Scandalli Cantore 179 (with the custom-built logo) any advice is highly appreciated.

[Jolyx]

Hello to all!

I found so much info on this forum until now and i greatly appreciate you all. So i guess someone out here could help me with specific advice.
I own a vintage Scandalli Symphony three, about which i found out here that it was made beginning in '38 up until the '40s. I got this one from a friend for a bargain price, he knew i didn't have an accordion and i wanted so badly one. As a child, i first began learning on piano, then, in our local church i learned to play on the church accordion but i never could back then afford one. Then i got into guitar. Things in life changed and i left things how they were because of much work. I played now and then on the accordions of my friend and this last Christmas, i suddenly found myself with the old Scandalli. This is in astonishable good playable condition, much of which i wondered, keeping in mind its age. Except for the well-known "basses falling out" problem on it, which i solved with some thermocontractible tubing it's ok. Now i want to get deeper into it, to clean reeds and rewax it and change some leathers, problems which i found it to have. I can hear the need of a slight retune for some keys, as well as tremolo loss or musette loss in others, but i will get to filing only if anything else i try first won't work. As far as i could hear/see for now, it looks like it's MMH and the only register it has, switches the musette off leaving it MH. I have a friend with some experience who can help, and i am knowledgeable in fine mechanics, and, since before any phone app existed, i tuned my piano myself starting only from the tuning fork, which is just the central A for reference, from there working my way up and down, and i've been trying clean or musette tunes on piano also. (from central C above, it has 3 strings per key, which gives the option for tuning -, standard, and +).

But, as this takes time, i wondered if i should buy another accordion to have on what to play and i stumbled upon a Scandalli Cantore 179 on our marketplace. It is priced at 1000 Euros and it is the one (the only one i found so far) with the custom-built logo. There are some others on the market, but all got "Scandalli Italia" on the logo and they are much more expensive by the way. I wonder if it's somehow different, what i could see comparing all the pictures, the custom-built one has the musette switch, while most Scandallis won't let you do musette. It has LMMH setup. This accordion comes from a church, which had a band and has on sale more Scandallis, all are the polifonico model and just this one cantore model. I saw videos with it and it sounds good. Real good. Also, it looked like it is able to easily tackle the transition from pianissimo to fortissimo and back very well. Another particularity on it seems to be on its bellows. 2 interior ply-s on one end, 2 on the other end and one in the middle are red. The rest are black. This can only be seen while the instrument is played. Would this instrument be worth a shot? Or am i just super-hyped about this? To be able to see it, i have to make a 500 km journey (310 miles) forth and back and that involves some good amount of diesel with the risk of returning empty-handed. There is another option, to still buy a polifonico if the Cantore isn't what i expect it to be, for the same price, but it is just LMH. There is a polifonico with LMMH but the guy asks for a bigger price on it so it isn't an option as i'm very tight on the budget. These are the times sadly...

Regarding other choices, personally, i like the Scandalli, it just fits perfectly with the type of songs i play. Including the Italian musette on just 2 voices. I am not really into an LMMMH setting as this would make the instrument heavier and as i said, i like it to have just a slight musette touch to it. So i don't want to own anything else, just Scandalli, though, anytime when i get the chance i really enjoy to try out any brand or variety of instrument.

Sorry for being so long with the post, any info or advice regarding either the old or the newer accordion would be greatly appreciation, as i like to dive as deep as possible into the history of the instrument i own.

Thank you!

 

[Ventura]

i do not know what old posts you are referring to, but your conclusions
are perhaps in error

both photo's show post WW2 scandalli builds as far as i can tell,
and the drop-out bass machine/"basses falling out" did not exist pre-ww2

the older one with waterfall keys is probably lucky to still be alive !
you did well keeping it working, but yes further repair may need a lot of effort/time

it is completely common, all these newer models have Musette shifts
in the LMMH configuration. The ones with LMH, which were the
most common model built, have 7 shifts on the grill and no musette,
and they also built many 2 reed treble models in this series
I have never seen one of these models in LMMMH at all.
These were nice accordions, very popular, with the modern
Scandalli individual key action, some of them had better reeds,
even Stainless Steel on special order, but that was very rare.

