Roland V Accordians User sets/Programs/Sounds

[Andy]

Hi all you FR 1-8x experts.
Having purchased a secondhand Roland FR-1x , watched dozens of youtube videos and read the manual I am stil confused by the terminology of Sets, Programs & Sounds. My Tyros & other previous keyboards were simple to understand so why is the Roland so confusing?
I have a lot of computer knowledge re file systems but this one beats them all!
Can anyone provide some sort of flow chart which shows where each area of program/file/sound is stored?

Is it possible to download the entire file structure to a laptop to visulise how everything is organised?

I have downloaded and run the Roland set editor as shown below,


but when I run the program, I get the following message:-



Getting very frustrated now!

 

[John M]

I had a similar problems a few months back. Here’s what I did:

1. Be sure you have JAVA installed on your computer

2. Go to the Roland site and download the PC Editor, The only browser I could get to work was Microsoft Edge.

3. The file you need is: FR-** Editor—Executable Jar file.

4. I put the Jar file in a directory on my hard drive C:/Roland

5. If I didn’t put the file in a folder on the hard drive, I would get the “Import Error” you got

6. I don’t know much about this software stuff, but I think the Executable file Jar has to be on the same drive where JAVA is installed.

Also, I have a post where I have all the tone selections for the FR-8X which I retrieved from the PC Editor. Some of the tones may be the same. If not, you can get them from the PC Editor for the FR-1X. This is the link to my organized tones:

https://www.accordionists.info/thre...pine-accorchestra-and-balkan-expansions.7606/

John M.

 

[Andy]

I had a similar problems a few months back. Here’s what I did:

1. Be sure you have JAVA installed on your computer

2. Go to the Roland site and download the PC Editor, The only browser I could get to work was Microsoft Edge.

3. The file you need is: FR-** Editor—Executable Jar file.

4. I put the Jar file in a directory on my hard drive C:/Roland

5. If I didn’t put the file in a folder on the hard drive, I would get the “Import Error” you got

6. I don’t know much about this software stuff, but I think the Executable file Jar has to be on the same drive where JAVA is installed.

Also, I have a post where I have all the tone selections for the FR-8X which I retrieved from the PC Editor. Some of the tones may be the same. If not, you can get them from the PC Editor for the FR-1X. This is the link to my organized tones:

https://www.accordionists.info/thre...pine-accorchestra-and-balkan-expansions.7606/

John M.

Hi John, I had everything right except I hadn't connected the accordian to the computer! I presumed you could run the editor and make user sets and save them to a USB for inserting into the accordian later.

Now that the editor is working, i assumed you could read all the current settings from the accordian, to identify the sounds etc, edit them and then save new ones back to the accordian? Is this not possible?

How can I find out if the contents of the accordian are set to the original sounds or whether the previous owner has changed them to something else?

Still confused!
Going back to indoor helicopter flying as that is much easier!!
Andy

 

[John M]

Yes, you can read your Sets and User Programs with the editor. I don't know how you can tell if you have the original sounds. On the 8X there is a "Factory All Reset" to return to the original factory settings. I assume the FR-1X has a similar function. I purchased Richard Noel's User Program Banks. If I want to make a small change to his program, I do it with the editor and then save the User Program. I haven't worked much with sets. I do know that, with the PC Editor, there is a separate option to Write (save) Set and also to Write (save) User program.

I don't believe the software is the same on all models, so my experience with the 8X may not apply to the 1X.

John M.

 

[dan]

Is it possible to download the entire file structure to a laptop to visulise how everything is organised?

I am also new to this, and yes, it's very cumbersome, but the structure makes a bit more sense to me after loading the Orchestra expansion on my FR-1xb, using a flash drive and following the PDF instructions included in the download.

First I had to install the expansion pack. It was a single, 8MB file with a ".bi" extension, and probably contains the audio samples used to generate the sounds. There are three expansions but only two storage slots, so you have to pick.

To access any of those sounds, I needed to install Sets. They are 12 KB files with a ".STI" extension. Sets can be created with the editor, but six were included in the Expansion pack download. There are four available slots. I overwrote the first slot until I decided which four I liked best.

Sets are a way of assigning sounds to up to 16 register slots, for each of the various modes. For example, on the factory installed "F (French) Folk" set, two taps of the third register switch (3b) gets me a wet-tuned musette sound on accordion mode, or tenor sax sound on orchestra mode. On the 314.STI set I loaded into one of the four User Sets, two taps of the third register switch gets me a dry-tuned musette sound on accordion mode, or a metallophone sound ("Pemade") on orchestra mode.

User programs are a shortcut. Once I've found a combination of sounds I like (i.e. a swing-tuned bassoon reed on treble, turn down reverb, paired with organ for the chord buttons and acoustic bass) I can save it to U1A or one of the other 8 user program slots, so I can retrieve it with fewer button presses.

