Proxima and the Future of Electronic Accordions

[Tommaso B]

I had a person-to-person conversation in late September with Joe Petosa about when the Proxima might appear in the marketplace. He said that I was one of about 160 names on his file expressing interest in the Proxima. He did NOT have a sample on hand for playing, as reported elsewhere, but "hoped" to have one by this month, December. But, who knows.... He also said that his latest information from the factory is that all these interim months have been spent on improving the circuity, and that the one main chip maker being relied on has pulled out of the picture and has been replaced by another that is ready and willing to fill whatever the hell bill it is that has prevented production. So, could be that orders can start to be filled in January, 2024. I didn't ask Joe about likely pricing, but, who knows, maybe $6800? Not for me, though; I'm happy with my Roland FR4X....

 

[dak]

They may be waiting for Roland to disappear since Roland does no longer have to invest into research and development and can go for broke on the remaining stocks. Proxima cannot really sensibly price themselves against a writeoff. So they may be keeping small shop until they are more likely to get the prices they need for sustainability.

 

[JerryPH]

is musictech chopped liver ?

Apparently it is. Pretty much every Musictech accordion purchaser I know that buys one moves to a Roland V-accordion within a year or 2. Even our own Piotr did that. From the responses I hear, I guess the need to be tethered to a box with less musical options overomes the need to have a box that feels like an accordion.

Let's also face a truth, the accordion sounds are not THAT horrible, its not like any of the accordions sound so bad that you cannot tell that they are various kinds of accordions. Only people that WANT a SPECIFIC PURE accordion sound are going to shake their head at it, and there are a lot fewer of those than there were ex-Musictech owners. I have no issues with the accordion sounds. Sure, some sound better, but that is the point... thousands of sonic options.

 

[Valski]

Love my Roland Fr8x. Stopped playing my Excelsior and subsequently sold it because I didn't see the point of keeping an instrument which wasn't being played.

Yes the sound is different from accoustic accordions but I have so many different options to choose from and it doesn't limit me to one particular tuning. The bellows action is also quite different but after a few weeks accepted that it's not an acoustic instrument so I shouldn't expect them to behave exactly the same. In fact not every accordion sounds pleasing to my ear so these deep discussions about specific minor variations in tuning don't affect me to any great extent.

The main thing that attracted me was the bass, with the orchestral sounds which makes each solo performance sound as if it's played with a group of musicians. I also appreciate that you can create a backing track and play along with it for a fuller experience. The Roland bk7m backing module is a wonderful unit that enhances performances although it is a little bulky.

For the future of electronic accordions I would wish for something like my FR8X with built-in speakers but perhaps a little lighter and with a built-in Bk7m module. Electronics are getting smarter and more compact every day and therefore it should be reasonable to wish for these relatively "minor" upgrades.

 

[John M]

I agree completely with Valski – I love my 8X. I still have my Excelsior 960, but don't play it much after I bought my 8X. I probably shouldn't say this but, to me, the 8X is "garbage" in stock form as delivered from the factory. The factory 8X just gets you to “first base”, maybe not even that far. I started with the Richard Noel User Programs, which are great. From there, I am creating new sound/tones every day! The “hooks” that Roland left in the software to modify the tones are amazing. Such as:

● The 8X has a 4 band Equalizer (Low, Mid 1, Mid 2, and High)
● Each band has:
∆ Adjustable Center Frequency
∆ Gain (+/- 15db) Adjust
∆ Q (0.5-8.0) Adjust on Mid 1 and Mid 2
∆ Level Adjust across all bands
● In the “Accordion” section, the EQ can be set to modify any of the 33 Reed types along with all of their different footages
● The Equalizer can also be used on any of the “Orchestra 1 and 2” sections
● The Equalizer can also be used on the Left Hand Orchestral Chord section
So – Will the 8X sound exactly like your acoustic accordion? No, but it will be very close, and You Can change The Tone. You can do this, also, on with your acoustic but it takes a lot of tedious work.

The bottom line is: how much of a “purist” are you? If you have to have the exact sound/tone of an acoustic or the “spit”,”growl”, “distortion” of a Hammond B3 through a 122 Leslie, then forget about, an 8X. But, if you can be satisfied with sounds that are remarkably close, and full the Portabilty of the 8X, then the 8X is fantastic.