of course, these models ended production when Scandalli/Farfisa went out
of business late in the 20th century and their factories closed, and were abandoned.
Action parts are no longer available.

if it is a nice one where the action is not worn out, at 1000 euro,
definitely buy it. It is lighter in weight than their Super Vl type traditional
built models because more aluminum is used in the framing/keybed

if you are expecting a Super Vl tone chambered type sound and action
you will be dissapointed, the construction in this line was quite
different and designed as a more affordable, and more assembly
line, type of construction. Yes they are robust in power, fortissimo..

the bellows red sections may have just been an artistic point on that model

it is known that some of these models were permitted and imported
into the former USSR block nations before the Wall fell, but it can
be very difficult to find Provenance on them.

good luck

 

[Jolyx]

Thank you so much for the great information!

I searched again and found the forum where i read the info about the older accordion:
https://forum.melodeon.net/index.php?topic=22077.0
There was also a picture from accordion times, an advertisement supposedly from October 1937, the accordion itself would have been released in 1938. If the info there is wrong, i was wrong also, if that's the case i'm sorry for that because i don't want to mislead anyone around. The fact is, i searched a lot, but could not find any more detailed info on the old model, that's why i asked around here about it. I guess it's some sort of defect of mine to search all the info i can get especially about vintage stuff i stumble across .

"the older one with waterfall keys is probably lucky to still be alive !" - honestly, i was kind of thinking the same about it. That's the root cause of my desire to restore it as best i can especially because it doesn't seem to have big defects. All piccolo reeds work. I just hear either some valves flapping around while playing or the specific sound because of degraded wax and little issues with musette and tremolo here and there and some slight de-tuning, but it might also be just dust/dirt/rust related.
This is also a reason to purchase the newer instrument - i don't want to play the life out of the old one just to practice. And, i know it will take time and patience to fully revise the instrument, and actually, i wished so much to have an accordion that now i can't imagine not having what to play on any more while doing repairs.

You are right, Scandalli never built those models LMMMH, i was referring to models who had it, and i was saying that i don't especially wish for an LMMMH accordion, i am fully satisfied with the sound the LMMH type can give, and i also thought about the trade-off, having an extra M that comes with a little extra weight on the instrument.

"Action parts are no longer available." thank you for this info! Besides all other issues that need to be usually tested before buying, i shall then be extra careful to inspect the actual wear of the mechanisms when i go to see the instrument.

I am well aware that it won't come close to the Super VI tone, but it is still a Scandalli and i am satisfied with that. It's good to know that it is robust for fortissimo, as i like to be somewhat expressive in playing. Honestly, i refrain from squeezing all the decibels out of the old one, because of preservation purposes.

"the bellows red sections may have just been an artistic point on that model" - interesting!

"it is known that some of these models were permitted and imported
into the former USSR block nations before the Wall fell, but it can
be very difficult to find Provenance on them." - my guess is that it was imported much more recently, after communism certainly, because beforehand Baptist and Pentecostal churches were kind of banned around here, and the instrument currently belongs to such a church. This could have it's ups and downs i guess... it either was squeezed by many people who didn't care about it, but i guess it was not the case given the fact that the pics and videos i received with it show it to be in good optical and musical condition. The upside is, if it wasn't played that often (certainly not daily) then it should actually not have that much wear on it.

"if it is a nice one where the action is not worn out, at 1000 euro,
definitely buy it" - i was also considering it to be worth the far drive, and actually i wish to have this accordion very much, your opinion encourages me, so i'll go see it.

"good luck" - Thanks! i'll keep you updated about what i found

 

[Ventura]

thats a very interesting ad in that old accordion times magazine..

well we know black body accordions were only JUST beginning to
be seen before WW2 in response directly to Excelsior scoring a
knockout in the professional market with the black Rocker shift models.