Hope that helps

 

[Andy]

Yes, you can read your Sets and User Programs with the editor. I don't know how you can tell if you have the original sounds. On the 8X there is a "Factory All Reset" to return to the original factory settings. I assume the FR-1X has a similar function. I purchased Richard Noel's User Program Banks. If I want to make a small change to his program, I do it with the editor and then save the User Program. I haven't worked much with sets. I do know that, with the PC Editor, there is a separate option to Write (save) Set and also to Write (save) User program.

I don't believe the software is the same on all models, so my experience with the 8X may not apply to the 1X.

John M.

Hi John,
thanks for your help.
How do you read the sets and user programs from the accordian? (Once i know what is in the accordian I can do a factory reset and compare the results)
Do they just appear in the editor as soon as you plug in the accordian when running the editor program?
Also, where can you purchase the Richard Noel's Program Banks?

Andy

 

[Andy]

I am also new to this, and yes, it's very cumbersome, but the structure makes a bit more sense to me after loading the Orchestra expansion on my FR-1xb, using a flash drive and following the PDF instructions included in the download.

First I had to install the expansion pack. It was a single, 8MB file with a ".bi" extension, and probably contains the audio samples used to generate the sounds. There are three expansions but only two storage slots, so you have to pick.

To access any of those sounds, I needed to install Sets. They are 12 KB files with a ".STI" extension. Sets can be created with the editor, but six were included in the Expansion pack download. There are four available slots. I overwrote the first slot until I decided which four I liked best.

Sets are a way of assigning sounds to up to 16 register slots, for each of the various modes. For example, on the factory installed "F (French) Folk" set, two taps of the third register switch (3b) gets me a wet-tuned musette sound on accordion mode, or tenor sax sound on orchestra mode. On the 314.STI set I loaded into one of the four User Sets, two taps of the third register switch gets me a dry-tuned musette sound on accordion mode, or a metallophone sound ("Pemade") on orchestra mode.

User programs are a shortcut. Once I've found a combination of sounds I like (i.e. a swing-tuned bassoon reed on treble, turn down reverb, paired with organ for the chord buttons and acoustic bass) I can save it to U1A or one of the other 8 user program slots, so I can retrieve it with fewer button presses.

Hope that helps

Hi Dan,
Thanks for all your comprehensive explanations, i'm slowly starting to understand how things work. It's a pity one can't use the editor in real time and experiment whithout having to save to USB then load sounds, sets/user programs.

You would have thought Roland could have spend a hundred or more pounds and provided a LCD screen with editor and a few knobs to adjust the parameters!

Andy

 

[John M]

You should be able to use the editor in real time once the sets and user programs are installed. Then the editor will read them automatically. For example, when I installed the user programs on my 8X, I did it from a flash drive. After that, once the accordion is linked to your PC, the editor will read the memory directly. For instance, if I select register switch #2, the editor immediately updates. If I then select switch #3, the editor updates, etc. The only time I use the USB again is if I want to save a set or program as a back up for the sets or user programs. Basically, I can save the information to memory or to a flash drive. After you make a change, be sure to save it somewhere, since if you just turn the accordion OFF, it will be right back where you started when you turned it on the last time.

I highly recommend the Richard Noel sets. The link to get the Richard Noel program sets is:

Information for Roland Digital Accordionists

Sets, User Programs, Instruction for the Roland v-Accordions by Richard Noel

www.noelaccordion.com

John M.

 

[Andy]

You should be able to use the editor in real time once the sets and user programs are installed. Then the editor will read them automatically. For example, when I installed the user programs on my 8X, I did it from a flash drive. After that, once the accordion is linked to your PC, the editor will read the memory directly. For instance, if I select register switch #2, the editor immediately updates. If I then select switch #3, the editor updates, etc. The only time I use the USB again is if I want to save a set or program as a back up for the sets or user programs. Basically, I can save the information to memory or to a flash drive. After you make a change, be sure to save it somewhere, since if you just turn the accordion OFF, it will be right back where you started when you turned it on the last time.

I highly recommend the Richard Noel sets. The link to get the Richard Noel program sets is:

Information for Roland Digital Accordionists

Sets, User Programs, Instruction for the Roland v-Accordions by Richard Noel

www.noelaccordion.com

John M.

Hi John,
I don't think my FR-1x will let me view the internal sets like you can on your 8x. I have tried connecting the FR-1x to the computer and running the editor but nothing changes on the editor when I press any of the registers on the instrument.
I don't understsand why I am not able to save or view the current user sets in the accordion. I want to see whether the sets are ones created by the previous owner or the original ones supplied by Roland.
It would also be nice to be able to see the contents of the installed sounds to see whether any additional ones have been installed, before trying to install any more!
PS, the Richard Noel sets are a bit too expensive for me.

