The Price of Everything and the Value of Nothing

[henry d]

In another thread (Flutina Resurrection) a discussion takes place on …wait for it- resurrecting a 150 year old flutina; a single voice diatonic instrument albeit fully chromatic with two drones (a feature only pipers or a mother could love) and a eumongous air valve to go with the small capacity bellows. At their best not particularly agile but perhaps personally satisfying to knock out a tune on.



I fully endorse the concept- and have in point of fact resurrected one myself with, well, the end result of a serviceable flutina to show for it.



A recurrent theme on posts where Aunt Myrtle’s old accordion, or a be-rhinestoned instrument from the twenties or thirties, or some other colorful old beast with equally colorful tuning and leaky valves, is that “you’ll never get your money back if you repair it for thousands.”



OK- I’ll buy that- but I, and many of the posters simply want to relish making music because they enjoy it. There’s no interest in prancing about on stage or joining some semi pro accordion orchestra. Just as with the assessment offered freely by classical instrumentalists on the technique of many great jazz musicians –“Good enough for jazz” - many of these old accordions are still "good enough for music". Many are quite good enough for folks to enjoy themselves and, should they in the fullness of time- having played extensively on the colorful old beast- wish to upgrade to a serious instrument they will need both due diligence and a substantial wallet.



One can of course go to a shop and have all the work done to the old instrument and it will indeed cost a substantial sum for the full monty and yes, unless it was made famous by some gifted player who had his picture taken with one- whether or not he actually played that model himself- you won’t get your money back.



You might enjoy it an awful lot though.



There is, of course, value to pointing out to someone who is at point zero that some instruments are cosmetically OK on the outside but complexly trashed on the inside-and some clearly are- but to pounce on any and every old instrument as “cost you thousands” or sells locally for chump change is a disservice to the "just want to make music for enjoyment" novice/hobbyist/been playing away for my own pleasure for decades readers.



The flutina being rehabilitated, fully functional, is still going to be a flutina… and there’s a reason they’re best known as props for daguerreotypes, second only to cute lap dogs. They aren’t ever liable to command a high price, but they may well have real value to the player who owns one.

 

[dak]

Just as with the snobbish commentary offered freely by classical instrumentalists on the technique of many great jazz musicians –“Good enough for jazz” (delivered with a smirk).

Can we make do without that kind of grievance-mongering?

Thank you.

 

[henry d]

Can we make do without that kind of grievance-mongering?

Thank you.

Amended to avoid raising your hackles with apologies!

Having relatives working in the NYC musical world it's hard to avoid the divide twixt the classical performers and the jazz world. Admiring denizens of both worlds- and taking to heart John Coltrane's oft quoted "You can play a shoe string if you're sincere" (taking it, but with a grain of salt...) I suppose it's become something of a festering sore for me. And as with most such issues there's no reason for me to inflict it on others out of the blue- especially here on an accordion chat board!

I suppose the closest analogy here would be twixt CBA/PS/and the diatonic universe. All equally meritorious in their own niche with no "better" to any category- just different.

 

[dak]

I suppose the closest analogy here would be twixt CBA/PS/and the diatonic universe.

I don't really see that kind of denigration between players of the various types of instrument in this forum. And I hope I don't come across in that manner. People venturing into new domains tend to be applauded and their experiments followed with interest. It's one of the things I like about this community.

 

[Ffingers]

Can we make do without that kind of grievance-mongering?

Thank you.

That is entirely uncalled for.
As some one with considerable lateral experience of many genres of music and art, I can validate the concept that there are altogether too many people for whom "purity of thought and action" within their preferred artistic bubbles borders on outright snobbery, much to the devaluing of that category.
Not that small and narrow mindedness is confined to those engaged in highbrow pursuits by any means, - denegration of others' tastes and behaviours being a very normal human predeliction, - but it is very often practiced by those for whom status and conformity are paramount concerns.
Music is, first and foremost, for enjoyment and the ways in which that enjoyment is achieved inevitably very personal and, like most human qualities, often subject to unwarranted and adverse scrutiny and criticism.
That is where henry d's post is 'right on the mark', in my not-so-humble opinion.

 

[Ffingers]

I don't really see that kind of denigration between players of the various types of instrument in this forum. And I hope I don't come across in that manner. People venturing into new domains tend to be applauded and their experiments followed with interest. It's one of the things I like about this community.

In strict reference to this forum, I agree. People here tend to be most generous with their time, knowledge and experiences.
In the broader world, it is not so.
Even being interested in things as "odd" as accordions raises a few eyebrows and elicits scorn from those for whom any deviation from 'normal' is seen as worthy of adverse comment and denegration.
I'm fortunate in that I now live in an unusually diverse and encouraging small community/village but in my long lifetime I have encountered very much of the opposite.
Eccentricity is very much undervalued, a great loss to our societies in general.

 

[Xiane]

OK- I’ll buy that- but I, and many of the posters simply want to relish making music because they enjoy it. There’s no interest in prancing about on stage or joining some semi pro accordion orchestra. Just as with the assessment offered freely by classical instrumentalists on the technique of many great jazz musicians –“Good enough for jazz” - many of these old accordions are still "good enough for music". Many are quite good enough for folks to enjoy themselves and, should they in the fullness of time- having played extensively on the colorful old beast- wish to upgrade to a serious instrument they will need both due diligence and a substantial wallet.