Everyone tried to catch up, of course, with the more nimble companies
like Gallanti, with their New York store and Mondaino factory and fiercely
competitive and creative family coming quickly to market with alternatives..
but most companies at first merely made the same old art-case accordions
in black.. notice in that advert the squared bass body section and lines
from the old style models VS the more modern sculpted shape of the
one you own. That advert may have been quite a bit ahead of the actual
product becoming available, and of course the war quickly stopped
the market from continued innovation.. Sort of like the Popular Mechanics
magazines would have adverts and articles based on artistic drawings
and talking points rather than photo's or hands on reporting for many "new" products.

yes, many of us like the versatility and tone and power of these more modern
and everyday Scandalli's.. they certainly had a huge impact on the market
and gave a better accordion to many people on a limited budget than
most of their competition could ever do

that one you are interested in could still have many decades of life left in it

so it is the actual fulcrum point in the aluminum that can be worn "loose",
each treble key being individually mounted in this system. It takes a huge
amount of key presses to wear one out, but some have been played
that much so you do need to be aware. you already know how to fix the bass
if any pistons extend.. no big problem.. there are more man made materials
in the newer model so sometimes a fair amount of time and patience is
needed if materials have oxidied and become brittle.

have a fun and safe journey there and back again to Transylvania !

 

[Jolyx]

Thank you so much for the great historical information! I noticed the image in the advertising being not 100% accurate, and yes, in those times weren't cameras everywhere around like nowadays, when i saw the post didn't think about the advertisement being actually hand-drawn. I find it interesting that even back then, when something new popped out, everyone wanted to jump aboard and modernize things. As the original thread posts, the advert in the magazine should be indeed before the actual accordion got to hit the market.
I guess back then it took a lot of time to build an accordion from scratch.

Regarding the Scandalli brand, i guess it just got stuck to my heart to never be unstuck again. A long time ago, when people around here had only lower quality and more/less worn-out accordions, someone was invited to sing in our church and he had a Scandalli. The guy was also good in playing the accordion. Like, really good. I remember when people just played instruments and most did not have that much musical culture back then, being often offbeat, thing that just nagged me deeply. I began the musical journey by taking piano lessons and also learned musical theory along the process. Afterwards i also got into accordion and guitar, theory being practically the same, it was just a matter of time before I got accustomed to the other instruments and learned to play them. So, this guy came and i guess his style influenced my accordion-playing style and instrument preference for life. And that style of songs fits in my opinion best on the Scandalli tone. This is in short my story and the reason i fell in love with these instruments. Scandalli is even nowadays pretty hard to find around here so i ended up a long time having no instrument until i just decided it was time to act.

"that one you are interested in could still have many decades of life left in it

so it is the actual fulcrum point in the aluminum that can be worn "loose",
each treble key being individually mounted in this system. It takes a huge
amount of key presses to wear one out, but some have been played
that much so you do need to be aware. you already know how to fix the bass
if any pistons extend.. no big problem.. there are more man made materials
in the newer model so sometimes a fair amount of time and patience is
needed if materials have oxidied and become brittle."

I hope so either, that i'll find it to be good and still playable for a long time.
I'll be extra careful to inspect the alignment of the keys and if they have a big lateral play. I am a patient person, so i have the nerve so to say, to stay for a long time upon fixing sensible things. I also like to study a lot about something before tackling it. It's good to know that even the newer model has many fixable parts to it, just in case.

"have a fun and safe journey there and back again to Transylvania !"

Thanks so much! Tomorrow i'll take the journey and i'll hope i won't return empty-handed.
I wonder to what extent should i accept minor issues and still buy the instrument at its price. I mean, if the key and bass mechanism is still good, but if i find minor tuning or leather-related issues, taking into account that i could tackle that kind of fixes myself. A friend built a tuning table and he is willing to help me to lend it to me, and i saw many videos about what tuning and waxing involve and i find it not to be very difficult, it is only more a matter of big patience i guess. I also already have a bunch of precision tools including small diamond files for precision rotary tool.

