Tiny piccolo reed tuning

[jollyrogeraccordions]

I find the most challenging reeds to tweak up or down are the tiniest piccolo reeds..way up in the C7 plus range. Often they go off because they've got dirt on them, and cleaning is enough to bring them back. But for sharpening is there a particular technique that works for the smallest little reeds, that often seem no thicker than tin foil at the tip? On the very highest reeds just touching them is enough to alter the voicing and render them silent.

 

[JerryPH]

Though I am definitely no expert and haven't fully got in to tuning yet... and I am one of those people that would send my box out to people like you (lol)... I would say perhaps that there are a couple of suggestions I would imagine would help:

- use good magnification beyond glasses. The sharper and "bigger" we see the area we are going to work on, the more accurate our movements will be

- make sure the reed block or reed are well supported and cannot move, the smallest movement could intensify whatever adjustment we want to make

- Files are definitely out of the question here... the adjustments made are too aggressive. Use a fine scratcher, but use one that is very very sharp and use it with exteme gentleness.

- when lifting a reed tongue in preparation for scratching it, use something VERY thin underneath it (perhaps the tongue of an old reed that was broken and has been thinned out and sharpened along one edge to make slipping it under a little easier), and all motions are truly feather light and minimal

I hope that gives you some ideas.

 

[debra]

First of all, this applies only to the reeds that are (normally) mounted upside down on the reed block. (No technique really works when the reeds are not upside down or when they are mounted on the top of the reed block like in some rubbish Weltmeister accordions. Only removing the reeds, tuning, then putting them back really works there, at least for the reeds on the inside.)
You can reach inside the block with a very thin "feeler". With a blunt pin you can just ever so slightly push the reed inwards so that the feeler can slide under the reed. Then you can file very gently with a tiny very sharp file from Vallorbe. It's more like scratching than filing really. For a feeler a fragment from a (deliberately) broken razor blade works well. It is and will always remain a very delicate job, but once you master it you can tune piccolo reeds without altering the voicing at all.
The only cases where this technique fails is when the reeds have already been messed with by a repairer who lacks these skills. For these cases I keep a supply of new piccolo reeds handy. When I was the first one to touch the reeds since the accordion left the factory I have never needed to replace a piccolo reeds since I learned to do tuning properly. There really is a big difference between an accordion tuner and an accordion butcher! (Sadly there are more of the second kind than of the first, and they all call themselves professional repairers.)

 

[Mr Mark]

It has been some time since I have destroyed a few piccolo's. It has also been some time since I touched any . Ok that happened in one accordion and I was learning.

The two keys to scratching or filing any reed is proper reed support, AND, the right angle on the implement of choice.

For proper support I have used strips of metal banding shaped to fit the reed hole (in the reedplate) and support the reed. For outer reed support this is a little more tricky but the alternative is potentially bending the reed because the support you are using is too thick and voila (via feeler method), goodbye voicing. Initially this takes quite a bit of time to shape (file) and bend the piece as needed, but the lack of stress during tuning is totally worth it. I would rather have something out of tune than messed up voicing, so I don't use feelers for these anymore.

For filing (inside reeds), I use a stick with some fine grit sandpaper glued onto it, fit it into the soundhole of the reed block and sand towards the tip, never the other way (or you will fold the tinfoil). Outside reeds I will also use sandpaper when they are that small.

Mostly it is all in the preparation of the reed support, everything else is easy.

Two other things that aid greatly are a) 6.0x reading glasses (so you can properly see that your sanding or filing angle matches the reed angle - thereby not folding the reed) and b) light. I have several lights from different angles, but am really liking my headband LED light, that is in itself a band of light. This kind of thing > https://www.amazon.ca/Rechargeable-Flashlight-Headlight-Adjustable-Waterproof/dp/B09KCB8Q4R/ref=sr_1_2?crid=CI8FH7A7V7TB&keywords=headband+led&qid=1696290805&sprefix=heaband+led,aps,171&sr=8-2&th=1

Even just posting this stresses me out thinking about it

 

[jollyrogeraccordions]

Thanks folks. I think I'd already got the techniques mentioned, except the upside down inside reeds - supporting inside the reed chamber with a thin feeler gauge and working the tip of the reed *inside* the chamber. Works v well.

