Straps Adjustment

[yaroslav9728]

Hi everyone. I would like to know more information about straps adjustment for comfortable playing with pictures and description

 

[Dingo40]

Hi Yaroslav,
This topic was done to death late last year 
The upshot is: no straps, one strap, two straps, tight straps, slack straps, whatever, as long as its comfortable for you personally. It all works just fine for somebody!

Dont sweat the small stuff!

Have a look at this guy: 

 

[debra]

There are many different preferences, but what is best to learn with two straps is to make the left strap shorter and the right strap longer so as to move the accordion so far to the left that when you play you can keep your right arm parallel to your body, meaning the elbow is far off to the right, not tucked in next to your torso.

 

[Chrisrayner]

There are many different preferences, but what is best to learn with two straps is to make the left strap shorter and the right strap longer so as to move the accordion so far to the left that when you play you can keep your right arm parallel to your body, meaning the elbow is far off to the right, not tucked in next to your torso.

Indeed.  I play a ‘normous Paolo Soprani 120 bass.  I can’t really stand up with it, so it rests on my lap.    Since I adjusted the straps so that the main body of the instrument rests on my left thigh, i.e. the treble side of the thing, I have found the bellows much easier to operate.  I also added a small webbing strap which holds the shoulder straps together behind my back.  The right one tended to slip off my shoulder and the bottom of the accordion slipped forward on my lap.  With it held upright against my body I feel less encumbered with it.  It does make looking at the keyboard more difficult, but in my opinion this is a good discipline.  I’m gradually becoming able to find the right note in the right hand without looking.

As others say, there is no right way or wrong way, but there will be a way which works best for you.

 

[maugein96]

I had to teach myself to play in the days before You Tube and the internet, from French method books that I had to translate into English. 

Seems I missed this bit out altogether, and now realise it is better to get somebody to help you :-




Some accordions are just not comfortable for certain individuals regardless of how the straps are adjusted. 

I have a 96 bass which sits too high on my ample midriff, whereas my 120 bass, although heavy, just sits about right. The 96 bass is short in the body and eminently less suitable for corpulent oldies like myself, when I have it at the best height for bellows control etc.  

If you play seated the height of your chair can make a lot of difference. Too high and you get too much strain on your shoulders and neck. Too low and your right knee can end up fouling the bottom of the treble keyboard (assuming you are not one of those people who finds playing the accordion upside down more comfortable). 

Some pro players wear right strap only, right strap across the upper arm just above the elbow, or seated with no straps. Best option for some is a Belgian harness where the accordion simply clips onto the front of it, although they tend to work best for CBA with their more compact bodies. 


You can get a lot of fun if you use straps made from with bungee material, but you need to remember to keep moving your chin out the way on the up cycle. 

As others have said, the instructions in the books are based on generalisations and are often the opinion of the author, and nobody else. 

As they say in Ulster, Every problem can be overcome, as long as you accept that some things in your favour can often be against you.

Paul de Bras suggestion is probably the most sensible advice, until you find your own way. 


Good luck.

 

[Dingo40]

John,
Hilarious clip, and excellent advice everyone!

 

[Dingo40]

Yaroslav,
You haven't told us what kind of accordion you have? :huh: 
That could make some difference.

Speaking for myself only,
all my instruments are 120/41 PAs (though some are "ladies" size and one 140/41).
In all cases, I prefer to have the right strap longer than the left ( as Paul has already suggested) in such a way that the angle of where the keyboard joins the levers and valves of the treble side , or to put it another way, the row of couplers, more or less falls, by a few inches, directly under my chin so that the join between the bellows and the treble box/cover rests on top of my left thigh, and the keyboard falls between my knees.
When playing, I keep my left arm close to my side and operate the bellows in a "V" configuration, as if the lower bellows strap were fastened.
I find this works well fo me, but each to his/her own opinion!

 

[yaroslav9728]

Yaroslav,
You haven't told us what kind of accordion you have? :huh: 
That could make some difference.

Speaking for myself only,
all my instruments are 120/41 PAs (though some are "ladies" size and one 140/41).
In all cases, I prefer to have the right strap longer than the left ( as Paul has already suggested) in such a way that the angle of where the keyboard joins the levers and valves of the treble side , or to put it another way, the row of couplers, more or less falls, by a few inches, directly under my chin so that the join between the bellows and the treble box/cover rests on top of my left thigh, and the keyboard falls between my knees.
When playing, I keep my left arm close to my side and operate the bellows in a "V" configuration, as if the lower bellows strap were fastened.
I find this works well fo me, but each to his/her own opinion!

