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Price Drop on ROLANDS, what is signifigance?

Mike K

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Location
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Big drop in price, wondering if I should jump in. Does it mean they are coming out with something new, discontinuing or maybe nothing?


Roland recently announced a temporary price reduction on their V-Accordion line.

FR1X was $2999.99 Now $2099.99

FR4X
was $5199.399 Now $4349.99

FR8X
Was $7999.99 Now $5999.99

Email from Kraft Music
 
I believe there's a longer thread here from a month or two ago. The reason was they are now manufactured in China and thus the costs are lower.
 
the salient point to me would be whether or not Roland
pulls the tooling from FATAR and has it re-established in
a Chinese facility

the small roland's can be re-tooled from scratch, many methods
and materials could be employed for the same result

the big Roland's bass and treble keyboards were designed,
tooled, and manufactured in the Ronald/Siel factory in Italy
and are proprietary and unique and specific to the product.
This is what was significant when Roland shifted production
to FATAR as they closed Roland Europe for good, that they
contracted fully with FATAR and were locked in both by
legal agreement and Roland owned machine tooling
installed in the FATAR facility for exclusive use in the production
of contracted Roland accordions

so for Roland to shift production yet again, there are certain
specific and expensive things that will need to happen.

they could, of course, change to an entirely different keyboard
BUT how difficult would that be ? is there anything else of similar
size and function currently in existence that could be borrowed
as a basis for something customized to an accordion build ?
(don't forget the aftertouch) and if they did that, how would it
compare in quality to the original tooling ?

they could conclude with finality their contract with FATAR and
move the tooling to China, which would then mean irrevocably
severing all ties between Italy and Roland accordions. This would
be expensive, require newly trained operators/assemblers, and
would halt production for a period of time (zero profits) as well
as loss of implied quality (similar to American accordion brands
pretending they own factories in Italy)

or they could leave things as they are, assuming they have
no interest in anything other than allowing manufacturing to
continue sporadically and as needed until the line has finally
run it's course (assuming they have abandoned any intention of
furthering the line into the future with improvements, leaving
the current situation in place is the most profitable choice)

in my opinion, if you follow the tooling, you will eventually find the answers
to most of these questions/speculations
 
the salient point to me would be whether or not Roland
pulls the tooling from FATAR and has it re-established in
a Chinese facility

the small roland's can be re-tooled from scratch, many methods
and materials could be employed for the same result

the big Roland's bass and treble keyboards were designed,
tooled, and manufactured in the Ronald/Siel factory in Italy
and are proprietary and unique and specific to the product.
This is what was significant when Roland shifted production
to FATAR as they closed Roland Europe for good, that they
contracted fully with FATAR and were locked in both by
legal agreement and Roland owned machine tooling
installed in the FATAR facility for exclusive use in the production
of contracted Roland accordions

so for Roland to shift production yet again, there are certain
specific and expensive things that will need to happen.

they could, of course, change to an entirely different keyboard
BUT how difficult would that be ? is there anything else of similar
size and function currently in existence that could be borrowed
as a basis for something customized to an accordion build ?
(don't forget the aftertouch) and if they did that, how would it
compare in quality to the original tooling ?

they could conclude with finality their contract with FATAR and
move the tooling to China, which would then mean irrevocably
severing all ties between Italy and Roland accordions. This would
be expensive, require newly trained operators/assemblers, and
would halt production for a period of time (zero profits) as well
as loss of implied quality (similar to American accordion brands
pretending they own factories in Italy)

or they could leave things as they are, assuming they have
no interest in anything other than allowing manufacturing to
continue sporadically and as needed until the line has finally
run it's course (assuming they have abandoned any intention of
furthering the line into the future with improvements, leaving
the current situation in place is the most profitable choice)

in my opinion, if you follow the tooling, you will eventually find the answers
to most of these questions/speculations
Hmmm. Over at one of the FB groups, A guy swapped out a Bugari EVO keyboard for a different one that looks better in that accordion. I don’t know if there was an actual problem other than aesthetics with the first one. But it got me thinking. Could a Roland FR-8x or FR-4x piano style keyboard be replaced by the CBA style keyboard? I asked him that question. He said that it could be done, and he was ready to get me prices and that after that I could ship him my instrument and he’d make the change. He also said that there was a necessary parameter change. I knew about that part because someone here accidentally changed that parameter and someone else here gave him the solution and the appropriate pages in the manual. But I wasn’t ready to make that change and told the guy at FB I wasn’t ready.

Now, if the keyboard design in future production runs changes, does that bode well for those of us who might need whole new keyboards in the future?
 
Hmmm. Over at one of the FB groups, A guy swapped out a Bugari EVO keyboard for a different one that looks better in that accordion. I don’t know if there was an actual problem other than aesthetics with the first one. But it got me thinking. Could a Roland FR-8x or FR-4x piano style keyboard be replaced by
i thought the Evo had some kind of modified accordion action that also
opened an air pallet/pallets and that was part of the attraction of the EVO over
the lower priced fr8

i would not have imagined they could be interchangeable, and isn't
the body of the EVO different as well ? i have never seen one, but
if the evo is built using a Bugari acoustic body...
 
