Zero Sette - Giuletti - Petosa

[Walker]

Agreed, weight is a major factor if you want to take your accordion out and about. Also agreed that many big accordion are way excessive from the music that you hear coming out of them....

I might easily come to resent playing an accordion above 12.5kg that I have to carry myself .

That said, the big Petosa Cathedral above is a masterpiece and way beyond my capabilities.

I would go for something quite similar, but a slightly 'reduced' version - with only 4 treble voices, 120 bass and compact 45 note keyboard (it has 18mm keys). That brings it's overall length down to around a 41 note size. This is the Zero Sette B29 - 45 G.R. MF compact:

It is not likely to be a Rolls Royce like the Petosa is, but I think it would be pretty impressive nonetheless.

 

[Ben-jammin]

There’s at least one shop in the US that has their house brand built by the Zero Sette/Bugari factory. They don’t advertise it but if asked they will tell you. They do make it a point to say they are built to spec and not the same models offered by the OEM brands.

 

[saundersbp]

There’s at least one shop in the US that has their house brand built by the Zero Sette/Bugari factory. They don’t advertise it but if asked they will tell you. They do make it a point to say they are built to spec

Indeed there is. Having several times played and listened to comparable models from the same factory and same period with different brand names they sound and feel identical.

 

[Frank Barocco]

Kind of an old thread, but recently I had a chance to talk to a Bugari representative, and the official statement is that though the same factory produces all (Bugari, Zero-Sette, Giulietti, Petosa), if you take comparable models from each of these brands they are using different working processes, different woods and different reeds, not just different aesthetics. And they claim to be staying true to the way each of these instruments was produced in the past.

 

[Ventura]

my understanding was that when Zero went legally (and almost completely) belly-up,
it was sudden, and a scramble. The Bugari facility had some room ro share
but not everything (especially larger stuff) made the transition/was saved
from the sprawling old factory.

i also understood this to be a huge kindness among friends (ownership)
and the Zero 'shift" was, similar to the Settimo/Silvio situation decades earlier,
an overnight crew comprised of Zero employees/craftsmen

most significantly, the body forms were lost, which is why the original Models of
Petosa and Giulietti are history, and the newer line is a look-alike, or they just
had "new improved" models, or some other face saving story for their adoring
public to hear.

in other words, they were sharing Bugari body forms, but they rest was Zero
type mechanicals, finishing, reedwork, Provino/finishing/tuning thought process

so if there is a model of AM from the golden days you are going all fanboy over,
you gotta find an old one and re-build it.. the new ones are different.. that may or
may not be a good thing.. but they are not the same.. parts will not interchange..

and Zero lost the right to build and market to eastern Europe certain Giulietti models
independantly of the American Family/Ownership/factory - which was a huge "perk"
they quietly enjoyed throughout many decades

cut to today, reports of the "merging" of the product lines being more due to
death, retirement, new workers, more sharing of common components like
those provided more and more by specialized 3rd parties (actions, plastics, etc.)
so there is only one real workcrew overall now, with perhaps a few dedicated to
Zero production/finishing (similar to how PierMaria always had their own
small core specialists working inside SEM or IMF)

Petosa has a big investment in a few exclusive talking points regarding
the type of wood for the tone chamber, the cool new blue reeds some
people are going GaGa over, and so they pay obviously a premium
to keep those things exclusive or they wouldn't be able to maintain
their retail price points

Bugari has, of course, some very seriously premium and different models
(geometrically speaking) that they certainly will keep exclusively to themselves
as long as possible, because they directly compete in a rarefied upper strata
with Pigini

it is certainly safe to say, certain top-end models, even if there is a look alike
under some other name, the superior build will have the name "Bugari"
but the finishing and reeds and tuning may have a different "flavor"

for a long long time, Giulietti was THE thorn in Petosa's side.. that they
were able to talk the remaining Family into allowing them to (sort of)
revive the Giulietti brand is similar to when Baldwin finally, after a lifetime
of hate and envy, bought out Wurlitzer

they both only did this to nail the products to the floor, as we say in Retail,
and control their biggest competitor

that is my analysis

 

[Thomas N]

Interesting information, Ventura.