My kind of accordion is piano 41/120.

 

[debra]

Yaroslav,
You haven't told us what kind of accordion you have? :huh: 
That could make some difference.

...

My kind of accordion is piano 41/120.

The size aspect is indeed important, as is the height of your chair. We play in different places and I always take a pillow with me to raise the height when the chairs are too low. Your left upper leg should be horizontal. When the seat is too low it's uncomfortable that your leg is pointing upwards towards the knee. Also, with the 41/120 it should be fine but with a smaller accordion you need the opposite: put something under your left foot (like a block of wood) to raise the accordion so it isn't hanging down as much. One of my accordions is a Bugari 540/ARS/C which is only 41cm compared to around 46 for the other (button) accordions. I can play  the small one comfortable with a block of wood under my left leg but it becomes uncomfortable rather quickly without that block.

 

[Dingo40]

Paul,
Good points!

 

[Dingo40]

Yaroslav 

This clip illustrates my preferred manner of holding the accordion while seated  :

 

[maugein96]

Yaroslav 

This clip illustrates my preferred manner of holding the accordion while seated  :

Yaroslav,

Most of the weight of that accordion is being taken by Lars thighs, so much so that youll sometimes see a gap between the straps and his actual shoulders. If thats the way you prefer it then the only two things you need to be careful of are the straps slipping down off the shoulder if you start to become animated whilst playing, and watch the bottom of the treble keyboard with the right thigh, as it doesnt take much for the accordion to slide down and your leg to hit a button or key accidentally, just at the wrong moment. 

Some players prefer to balance the accordion on the left knee with the keyboard directly below their chin for that reason. I probably have different positions for each of my four accordions, but have never really paid much attention to what I look like when playing, as I no longer play before audiences. 

Here is Davide Anzaghi, an Italian legend. Watch how he sits. Shoulder straps in those days typically had no padding, so it was desirable to use at least one thigh for support. 



A lot of French players (even if they have Spanish names) play standing, and the instrument ends up across their chest from right to left in a gunslinger style, as here:-



If you read a book by Lars Ek he would no doubt give different advice than Anzaghi would, as their methods of wearing the accordion are different. Thats the problem. Whose method is correct, and whose isnt? Once you decide how youre going to do it, your method will be as good as anybody elses, consistent with your own preferences, and with regard to the instrument you are playing.

 

[Dingo40]

John,
Well said!
Thanks for the clips!

 

[debra]

...

The videos of people sitting down show the accordion too far to the right (from the player's point of view), and as a result the arm is "tucked in", the (right) wrist at an angle, which isn't ideal.
When the accordion is further to the left the arm can be in a better position, elbow more forward, wrist straight.
The video of playing standing up has the accordion too low, giving very poor bellows control. Richard Galliano for instance always wore the accordion higher, giving better control. (He now plays sitting down more of the time, as he is getting older.)

 

[maugein96]

...

The videos of people sitting down show the accordion too far to the right (from the players point of view), and as a result the arm is tucked in, the (right) wrist at an angle, which isnt ideal.
When the accordion is further to the left the arm can be in a better position, elbow more forward, wrist straight.
The video of playing standing up has the accordion too low, giving very poor bellows control. Richard Galliano for instance always wore the accordion higher, giving better control. (He now plays sitting down more of the time, as he is getting older.)

Hi Paul,

I picked the clip of Stephanie Rodriguez to illustrate that just about anything goes. I couldnt manage to play with the accordion in that position as I have shortish arms. Michel Pruvots playing position is frankly ridiculous, although that general trend is/was popular in the north of France, where hes from. 




I suppose most CBA accordions used for French musette tend not to be full size, and players can take liberties. I think looking cool matters more than the technical aspect in that genre, and Pruvot is first and foremost a showman.  

Most of the method books Ive seen call for the treble keyboard to be under the players chin with the bass side supported on the left knee. That would tend to conform with your own ideal, but it seems to be the case that, given freedom of choice, we all end up doing things slightly differently. 


A lot of members will be aware of it already, but classical guitarists are required to place their left thumbs in the middle of the rear of the fretboard so that they can manage all the stretches etc. However, when you watch people playing electric guitar, they often use their thumbs on the bottom E string. A classical teacher would have a fit, but it all depends on the type of music (and instrument) being played. 


