notes not playing well, notes out of tune, bass buttons sticking, you name it. Quality control has simply slipped big time. I may be a bit overly critical with regards to tuning, but notes not playing, bass buttons sticking and other mechanical failures are things that nobody should be accepting.

 

[maugein96]

I don't now much about accordions and the industry at all, but from reading the forum I get the feeling that some of the current accordion manufacturers know they are on borrowed time. A lot of them are working with the bare minimum workforce who are well aware of the situation, and that extra few hours it might take on quality control to ensure a top notch accordion goes out in A1 condition costs precious time and money. I honestly don't think some of them could care less whether they'll get repeat orders. It seems to be a case of live for today before the shutters finally come down for good.

There are no doubt several makers with proud family traditions who are still determined to deliver quality instruments, although unfortunately that quality comes at a price that not many of us can afford. Hohner, perhaps the "Ford" of the accordion world, seems to be the only maker of acoustic instruments who have consistently offered them in such numbers as to maintain a viable existence. They seem to be dominating the European market at the moment, even in France, where they are probably the most popular choice of young beginners. The quality probably isn't the same as in previous years, but it seems that Hohner is doing something right, even if they have no qualms about sub-contracting much of their work to keep costs down.

If it is the case that the accordion subject of the OP is a Hohner, then maybe they aren't actually doing everything right at all.

FWIW, I once had a car that had a persistent misfire. I wasted 6 months trying to get it fixed under warranty, but I'm not going to tell you what make it was, because they're a pretty decent manufacturer!

 

[TomBR]

That's an interesting comment Maugein - I've taken the liberty of quoting it in a new thread to keep it separate from the specific problems of OktoberfestGirl's accordion.
Tom