Are there any "old-school" accordion manufacturers left in the world? I know Excelsior had their issues and are under different ownership. How about Victoria? Or is everything now kind of jumbled up into one big incestual family with minor cosmetic modifications the only distinguishable characteristic?

I am partial to Excelsior, owning a custom (2002) 960 with an AC Grill and Magnante keyboard, as well as my youth Van Damme 930 I've owned since around 1985. My accordion instructor ONLY played Excelsiors and had a vile disgust for other brands, and I guess that stuck with me.

 

[Ventura]

dunno.. the consumer driven focus from "back in the day" no longer
exists and never will again.. the AC the Cordovox, and many other
models, as were the custom cases/accessories from Nunzio and Mencaccini,
a response to the needs of professionals: and so the products, which
to a great extent were empirically and incrementally matured, served
those needs..

quality, consistency, reliability, survivability, and not least, bring
innovations large and small that gave those Pro's making a
living, advantages over the competition both for sales of the
instruments, and for preference in who-gets-the-gig

what are todays consumer driven needs ?

well the elite performer/student and the competition scene in
Europe is obviously what drives a lot of the current models
on the high end.. the kind of instruments and new designs that
serve this are not conducive to a Strolling Musician in a
New York Bistro, nor a touring Jazz player hitting the Blues Alley circuit..

then the ridiculously wealthy seniors who drive the leisure/hobby segment

and then again the genre specific small box specialists who have zero interest
in anything heavier than a kitty cat

the largest consumer driven future pressure on manufacturers designs will
obviously come from China.. will this mean something similar to the
hordes of LM instruments built to bleed money out of proud parents
back in the 50's and 60's, or will it mean more Symphony ready
GoldenTone production, so that not only the touring elite can have
one, but perhaps can also be owned by a hobbyist/casual player in
some Canton apartment.. the investment into Bugari suggests the more
noble end of the spectrum

hard to say.. but for sure our classic Golden Age accordions are a dwindling
supply, worth their weight in gold to some of us, worthless when our Widow's
liquidate our estates.. and the people who can legit fix and maintain them,
few and far between

 

[Tom]

Just got a quote on a full replacement brake job for my vehicle. More than I paid for my new Piatanesi. The world has gone lert. Guess I will have to discover a market for the classic golden agers around here so I can drive to the farmers market where on a good day I can make a smashing $10 per hour while the mechanic charges $200. Looks like I will get to play mechanic again. Life in paradise!

 

[Thomas N]

hard to say.. but for sure our classic Golden Age accordions are a dwindling
supply, worth their weight in gold to some of us, worthless when our Widow's
liquidate our estates.. and the people who can legit fix and maintain them,
few and far between

I think about this often Ventura. I'm mid-50's but you never know. My poor wife would have no idea where to go with my accordions and would most likely put them up somewhere for pennies. Best case, her next guy will be an accordionist and hit the mother lode. She has a whole two people to choose from.

 

[Ventura]

well, maybe have that guy from Oklahoma drive over
for a visit this summer..

it has been important for me, and somewhat successful, the placing
of some of my better accordions with the right people, and
so into the future.. that being worth equal to the dollar value..