I should maybe have asked Yaroslav what genre of music he intended to play, before citing examples of bad practice.

 

[Dingo40]

John,
Good clip of Michel Pruvot!

Despite his unconventional pose, it clearly doesn't impact on his playing (like Tostão Mineira).

Secondly, as his playing is secondary to his singing, the accordion is as far as can be from his face, so it doesn't get in the way of his ( very warm) contact with his audience, a good thing I think!

 

[maugein96]

John,
Good clip of Michel Pruvot!

Despite his unconventional pose, it clearly doesnt impact on his playing (like Tostão Mineira).

Secondly, as his playing is secondary to his singing, the accordion is as far as can be from his face, so it doesnt get in the way of his ( very warm) contact with his audience, a good thing I think!

Dingo,

I never even realised he sang in that clip. I had the sound off! 

He and many other French accordionists went downsize to the smallest LMM 96 bass accordions they could find. I was never a fan of his personality and fancy gear, but given the chance he could play as good as the rest of them. 

If we could stretch it a bit (not the straps), players like Tostao and Pruvot are essentially playing light hearted folky kind of music, where none of the etiquette of how the thing is strapped on is of any real consequence. These guys are entertainers, and rely as much on their novelty aspect as they do on their ability to play. 

This guy, Jean Segurel, was a legend, not only in his native Correze, but elsewhere in France where his music was appreciated. 

Im not expecting you to like the music, as Im not exactly a fan either (especially of the singing bit). Look at his right shoulder strap, across his forearm. Dont know why he did that but others copied him, most notably the Parisian legend, Jo Privat.

Segurel still has a current production Maugein accordion named after him. What he did was take out the lower tuned reeds of three voice musette and replaced them with bassoon reeds. With the box on Master it gave it that sort of hybrid sound between Spanish and French that suited a lot of the music from his home area, where pasos formed a decent part of the repertoire. My own Maugein box has that Spanish bite to it, although my high flute reeds at 8 cents are only about a third as sharp as Segurels. 

The highbrow French players were jealous of his success, as he only tended to record simple folk tunes, often drowned out by cabrettes, and I once read a comment on a French forum which said What did Segurel do for the accordion, except introduce bassoon reeds into crap Auvergnat music?

That critic failed to observe one other thing he did, and that was create a fad for the right strap being off the shoulder. Yet another case of folk type music failing to adhere to the textbooks. 

Im full of useless trivia, but in my early days I managed to work out a lot of CBA techniques by listening to Segurels recordings. Never saw him play until You Tube, but the illustrations on his record sleeves showed that trademark right strap.

EDIT:- Missing You Tube link:-

 

[Dingo40]

John,
Thanks for sharing your observations!
All good!

 

[losthobos]

Great clips... And I'm forever trying to achieve the correct position... But it keeps eluding me
Suggestion is to get keyboard vertically under the nose or on left knee but i find this nesr imposdible on CBA and right hand always too far right... Any suggestions please Paul as you often talk about the right arm horizantal elbow out wrist straight position...
Or is the wrist position different for CBA rather than piano board.... Many thanks

 

[maugein96]

Great clips... And Im forever trying to achieve the correct position... But it keeps eluding me
Suggestion is to get keyboard vertically under the nose or on left knee but i find this nesr imposdible on CBA and right hand always too far right... Any suggestions please Paul as you often talk about the right arm horizantal elbow out wrist straight position...
Or is the wrist position different for CBA rather than piano board.... Many thanks

Terry,

If you scroll to about 29.30 in this rather long documentary I posted some years ago, it will all be explained, if you can understand Italian! If you keep watching youll see an old guy, Primo Panzacchi, playing a waltz. Watch his right hand fingers, which give him a comfortable playing attack at all times with no tangles due to his thumb being in the way, and no awkward wrist positions either. He does use his thumb occasionally and doesnt tend to rest it (for long) on the side of the treble keyboard. The ideal is 90 degrees to the treble keyboard. Primos fingers look to be between 80 and 90 degrees most of the time. He is sitting with the box on his left knee angled backwards, so that he can look down at the treble keyboard, which is his choice. Everything else he does is by the book according to Italian teaching methods, and they apply to both CBA and PA. 

No fancy fast arpeggios and other showing off. Just very accurate playing of relatively straightforward folk type music.