 

[Ventura]

well you can use the rotary tool with the diamond bits..
just don't turn the motor on !

i too had Scandalli impressed upon me as a youth, and when i first
went to Italy, finding "Scandalli" and finding a 140 Bass MIDI accordion
were the two holy grails i searched for

it was one of the saddest moments in my life to find and see the derelict
FarFisa factory.. once Scandalli's shining jewel.. the epitome of Modern
Accordion and electronic manufacturing in Italy.. all the wonderful unique machines
discarded, rusting, nothing left but ghosts, and then to search Camerano and
Ancona for the relics but there too only empty shells, though the Rotunda
overlooking the Adriatic still exists, that was featured on so many 1930's models

Bontiempi had already begun imitation production using the Scandalli
brand name and look-alike cosmetics.. the badge was passed around for
a long time until the current owners, who seem to be making an attempt at
a reasonably honorable use of the old name and respecting the legacy...

any 50 year old accordion is going to need some work, and your thought is
correct.. willingness to tackle the tedious but not-too-specialized work
will result in a keeper and a daily use workhorse you can be proud to play

i hope your trek east for the accordion doesn't get you too close to
the War in your neighbors country.. there have been incidents of
overshot and shot down Iranian drones near and even on your coast..

 

[Jolyx]

Wow! thank you for the brief history! i thought the Scandalli factory was still the same after Farfisa but it seems the odds are against it. Indeed Mirco Patarini, the current owner, seems a very passionate accordion player and maybe good times for Scandalli will arise again.

Indeed, rotary tool will be used just as a file handle, no motor movement involved of course. I can lock it to not rotate at all. But i like the file bits as they are pretty long and there are also sharp ones, i bet they can reach on the inside of the reed block if needed.

No, it won't be too close to the war. My location is somewhere on the lower - towards west side of Transylvania. And i have to reach north, indeed toward Ukraine, but the destination is still a good 100 km or more off from the border. Yes, those drone incidents happened quite a lot last autumn, but fortunately the east side to the sea where most of the danger looms is relatively far from me. Just heard on today's news that some rockets flew today over Romanian territory, like well inside our country, of course just passing by towards Ukraine and the military guys seem to try and not give clear answers, i'm not quite shure what actually happened or not. I hope that nothing bad will happen for now.

I'll write again tomorrow as i have to catch some sleep before the long drive.

 

[Jolyx]

Hello to all! Sorry i am a couple of days late with my post, short story long, ended up with this vintage polifonico and although it wasn't the one i hoped for, the first time i played it a bit more in-depth at home i started to really love it.

I want to mention that i'll call it "polifonico" although almost everyone around calls these models "brevetto". But actually, in italian, brevetto means "patent" as meant for example in "patent pending" because those sound caps were patented by them. I searched what i could find about it, and in that vintage catalog, it appears to be "polifonico" and also in all italian videos on youtube they were called polifonico.

I also found out on this forum, quote:
"They have a per sample production number and then I (finally) got a quick intro to that from a U.S. accordion retailer. I quote the text:
L from approximately 1955-1958, M from 1959-1962,
N from 1963-1968."
So, mine is an M, it should be '59-'62, although first i thought it was much newer, like 70's or so.

I drove the far journey and arrived at the seller's home. I tested first the cantore. Keys were in tune compared to one another, a couple of piccolos weren't working, but i said that's it, it's just it's age. Basses also were in tune, but on the usually used ones (C, G, etc) the low bass reeds weren't reacting. Then i started to play a song which i forehand prepared where there are also some 7'ths, diminished, and "ask-response" style for left and right hand, to feel how the instrument sounds. There arose the problem. The basses were all out of tune in relation to the keys. One button was sticking out farther... and... it had something off about it's compression. Either the voicing was not well adjusted, i don't know, because it didn't escape air if nothing was pressed, but it's reaction was weaker than expected in playing. Ok... let's then test another... the guy had a polifonico with more registers (11+2 repeating + master palm switch), that one was for 1500 Euro, but i still tested it. Even more piccolo's had problems, the leather valves were kind of making noises, and same - weak low sound response and basses out of tune compared to the keys. I guess someone tuned them wrong.. weak repairs... i don't know. I really got disappointed. And i forgot to mention - the musette sound was ok-ish, but tremolo was lost on most keys. He had also a Bugarri Armando... for 3000 Euro, i tested it as i was there just to see... but it had some issues also... some keys were out of tune, and most piccolos from half of the keyboard up were not working... else it had some out of tune keys and bass nots. also, the register couplers were not working properly, even if i didn't touch the palm master switch, it slowly depressed itself while playing, no matter what else was selected. There was another "e soprani" as i recall, 96 basses, but i got to the point where i didn't want to test that one anymore, i wasn't even curious. I explained all these things to the seller while testing. I told him about my old scandalli and honestly that one as is, is way better than anything he had there. I was prepared to return empty handed, when he told me he had one more, at the church. I thought, now, i came this far, let's test this one also.

