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Elkavox use microphone only

jdam01

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Hello I'm looking at purchasing an Elkavox accordion that has built in mics as well as tone generator. However the onboard mics don't work without the tone generator as they need power. Has anyone modified theirs to work without the tone generator or should I just remove the onboard mics and install my own?

Thanks
 
someone may be able to help but there are multiple different generations of instruments named elkavox. A picture may help narrow down the specific generation of yours.
 
JD, you are "looking at purchasing" something

so you have not opened it up and personally looked at the Mic's yet,
so you actually have no idea what is inside, and only know from
the seller, i imagine, that they need power (or something.. maybe just re-wired)

who knows ? well no-one until you open it up

there are several recent discussions here you can look over that explain in
detail accordion Mic circuitry

secondly, by wondering about using the Mics independently, you are
suggesting the accordion Organ section is perhaps not useable ?
Most old organ accordions that do not work are BoatAnchors
because of their excessive weight and limited acoustic features
which were typically sacrificed to fit all the wires and stuff inside..

there are a few, but very few, old organ accordion models that can stand
on their own as (useable) acoustic instruments, so b careful
 
. . . you are
suggesting the accordion Organ section is perhaps not useable ? . . .
If you are interested in the organ section, it may be able to be restored. I have no experience with the Cordovox accordion. However, I found information on the internet, on a comprehensive History of the Cordovox written by Fabio G. Giotta. He describes the First Generation Cordovox - Circa 1960-1962: CG-2/CG-3 as the only generation with the Legendary Vacuum Tube Organ Electronics. I would think if you had this model of Cordovox, the organ section could be fully restored. Unless I am wrong, all discrete components should be replaceable/available -- tubes, resistors, wax/paper capacitors, electrolytic capacitors, etc. I don't know how the organ tone on this original Cordovox sounds, but it should be able to be brought back to original condition specs. If it has wax caps, the polyester/mylar caps, available today, are even better with their fantastic stability.

I realize the Elkavox is not a Cordovox, but if the electronics are an "all tube design" then it should be able to be restored.
 
secondly, by wondering about using the Mics independently, you are
suggesting the accordion Organ section is perhaps not useable ?
Most old organ accordions that do not work are BoatAnchors
because of their excessive weight and limited acoustic features
which were typically sacrificed to fit all the wires and stuff inside..
That's not quite my impression: my impression rather was that those hybrid accordions tend to end up only useful as acoustic accordions because all the electronics and tone generator are externally in something called "power supply" which gets lost as people inherit the thing or find it somewhere and throw the matching electronics away. The weight difference is not all that much, but with the larger organ-thingies, the grill may be an abomination and I've also seen "simplified" register mechanics that are more awkwardly positioned (and more complex to use) than you'd want for a complete acoustic accordion.

When there are combination registers, they may include a "silent" register on either side that reduces the number of sounding registers. Reed quality sometimes was rather high for something with a primitive electronics part, but could be just LMH, for example. And no bulk or weight was sacrificed for cassotto, at least that I know of.

Of course there are also things like Hohner's "Electravox" which are electronics only.
 
several points.. there are proprietary components in the original
Lowrey Organ/Tube Cordovox especially the sustain circuit mechanics which
has not been available for 60 years or so. It had a unique circular copper
leafy multi contact device switched by a double layer electromagnet

most Organ Accordions had to sacrifice a reedbock just to fit the organ components.
Several transistor organ accordions built much if not all the sound generating
stuff into the accordion, as well as the Switching and Toggle layers of mechanics..
you betcha they were boat anchors even then, but if you strip all the old
useless junk out of one you still are stuck with a very woody, boxy, 3 reed
treble 4 reed bass accordion in the 24 to 32 pound range

cut corner examples to include the first Elkavox.. mock Bellows on a hinge
that was simply a volume control and a Sanovox with no reeds and that one
funny name organ accordion that was 1 note polypholy treble

and bear in mind these were dollar conscious price competitive instruments
that had to cut many corners on the acoustic side so as not to price themselves
right out of the market.. Accordion purchasers back then were not affluent or
collectors or even HAD any disposable income.. most of the families whose
kids who got into an accordion school/mill were from paycheck to paycheck
blue collar families for the most part.. affluent families could afford actual
music schools and programs rather than the 50 Cents per lesson for 12 weeks
(including accordion rental and all teaching materials) offered by accordion mills

point: how much money was iinvested in the build and quality of the
12 bass accordions ? that the accordion mill had to pre-purchase by
the hundreds and immediately put to risk.. there was no "rental deposit"
involved or the families would be priced out of the program right off the bat

to rebuild most organ accordions, even if you manage to snag the schematics,
you would need an engineer with oodles of time on his hands to
re-create some components from scratch, and nearly an
unlimited budget for the similar but available parts and replacement labor costs..
there are literally miles of wiring inside some of these

lotsa luck !