So you might find this interesting. We were friends with a couple, one of whom was a professional violinist, first chair in major city orchestra, some fairly renowned recordings of Bach, etc. His partner was an accompanist, also highly regarded. I asked them what music they couldn't play if they tried.

His answer, immediately "Bluegrass, no way, never could do it." And he would just nail various classical violin"Show Off Pieces" (his words).
Hers, "Bebop. Nope. Tried it, couldn't ever make it sound right. I was doing the right notes, but not the right feel."

 

[Dingo40]

one of whom was a professional violinist, first chair in major city orchestra,

So, what what standard tuning did he use?

 

[Xiane]

So, what what standard tuning did he use?

He was so far beyond me, I haven't clue.

 

[Snoopz]

There is, of course, value to pointing out to someone who is at point zero that some instruments are cosmetically OK on the outside but complexly trashed on the inside-and some clearly are- but to pounce on any and every old instrument as “cost you thousands” or sells locally for chump change is a disservice to the "just want to make music for enjoyment" novice/hobbyist/been playing away for my own pleasure for decades readers.

I understand where you're coming from. But on the other hand I think it's a very good idea to tell people that just want to sell the box with maximum return on investment what the repair of their accordion will cost and that repair cost can only very seldomly be recovered, just like with used cars. In that world I witnessed it often enough -- people invest hundreds if not thousands into their cars before selling and then come back crying that in the end, they made a solid loss on the sale. Bluntness is probably best in those cases.

If someone is seriously interested in playing an inherited accordion, it's good to point out faults like floppy valves etc and that at some point they will probably want to fix those faults for further musical evolution. And also subtly hint that it may just be possible that it's cheaper to buy a "new" box instead of investing in the old one if there is not too much emotional value attached to it. Or of course learn to diy to save on the labor cost.

 

[henry d]

I think it's a very good idea to tell people that just want to sell the box with maximum return on investment what the repair of their accordion will cost

Sort of a separate discussion though clearly a novice would reasonably be expected to come to a site such as the Forum for advice and common courtesy would be served through a good faith answer.

That said, despite the notion that some of the boxes are "fix up and resell or into the landfill" (and that's true sometimes), I -personal foible- have a pronounced personal antipathy to the "fix it and flip it" approach to life. That applies to accordions which can still be used by the ignorant hoi paloi such as myself* or those absolute swine on HGTV buying up acceptable older houses and then tarting them up to sell them at prices well beyond the reach of a median income family. I suppose that undermines the "good business practices" approach to societal development. Right up there with unbelievably cheap interior mechanics on some "value priced" new instruments; "We've your money now; may the devil take the hindmost."

A stretched analogy for which I apologise but there it is.



*There are of course accordion shops which take snarled up instruments, whip them into shape, and keep otherwise decent instruments out of the previously referenced landfill. Many of there wind up with instruments which are serviceable- if not flawless- and which serve the community both by providing entry level accordions for someone to test the waters- and perhaps be perfectly content for the long term- and of course they charge as they should for the time, labor, and skill they pour into the instruments. Like most things in life, "flipping" is not black and white but covers the full spectrum.

 

[Snoopz]

Sort of a separate discussion though clearly a novice would reasonably be expected to come to a site such as the Forum for advice and common courtesy would be served through a good faith answer.

That said, despite the notion that some of the boxes are "fix up and resell or into the landfill" (and that's true sometimes), I -personal foible- have a pronounced personal antipathy to the "fix it and flip it" approach to life. That applies to accordions which can still be used by the ignorant hoi paloi such as myself or those absolute swine on HGTV buying up acceptable older houses and then tarting them up to sell them at prices well beyond the reach of a median income family. I suppose that undermines the "good business practices" approach to societal development. Right up there with unbelievably cheap interior mechanics on some "value priced" new instruments; "We've your money now; may the devil take the hindmost."

A stretched analogy for which I apologise but there it is.

I don’t follow your house flipper analogy here. Those guys do get positive returns on investment (usually), even though their MO May be questionable. That’s not true (in general) for accordions. Unless you can do the labour yourself you will never get a positive ROI. And even then it might very well be a zero sum game. The market is just too specialised imho.

Your other point of old accordions being useful to learn — totally. I started on grandad’s Minerva. But the guy who just inherited some box from somewhere that doesn’t have any emotional attachment at all, no space in his city flat and just asks for make model and value: you won’t make him reconsider selling. He’ll just think “weirdo, just answer my question already”. And he’ll also only be interested in maximum ROI, which - sadly - is most often “sell as is/for parts”. The only thing to hope for is that the seller is upfront about the state of the instrument. Most eBay listings here in Germany only say “used accordion, sounds good”, which doesn’t attract buyers en masse - those listings are up for months on end until someone takes the time to physically take a look.

 

[RYLUNDO]

The flutina being rehabilitated, fully functional, is still going to be a flutina…

I have never even heard of the Flutina instrument before. I looked up reference photos online to at least see what it may look like and it appears to just be a smaller diatonic two-row accordion. I'm curious, what kind of music is most commonly played with this type of instrument?

 

[Ffingers]

I have never even heard of the Flutina instrument before. I looked up reference photos online to at least see what it may look like and it appears to just be a smaller diatonic two-row accordion. I'm curious, what kind of music is most commonly played with this type of instrument?

It'a an historical very early emanation of the bellows driven free reed instrument.

The flutina

The flutina

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