 

[Ventura]

Just got a quote on a full replacement brake job for my vehicle. More than I paid for my new Piatanesi. The world has gone lert. Guess I will have to discover a market for the classic golden agers around here so I can drive to the farmers market where on a good day I can make a smashing $10 per hour while the mechanic charges $200. Life in paradise!

luckily, i can still do a lot of automotive work myself,
but the days of this are approaching an end..

now, my Wife depends seriously on her wheels, schlepping her friends
to and fro for Religious gatherings across a wide area, then the
taking care of her Alzheimer parents up in PA. Used to get her a
new Taurus Wagon every 3 years.. switched to Town and Country
when they stopped making the Ford..

then they stopped making T&C in 2016.. so i bought her one last new one,
the nicest touring model i could find.. got the lifetime Chrysler
extended warranty (which paid off with a new transmission recently)
but mainly i preventative maintain the vehicle like crazy.. hung new
pads every 20,000 miles or so.. last year i dropped new rotors and pads
and sliders on it.. choosing better quality parts is an added benefit of DOitmyself

if you never let the calipers stretch out the pistons, they last a really long time
as getting dirty/crusty and kinked seems to be what makes them stick and kills them

hell i put 2 new tires on the drive wheels every 20,000 and rotate
the old ones to the back.. these investments pay off in ways that
are important to me.. i closely supervise the tire installation too,
my trusty old 20" Williams Tools Breaker bar checks the lugs..

your current experience is the new normal, yes, and not much
you can do except say hell with it and trade it in on a new 4 door Truck

i recommend the Ford 4WD with the crazy V6 twin turbo and 10 speed tranny..
it is a beast.. all aluminum never rust body.. step-ladder hidden in
the tailgate

 

[Ventura]

Just got a quote on a full replacement brake job for my vehicle. More than I paid for my new Piatanesi. The world has gone lert. Guess I will have to discover a market for the classic golden agers around here so I can drive to the farmers market where on a good day I can make a smashing $10 per hour while the mechanic charges $200. Life in paradise!

luckily, i can still do a lot of automotive work myself,
but the days of this are approaching an end..

now, my Wife depends seriously on her wheels, schlepping her friends
to and fro for Religious gatherings across a wide area, then the
taking care of her Alzheimer parents up in PA. Used to get her a
new Taurus Wagon every 3 years.. switched to Town and Country
when they stopped making the Ford..

then they stopped making T&C in 2016.. so i bought her one last new one,
the nicest touring model i could find.. got the lifetime Chrysler
extended warranty (which paid off with a new transmission recently)
but mainly i preventative maintain the vehicle like crazy.. hung new
pads every 20,000 miles or so.. last year i dropped new rotors and pads
and sliders on it.. choosing better quality parts is an added benefit of DOitmyself

if you never let the calipers stretch out the pistons, they last a really long time
as getting dirty/crusty and kinked seems to be what makes them stick and kills them

hell i put 2 new tires on the drive wheels every 20,000 and rotate
the old ones to the back.. these investments pay off in ways that
are important to me.. i closely supervise the tire installation too,
my trusty old 20" Williams Tools Breaker bar checks the lugs..

your current experience is the new normal, yes, and not much
you can do except say hell with it and trade it in on a new 4 door Truck

i recommend the Ford 4WD with the crazy V6 twin turbo and 10 speed tranny..
it is a beast.. all aluminum never rust body.. step-ladder hidden in
the tailgate

 

[Tom]

luckily, i can still do a lot of automotive work myself,
but the days of this are approaching an end..

now, my Wife depends seriously on her wheels, schlepping her friends
to and fro for Religious gatherings across a wide area, then the
taking care of her Alzheimer parents up in PA. Used to get her a
new Taurus Wagon every 3 years.. switched to Town and Country
when they stopped making the Ford..

then they stopped making T&C in 2016.. so i bought her one last new one,
the nicest touring model i could find.. got the lifetime Chrysler
extended warranty (which paid off with a new transmission recently)
but mainly i preventative maintain the vehicle like crazy.. hung new
pads every 20,000 miles or so.. last year i dropped new rotors and pads
and sliders on it.. choosing better quality parts is an added benefit of DOitmyself

if you never let the calipers stretch out the pistons, they last a really long time
as getting dirty/crusty and kinked seems to be what makes them stick and kills them

hell i put 2 new tires on the drive wheels every 20,000 and rotate
the old ones to the back.. these investments pay off in ways that
are important to me.. i closely supervise the tire installation too,
my trusty old 20" Williams Tools Breaker bar checks the lugs..