For example take the recent post by 96 Bass on Lewis & Marone's album "Casual and Colorful" Circa 1967 -- Just Cordovox and drums. I contend that the 8X (using Hammond tonewheel sounds) with a MicroVent 122 Leslie simulator and a Bose L1 Pro8 Power stand array will sound better than the Cordovox that uses the Lowery organ tones. Now, realize you need an accordion player equivalent to the player on the "On Green Dolphin Street album", where he transitions from single notes to the great full treble chords on the right hand.

Also, the few variation of tones that are available on an acoustic accordion cannot be compared in any way to the multitude of Accordion, Organ, and Orchestral tones of the 8X.

 

[SteveBox]

This Finnish dealer appears to have the Proxima MIA B46 in stock, and the MIA P37 back in stock soon. (Use Google translate if necessary.) Is this a sign that production has started?

Proxima Mia B46 -näppäinharmonikka

PROXIMA on yhtiö, joka on omistautunut digitaalisille harmonikoille. Mia B46 -näppäinharmonikassa yhdistyvät perinteet, huipputeknologia ja estetiikka. Sisäänrakennetut kaiuttimet sekä korkealaatuinen vahvistinjärjestelmä. Puinen kotelointi.

www.tampereenmusiikki.fi

Proxima MIA P37 -pianoharmonikka

Proxima on omistautunut digitaalisille harmonikoille. Proxima MIA P37 -pianoharmonikassa yhdistyvät perinteet, huipputeknologia ja estetiikka. Sisäänrakennetut kaiuttimet sekä korkealaatuinen vahvistinjärjestelmä. Puinen kotelointi.

www.tampereenmusiikki.fi

 

[debra]

Interesting development. Of course we don't know what "soon" means.
It's also a first time that I've seen a piano version be more expensive than the button version.
Time for some real-world demos of an actual production unit...

 

[Walker]

digital accordions just aren't for me,
It's a shame - I'm not a fan of fanfare brass,
I can't floss with synthetic strings...

So the sales team won't miss me.

I'll stick with a soft, flute-like voice
from a Castelfidardo 'ccordion in cassotto
Classic... timeless... y'know - crafted
Maybe the reeds will get sweeter over time -
I hope so.

My choices will be handed down,
And if I got it right my children might just say:
"our old dad had good taste"

digital accordions just aren't for me...

 

[dak]

digital accordions just aren't for me,
It's a shame - I'm not a fan of fanfare brass,
I can't floss with synthetic strings...

Are you telling me you are flossing with catgut? Because that's the alternative to strings with synthetic core. Ugh.

So the sales team won't miss me.

I'll stick with a soft, flute-like voice
from a Castelfidardo 'ccordion in cassotto
Classic... timeless... y'know - crafted
Maybe the reeds we get sweeter over time -
I hope so.

My choices will be handed down,
And if I got it right my children might just say:
"our old dad had good taste"

digital accordions just aren't for me...

Well, in a nutshell: would you rather have a dozen accordions to choose from, or one good one?

An accordion has more useful registers than a violin. Somehow violins are still around. A Roland has more useful accordions than an acoustic. Somehow acoustics are still around.

An LMMH accordion has more registers than an LMMM one. The latter are getting sold nevertheless.

In program features/user design there is a tendency to "offer a user choice" between two bad solutions with different drawbacks instead of trying to get things right. The former, however, allows to blame the user for bad product design.

Or in other words: would you rather be able to switch between a dozen instruments in order not to get bored by their sound or play just one instrument that you cannot hear enough of?

Now the tradeoff for the audience may well end up different. When working as a musical entertainer in a professional setting, ignoring electronic/digital instruments comes with quite different consequences than when you are playing for your own enjoyment.

 

[Walker]

My wife's been trying to teach me the "floss", it's a dance apparently.

 

[dak]

My wife's been trying to teach me the "floss", it's a dance apparently.

It looks like that only if the floss gets stuck.

 

[debra]

digital accordions just aren't for me,
It's a shame - I'm not a fan of fanfare brass,
I can't floss with synthetic strings...

...

Long ago I thought the same about digital pianos. Some did not give me the right touch to feel at home with them. Some just did not have a nice sound like a real grand piano. (And most lacked both.) I finally settled for a (not cheap) Yamaha that makes me feel like I'm playing an acoustic piano and it sounds like a Yamaha grand piano.
From a digital accordion I really don't ask anything different: it should give me the feel of playing an acoustic accordion, both in terms of keyboard and bellows, and it should sound like a nice acoustic accordion with LMMH and LM in cassotto. As a bonus I already know that the amount of tremolo will be adjustable and the volume levels between each reed bank will also be adjustable so I can make it have the sound balance of different accordions (just like with my own different accordions).
And the biggest advantage of both a digital piano and a digital accordion is: they never need tuning!
Until now all of this (regarding the accordion) has been wishful thinking. I just hope the Proxima will be different...