And with this one... it was a completely different story. except for the piccolo on the last key, only when pushing it, every key in any register worked perfectly, basses also, left-right sides were in perfect tune with another, and it astonished me with its rich in-depth bass sound, i could actually feel the vibrations of it in my left hand (what accordions i've played so far, didn't have that deep and powerful sound) and it's bellow response also is nice. Also, the key and bass mechanisms on this one were in astonishing shape and also the pins that hold it together had no marks left from pliers. Last and not least.... the tremollo it has... it just made me fall in love with it instantly so i went for it and bought it.

The seller told me afterward... he knew about what custom-built should be, and that the grille was from something else... and i shouldn't expect a custom-built instrument at that price.... and i forgot to mention, the one i saw in the video had black bellows, the one i told about had white bellow plys. He told me that as it was a similar instrument he referred to that in the video.... i guess accordions are the same as used cars... you have to go see and test a lot of them but only few are still as advertised and in their right minds.

So, as i returned i was somewhat disappointed that i didn't get what i expected, on the other side i liked this instrument so much and was wondering if i made the right choice. And for some reason, i didn't like those sound caps... although they make a huge adjustment to the sound. But when returning home and playing it more, it just got stuck to me. It makes me want to play something any time i have a bit of a break. I also particularly like its L-H and L-M-H registers, when singing a slow song and just keeping long chords depressed at a time, it resembles to me the sound of the old pipe organs. Playing around with those sound caps, i started to really appreciate and understand better what they actually do.

 

[Ventura]

congratulations

it sounds like you were careful, well prepared, and kept control
of the process at your own pace

and you were successful at finding a good one at a reasonable price
in Romania, within driving distance.

that the LM and LMH sound clean and tight to your ears, and
invite strong long notes and chords tells me it is in tune with itself
and is holding that tuning well

i hope you enjoy many years with it, and it continues to inspire and invite
you to pick it up and play

now.. get to work on the old one ! the sooner you begin the sooner
it will be able to compete with the new one for your attention !

 

[Jolyx]

congratulations

it sounds like you were careful, well prepared, and kept control
of the process at your own pace

and you were successful at finding a good one at a reasonable price
in Romania, within driving distance.

that the LM and LMH sound clean and tight to your ears, and
invite strong long notes and chords tells me it is in tune with itself
and is holding that tuning well

i hope you enjoy many years with it, and it continues to inspire and invite
you to pick it up and play

now.. get to work on the old one ! the sooner you begin the sooner
it will be able to compete with the new one for your attention !

Thank you!

Yes, i tried to be as careful as i could be, as you said, at my own pace i patiently tested and looked at all the instruments available. I really took my time to try them. i am also really happy that i managed to find a good instrument on the first try.

Yes, indeed, playing this instrument, as the saying goes "hearing it is music to my ears" Literally it makes me happy. I find the keys travel interesting, i can feel very quick progress in practice with the newer one compared to the old one. The older one has short key travel and seems built for a trained hand, to help the player find and press exactly what he should, but instead, i found progress to be harder on that one.

Thank you! I also hope that it'll last me for a long time, as i said, i really began to love this other accordion also.

Yep! i can barely wait to bring the old one to it's former state. I record myself playing and watching again to have a viewer's perspective and to be able to spot mistakes i still make. Sometimes i listen to the same song i've played on each one of them, and i can tell, the old one has something specific to its sound, from those past times, something that just those old accordions had - i can't describe exactly what, but because of this i can say i love it the same. As i said before, i can barely wait to hear it when it's properly in tune again.

Thanks for all the advice and encouragement!