oh, and the Tube C-Vox was pretty raw, but had all the flute footages and
the clean Lowrey tone that was very competitive to the pure Hammond sound,
just not incremental.. it also had a nice dirty overdrive through a 12au7 pre-amp
and twin 12" alinco magnet speakers.. it Rocked
 
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Hello I'm looking at purchasing an Elkavox accordion that has built in mics as well as tone generator. However the onboard mics don't work without the tone generator as they need power. Has anyone modified theirs to work without the tone generator or should I just remove the onboard mics and install my own?

Thanks
Most Elkavox that used the power via the tone generator to power the mic’s came needing power that way. That said I clearly recall being asked if I wanted to use batteries to power the mic’s and that this would disable the internal power source.
The process was/is possible with MY version of the Elkavox, but as mentioned there were many versions. Post a pic to see if it is the same s mine.

Heads up, that warning about these models being so old they may not work at all is very valid.
 
Most Elkavox that used the power via the tone generator to power the mic’s came needing power that way. That said I clearly recall being asked if I wanted to use batteries to power the mic’s and that this would disable the internal power source.
The process was/is possible with MY version of the Elkavox, but as mentioned there were many versions. Post a pic to see if it is the same s mine.

Heads up, that warning about these models being so old they may not work at all is very valid.
This is the accordion and the circuit is the mic circuit. I found the 2 power wires on the connector that supply power to the amplifier board and I looked up the chip model . I have a rough guess on what the voltage is although I'm not too sure . If I had to guess around 9v DC. Also, is the audio connector a stereo jack ? It has 3 prongs and I'm not sure how that works with amplifiers .
 

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The electronics work for a fact I just didn't want to spend extra money on the tone generator since I I don't have a need for it although I don't want to hack up the accordion . The tone generator for me is pointless since it doesn't sound good I just want to use the internal mics
 

the tl082 is a dual op amp that runs nicely off a single ended power supply
such as a 9 volt battery, pin 8 is V+ pin 4 is V- (ground)

yes, typically a 3 prong jack means this would have been wired in "Stereo"
with the treble = tip
the Bass = middle
ground = base
some mixers accept a stereo input


some people use a custom cable with a stereo plug on one end and two
mono plugs on the other, or a breakout cable


it looks like a nice circuit with the OpAmp being socketed

general oxidation can sometimes be an issue on old circuits, but here you
could carefully lift the op-amp out then re-insert it if necessary

the capacitors do not look swollen, so that's good

if you need to, figure out which Caps are the audio signal coupling capacitors
(that feed the jack) and improve them with Tantalum Caps

remember, old wiring can fail from cracked insulation,
so follow the shielded cabling to the Mic capsules themselves
and isolate then test for shorts if you need to troubleshoot the circuit

you may or may not need to isolate the power input and disconnect it
from the rest of the Elka circuitry, then wire in the 9Volt battery.. the overall
old circuitry might drain your battery back into the rest of the electronics
if not isolated (a diode inline from the old V+ trace should do)

good luck
 
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acoustically, that looks like it may be a nice one, the bass shifts
suggest a full 5 reed bass, the bellows look clean, the rhinestone
decoration has a more modern look in it's artistic layout so i wonder
if that was added this century and the box buffed up and refurbished ?

enjoy
 
someone can correct me if I’m wrong but that looks like an elkavox 83, if so some of the tone generators have an adapter board for midi out. That definitely increases the utility of this instrument with that feature (if it still works).
 