 

[Rosie C]

digital accordions just aren't for me,

I can't afford one so a moot point. But I do think a digital accordion would be useful for practice - bass & treble at least, perhaps less so for bellows technique. I wear ear defenders when practising as my hearing's a bit sensitive, so just being able to turn the volume down would be good. After owning an acoustic piano for 30+ years I bought a digital last year and once I'd got over the change I love it, so I would like to think I'll have one eventually - though whether anyone is still making one then is another matter!

 

[nou]

My biggest gripe with digital/MIDI free reed instruments is the lack of vibration. This completely kills the „immersion” for me and I simply don’t get the same level of pure joy of plaing on one.

I can accept a similar level of „faux experience” when it comes to digital pianos and even more with virtual organs, because orherwise I simply would not have any kind of experience with those - I don’t have enough room for an acoustic piano and I don’t own a church

An open question though is, if I enjoyed digital free reed instruments more, if we had a physically modeled sound like Pianoteq or Organteq instead of sampled ones. I certainly enjoy Moddart’s sound way more than any sample libraries.

 

[Ventura]

immersion

hehehe

i have my PA system cranked up to
'immersion" for the entire block usually
whether the neighbors like it or not

 

[Rosie C]

i have my PA system cranked up to
'immersion" for the entire block usually
whether the neighbors like it or not

Hehe. The PA that our band use for gigs is usually set up in my practice room so I can use it for vocal practice. It's only a little one really - 400W or thereabouts and there are 2-foot stone walls, so no complaints from the neighbours ... yet!

 

[Pbraido]

Interesting development. Of course we don't know what "soon" means.
It's also a first time that I've seen a piano version be more expensive than the button version.
Time for some real-world demos of an actual production unit...

There was this on YouTube as far as demos is concerned

 

[John M]

I believe that video has been up for quite some time now.

 

[Ventura]

This Finnish dealer appears to have the Proxima MIA B46 in stock, and the MIA P37 back in stock soon. (Use Google translate if necessary.) Is this a sign that production has started?

no

i will assume the proxima website would be the first to know, of course,
of the actual release and availability of product, and there is no new information there

that official video was posted to youtube Feb/2021

none of our members on the Proxima mailing list have reported to us
any contact, announcement, or update from Proxima

the for sale page on the finnish retailers website is likely just vaporware..
the pics are re-posted from the proxima webpage and not actual photo's of product..

this retailer is also a Roland dealer and they sell other brands of accordions,
so i would assume this is simply bait and switch.. a few bytes invested in a webpage and
they get some traffic some inquiries some visits which is all the metrics
they go for nowadays

unless you actually think an obscure Finnish general music retailer might actually have the
inside scoop and an exclusive on the entire worldwide initial offering
of the long awaited proxima product..
anything is possible ?
Roland actually reduced their pricing.. i didn't think that was possible either..
the poor guy trying to sell his FR8 on the Boston CList for the last year
still doesn't believe the price dropped !

Thomann does not have Proxima, one would also think they would
have an arrangement with the biggest retailer in Europe when the product
actually drops

 

[nou]

immersion

hehehe

i have my PA system cranked up to
'immersion" for the entire block usually
whether the neighbors like it or not

Well, my neighbours certainly not only hear, but most importantly feel, when I turn the 32' reeded stop in Organteq The first time I carelessly turned it on with the reverb cranked up (near the self-oscilation point and with a ton of delay) it actually scared the s... out of me when stuff on the shelves started rattling, my ear drums pounding, and I could not simply stop it by lifting the finger. It's like if you put a diesel truck in your room.

But, regardless of the volume, you simply do not feel the vibration under your fingers and on your sternum when playing with a MIDI/digital instrument. Not only it lowers the pleasure, but in case of my abilities on a concertina, it actually lessens the musicality of my performance, due to poorer feedback on when the reed starts, which part of the cycle it's in, how close to going silent it's. It is also notoriously hard to properly mimic bellows behaviour via MIDI.

The bottom line is - for me, MIDI/digital is great for silent practice or if you want a bellows driven arranger keyboard, with backing tracks and whatnot, but a really poor approximation of the real thing.