your current experience is the new normal, yes, and not much
you can do except say hell with it and trade it in on a new 4 door Truck

i recommend the Ford 4WD with the crazy V6 twin turbo and 10 speed tranny..
it is a beast.. all aluminum never rust body.. step-ladder hidden in
the tailgate

Even a new two door truck would be ok! Trying to get 300,000 on this vehicle. I used to do all my car maintenance. Now that finding a reasonable car mechanic is worse than finding a reasonable accordion mechanic it looks like it’s back to the garage for yours truly. Guess I can at least use that breaker bar for clearing a jumped pin on the bass side…….

 

[Ventura]

rying to get 300,000 on this vehicle.

ahh yes.. our lofty goal when younger was nothing left our hands
unless it was going straight to the Junkyard

but our needs change.. now, reliability, low stress on our free-time,
an air conditioner that actually works, hit the gas and it takes off
like a rabbit..

you can keep the 300,000 miler in the barn.. roll it out to wash
and (sort of) work on once a year just for bragging rights

 

[Tom]

ahh yes.. our lofty goal when younger was nothing left our hands
unless it was going straight to the Junkyard

but our needs change.. now, reliability, low stress on our free-time,
an air conditioner that actually works, hit the gas and it takes off
like a rabbit..

you can keep the 300,000 miler in the barn.. roll it out to wash
and (sort of) work on once a year just for bragging rights

Or give it to my son, let him get his hands dirty and learn something. He has less money than need for AC!

 

[John M]

. . . if you never let the calipers stretch out the pistons, they last a really long time
as getting dirty/crusty and kinked seems to be what makes them stick and kills them. . .

Great advice, if you can do it. A story from a friend of mine that was going to replace his pads on a 2023 GM vehicle.

He bought pads and rotors at an Auto parts store. He went home, jacked up the car, and compressed the calipers. After, he got the calipers off, he noticed that they completely closed shut. He tried spreading them open with a crowbar and other tools, but no luck. He called the GM dealer to explain the problem. The Technician said "only a Certified GM Mechanic is supposed to replace them. GM has determined that Brakes are a safety issue and should only be replaced by a "professional". You will have to bring your vehicle to our shop where we have the correct "codes" to open your calipers and replace the pads/rotors. So, my friend had to call a tow truck, have it "flat bedded" to the dealer, where they replaced the pads/rotors with GM OEM parts (which aren't cheap) and the labor cost for installation. Also, he took his pads/rotors back to the Auto parts store.

Needless to say, he wasn't very happy with all the wasted time and expense.

 

[OuijaBoard]

Kind of an old thread, but recently I had a chance to talk to a Bugari representative, and the official statement is that though the same factory produces all (Bugari, Zero-Sette, Giulietti, Petosa), if you take comparable models from each of these brands they are using different working processes, different woods and different reeds, not just different aesthetics. And they claim to be staying true to the way each of these instruments was produced in the past.

U.S. Bugari dealers addition to Petosa also include Emilio Magnotti at Emilio Accordions on the East Coast, and Kevin Solecki of Carnegie Accordions in Philly. Carnegie Accordions also does a "house brand" that supposedly is produced at the Bugari concern. "Solloni" accordions. The Philly one must have friendly cooperation going on with Emilio Accordions, as I saw the Emilio tag on the back of a new 34/72 Bugari J115 in stock at Carnegie last year-they had a number of Bugaris in that model in different jewel-toned colors, and they move them. Both of those outfits move Bugaris at least in that size. I see they offer all the sizes, not sure what is in stock at any given time.

I do see the price they're posting for that model has gone up $300, from $4K with TAM as of last year, to $4300 now.