This is the accordion and the circuit is the mic circuit. I found the 2 power wires on the connector that supply power to the amplifier board and I looked up the chip model . I have a rough guess on what the voltage is although I'm not too sure . If I had to guess around 9v DC. Also, is the audio connector a stereo jack ? It has 3 prongs and I'm not sure how that works with amplifiers .
It is somewhat common to use a stereo socket on a mono plug and use the non-existent "ring" for switching on battery power when the plug is inserted. Could be that.
 
acoustically, that looks like it may be a nice one, the bass shifts
suggest a full 5 reed bass, the bellows look clean, the rhinestone
decoration has a more modern look in it's artistic layout so i wonder
if that was added this century and the box buffed up and refurbished ?

enjoy
I don't mean to sound odd when I say this but it's the sexiest and best sounding accordion I've ever used. I wouldn't ever want anything else
 
someone can correct me if I’m wrong but that looks like an elkavox 83, if so some of the tone generators have an adapter board for midi out. That definitely increases the utility of this instrument with that feature (if it still works).
If you know where to get one I'd be very interested. I'm considering buying the tone generator
 
Here’s a thread this topic is discussed and the various options.

 
I don't mean to sound odd when I say this but it's the sexiest and best sounding accordion I've ever used. I wouldn't ever want anything else
If that is so, you may be disappointed at what the organ part adds to the equation. A MIDI out would allow you to add arrangers and use the accordion for transcribing music. The pure analog output will probably not knock your socks off. It would be nice-to-have to demo the accordion's original "mind space", but probably not essential for your ongoing enjoyment.

EDIT: it would appear that Jerry has thorough personal experience with that model instead of cursory handwavy exposure to the general family of hybrid instruments. I let this comment stand here for reference, but for your model in particular it would make a lot more sense to listen to his expertise than my not-much-better-than-hearsay comment.
 
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someone can correct me if I’m wrong but that looks like an elkavox 83, if so some of the tone generators have an adapter board for midi out. That definitely increases the utility of this instrument with that feature (if it still works).
It does, this is very similar to the one that I own. They came in many variations (3 different levels of reeds, with/without cassotto, with/without MIDI). Mine was the top of the line model with hand made reeds and Cassotto. Mine also has the optional MIDI out installed on the tone generator.

1700400696036.png

To answer the question, yes the jack is a stereo jack with the controls for the left and right hands individually controlled. The original cable is a "Y" cable... one stereo jack that splits in to 2 mono inputs. Though I still have the original one, it developed a broken wire at the "Y" connection and I replaced it with a new one decades ago.
As far as the tone generator not sounding good, there has to be something wrong. The electric sounds of the Elka may be dated but they are high quality... not even the Roland 8X has as high a quality trumpet sound as this accordion has. I've spent many an hour enjoying this accordion.

@jdam01 : Please feel free to document your process, I may wish to duplicate the process. I also have the schematics for my accordion, including the tone generator. Let me know if I can be of any assistance.
 
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The electronics work for a fact I just didn't want to spend extra money on the tone generator since I I don't have a need for it although I don't want to hack up the accordion . The tone generator for me is pointless since it doesn't sound good I just want to use the internal mics
Oh man, though I respect everyone's choices, I feel you REALLY should have. If it was working right as that is where the real joy of this accordion come in and is what made the Elkavox the legend that it was. In the 80's this was THE most advanced electronic accordion on the market and the sonic varieties it offered were above anything on the market (times 10 if it had the optional MIDI module installed!).

An Elka 83 in good condition in the right hands of a knowledgeable player can sound great. The organ section is superior to the Cordavox, the solo instruments did justice to the real instruments and it's ability to mix/match combinations on the fly was so easy and intuitive that it was easy to mix match electric and acoustic combinations on the fly in the song with little effort... again, unless pre-programmed on the 8X, not something that the V-accordion can easily do.

Test file I made years ago on the Elka 83.
 
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It does, this is very similar to the one that I own. They came in many variations (3 different levels of reeds, with/without cassotto, with/without MIDI). Mine was the top of the line model with hand made reeds and Cassotto. Mine also has the optional MIDI out installed on the tone generator.

1700400696036.png

To answer the question, yes the jack is a stereo jack with the controls for the left and right hands individually controlled. The original cable is a "Y" cable... one stereo jack that splits in to 2 mono inputs. Though I still have the original one, it developed a broken wire at the "Y" connection and I replaced it with a new one decades ago.
As far as the tone generator not sounding good, there has to be something wrong. The electric sounds of the Elka may be dated but they are high quality... not even the Roland 8X has as high a quality trumpet sound as this accordion has. I've spent many an hour enjoying this accordion.

@jdam01 : Please feel free to document your process, I may wish to duplicate the process. I also have the schematics for my accordion, including the tone generator. Let me know if I can be of any assistance.
I will probably map out the pins for the microphone power so that people can use the onboard mics and not have to deal with paying some to revamp the system. Within a week I'll get the tone generator and make a video
 
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