 

[debra]

Thanks folks. I think I'd already got the techniques mentioned, except the upside down inside reeds - supporting inside the reed chamber with a thin feeler gauge and working the tip of the reed *inside* the chamber. Works v well.

You do have to be careful though because some accordions' piccolo reed block (side) may have the inside only reachable at an angle so the feeler gauge cannot really go under the reed without bending it. In that case you can also not really file the reed safely as the file will also be at the wrong angle.
My first repair teacher told me: when you cannot comfortably work on the inside reed tip, take out the reed plate to work on the reed. Better safe than sorry!

 

[jollyrogeraccordions]

Thanks Paul. Obvs I do apply common sense when tuning and the reed gets popped off if required. In this case the inverted reeds are nice and accessible. Also, it being a 37 key PA it doesn't have the really microscopic upper reeds. On the other hand it's got a double cassotto and some mic wiring.

 

[Pipemajor]

Thanks Paul. Obvs I do apply common sense when tuning and the reed gets popped off if required. In this case the inverted reeds are nice and accessible. Also, it being a 37 key PA it doesn't have the really microscopic upper reeds. On the other hand it's got a double cassotto and some mic wiring.

I always wondered why those reeds were mounted upside down.
At first I thought someone gad made a mistake putting them in, then realised it was deliberate.
Perhaps one of the experts could enlighten us mere plebs

 

[JerryPH]

Well, only 2 possible answer from one pleb to another... lol

- easier/safer to mount
- reed responds better

 

[debra]

Well, only 2 possible answer from one pleb to another... lol

- easier/safer to mount
- reed responds better

It's
1: easier/safer to tune (mounting is just as easy or difficult either way);
2: supposedly the sound comes out more directly (the reed tip being closest to the soundboard (and thus to the "exit").
I have never experienced a difference in response or sound. I have done tuning on an accordion that came with the reed plates mounted straight up (not upside down). It was more difficult, but there was no problem with the sound or the response. It was a Fisart, but too old to know for sure that this was the factory-standard way of mounting the reeds.

 

[JerryPH]

I noticed this was done on my Gola too.

 

[jollyrogeraccordions]

It's an interesting question. I thought it was connected to how the little reeds respond but that doesn’t seem to he the case. Certainly it makes the inside reed a bit easier to tune (and a 'duh' to me for not realising this). I might hop onto Melnet and ask there.

 

[debra]

It's an interesting question. I thought it was connected to how the little reeds respond but that doesn’t seem to he the case. Certainly it makes the inside reed a bit easier to tune (and a 'duh' to me for not realising this). I might hop onto Melnet and ask there.

On most accordions, as you go up the scales the last reed to still have a valve is typically either C6 or C#6. Then you get reeds without valves that are in the normal orientation, going up to A6. From A#6 onwards the reeds are upside down.
That thus leaves quite a few notes with ever smaller and smaller reeds (D6 up to and including A6) that are a pain to tune. I still dare to pull out the inside reed on D6 and maybe D#6 but after that the reed tongues will bend out of shape if I try this. Those reeds may be tuned up by supporting them from inside and then scratching the tip from outside, very gently (I tend to need about 20 scratches for a 1 cent difference). Whenever in doubt the reed plate has to come out to do the inside reed. Not only are these notes the most difficult to tune, the higher ones (F#, G, G#, A) are notes I do not have in my stockpile of old reeds taken from junker accordions as these junkers are all smaller accordions that don't have these high notes (and have no piccolo either... So far I have always been able to tune these reeds without ruining them, but it's not a walk in the park.

 

[kimric]

I typically remove the smallest piccolo reeds to tune them, It is just to easy to bamage the inner reed trying to tune it blind. This was based on advice given to me by V Cirrelli.
Flipping the reeds over does affect response, i get chinese instruments in that can have problems with the highest reeds (typically button accordions) the reeds generally seem to speak better when flipped, but will need to be retuned.
Gapping and the progress of the gap from base to tip is critical here.