Yes exactly, it was because it was an EVO as the triggering mechanism on an 8X is completely different and incompatible.
 
The Chinese are starting to manufacture acoustic accordions, so why not make electronic accordions as well. And if this will happen they will probably target the mass market because that's where low prices win over ultimate quality. And if the Chinese will enter (and dominate) the mass market with (e-)accordions Roland/Fatar will have no chance surviving in Italy. So if they will die in a few years anyway, why not move to China right now and try to suppress any upcoming competitors right from the beginning?

Die in five years forever or die now and try rebirth elsewhere before it is too late.

Would be bad news for Italian craftsmen but that is how it goes, doesn't it?
 
oh you must have gotten the wrong idea from my post

FATAR does not depend upon the small contract they have
with Roland for their long term success and profits

their business is and has been from the beginning built
upon providing complex components and assemblies
such as Keyboards to OEM manufacturers around the world..
they have done very well with this, have a stellar reputation
for quality and reliability, and have been successful at this for
as long as i can remember

something like the Renner company has been to Piano
Manufacturers with their Piano actions, just in the electronics arena.
 
Curiously, I’ve noticed the price of the 8x being increased by up to £200 at Andertons (where I bought mine) and Thomann (where I bought my stand). I suppose it could be because they are becoming harder to source but really I don’t know.
 
well that might be a clue.. if they HAD been getting
Euro sourced Roland product, and now receive them from
Asia, perhaps the import duties have increased that much,
so they are reflecting the "new" landed costs at retail
 
Just received my Roland FR-8x today via Fedex. I ordered one from Sweetwater after speaking to the sales rep about the Roland accordions. According to Roland, the Fr-1X accordions are indeed made in China. However, the 4X and 8X are still manufactured in Italy. The unit I received is tagged as made in Italy. But ,they are shipped to China for distribution worldwide. Not sure why the price drop, but the speculation on being made in China does not seem to be the reason.
 
Congratulations on your new 8x Eric. I wish you joy of it.

I’m aware that prices are higher in the US, so your comment about a price drop prompted me to look at the prices of two retailers in the UK that I contacted about buying mine. I know that in January Gear4Music was charging circa £5100 and Andertons, my choice, was just under £4900. I’ve just checked them today and their prices are approaching £5200. Perhaps the US retailers have seen this.
 
Hmmm. Over at one of the FB groups, A guy swapped out a Bugari EVO keyboard for a different one that looks better in that accordion.

That was Greg V. He just replaced the keys not the keyboard. I like the black on black marbled look. 8X cannot do that as they don’t use traditional keyboard design though technically nothing is impossible, just a crapload more work.
 
Big drop in price, wondering if I should jump in. Does it mean they are coming out with something new, discontinuing or maybe nothing?


Roland recently announced a temporary price reduction on their V-Accordion line.

FR1X was $2999.99 Now $2099.99

FR4X
was $5199.399 Now $4349.99

FR8X
Was $7999.99 Now $5999.99

Email from Kraft Music
Those prices are eyewatering, or as BellowBoy might say... "makes my reeds quiver". :ROFLMAO:
 
tagged as made in Italy. But ,they are shipped to China for distribution worldwide.
this strongly suggests the PHYSICAL assembly of the higher end models
are still contracted to FATAR, and the proprietary equipment is still located
in Italy, but now the finished assembly is done in this China distribution
center. This could mean not just the boxing and accessories, but the final
check/testing/burn in (if any) as well as loading the current OS and settings
before shipment to dealers/distribution worldwide.

This also supports the slight change upward in pricing due to source related
tariffs and shipping costs

without any insight into Roland's intention and future plan, it is impossible to
know if they are just consolidating to a lower/controlled cost ongoing model
to maintain production or if they are looking to eventually move all aspects of
manufacturing to the new location

the further removed they are from the design team and specific accordion
design/behavior knowledge, the less likely a future product will ever be seen.

the general failure of the EVO as a sustainable version also suggests less
likelihood that Roland has any sub-licensing plans in the works, such as the
short lived Swiss branded version of the old FR3. So long as the Bruti Patents
are at the core of the FR cost models, the chances for Proxima, Musictech,
and other future labs stays viable as the best chance for future product development.

on a side note, i recently looked into Proel and Dexibell again, and noted
that all connections to the original Roland design team members have been
severed, suggesting that PROEL no longer has any interest in the accordion
category, nor a module in the BK or Ketron category to support digital accordions.
Dexibell pushed more strongly into Digital Piano's, and came out with a specific
HAMMOND type keyboard/clone as well.. sales of which have been lacklustre
and the chatter on the Leslie sim underwhelming, though their Hammond type
waterfall keys are welcomed by purists as well done.
 
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