Andy

 

[Valski]

Hi John,
I don't think my FR-1x will let me view the internal sets like you can on your 8x. I have tried connecting the FR-1x to the computer and running the editor but nothing changes on the editor when I press any of the registers on the instrument.
I don't understsand why I am not able to save or view the current user sets in the accordion. I want to see whether the sets are ones created by the previous owner or the original ones supplied by Roland.
It would also be nice to be able to see the contents of the installed sounds to see whether any additional ones have been installed, before trying to install any more!
PS, the Richard Noel sets are a bit too expensive for me.

Andy

Hi Andy,

Don't own an Frx1 so can't say for sure if this could pose a challenge however it's best to update your accordion software as well as the set editor software so that they work with each other. I seem to recall having to do that a while back.

You might want to check on the Roland website for the latest version for both. Since you're not the original owner you may find that this has never been done.

 

[oldbayan]

If I were you I would keep everything simple and leave the set editor out! On the FR-1x it's only really useful to edit existing sets. A "set" is like a model of accordion with a given sound color. See page 24 of the manual. Then you can select the reeds (voices) with the register switches. The 2a setting is the Master. So you have 16 accordion styles (or sets), and they can be used with 14 registers each! For the music I do I like the 33 "D" Folk set with the 3b register. So I saved this to User Program 1 for fast access. The User Program button allows you to save and recall your preferences (section 11 in the manual). That's all there is to know to get playing.

 

[dan]

Richard Noel has a helpful video that explains Sets and User Programs.

 

[dan]

If I were you I would keep everything simple and leave the set editor out! On the FR-1x it's only really useful to edit existing sets.

Good advice if you’re want to play the included sets without a lot of headache. Factory reset is also good advice—my 1xb was set an octave too low on startup, either by previous owner or accidentally by me, and I also wanted the Cajun set back that I’d overwritten with the orchestra expansion sets, only half of which is were usable.

however I found that the set editor is the only way to access some of the sounds I’d like on the instrument. Low octave Acoustic Bass sounds on freebass mode. Rhodes electric piano sounds on chords. Extra customized organ sounds! Vibes and harmonica on treble. All these are possible on a 1x with the set editor, I’ve discovered!

You should be able to use the editor in real time once the sets and user programs are installed

But this seems to be a feature reserved for the higher end models so it will be tedious

 

[John M]

Good advice if you’re want to play the included sets without a lot of headache. Factory reset is also good advice—my 1xb was set an octave too low on startup, either by previous owner or accidentally by me, and I also wanted the Cajun set back that I’d overwritten with the orchestra expansion sets, only half of which is were usable.

however I found that the set editor is the only way to access some of the sounds I’d like on the instrument. Low octave Acoustic Bass sounds on freebass mode. Rhodes electric piano sounds on chords. Extra customized organ sounds! Vibes and harmonica on treble. All these are possible on a 1x with the set editor, I’ve discovered!


But this seems to be a feature reserved for the higher end models so it will be tedious

I am not familiar with which Roland models can use the PC Editor. I have worked with only my FR-8X accordion and the buttons to make some changes. For some functions it's O.K. and quick, but when you get into modifying sets/programs and moving files around there is nothing like the Editor. As I mentioned before, the Richard Noel sets are great and well worth the money. After I bought his sets I had some questions for him (he is very helpful with a quick response). He must have been creating these Sets/Programs for some time, because when I asked a question about the Editor, he told me when he started, the Editor was not available and he created all his Sets/Programs right on the accordion. All I can say is, he is creative/brilliant with an EXTREME amount of patience and perseverance.

John M.

 

[OldSqueezer]

But I believe I am right in saying, having looked at Richard Noel’s website, that what he offers for the FR-1X is considerably more limited than his wide ranging programming for its bigger brothers. And I don’t think the latter can just be carried across to “the little fellah”, even if you had not already said that the sets were a little expensive for you.

 

[dan]

On my 1xb (and also the 3x and 7x) are more orchestra sounds than available slots on the four user sets.
There are 83 sounds/patches on the orchestra expansion (including sound nice electric pianos, some fun synth sounds, and a mellower flute)
There are 16 on the alpine expansion (including some good brass and guitar sounds)
There are at least 16 "hidden" factory-installed sounds that can be accessed with the editor (including vibes and banjo)

So I've been overwriting User Sets as I test out the various sounds, and saving a few of my favorites to User Programs.

I discovered yesterday that replacing the User Sets wreaks havoc with the User Programs I'd saved. What I thought was a shortcut to the Celesta sound in the RH (handy for playing the Harry Potter theme or selections from the Nutcracker Suite) now calls up a Violin!

It seems the User Programs are shortcuts to a Set number and Register number (i.e. Register 2a on User Set 1), rather than a shortcut to the underlying sound patches stored in the instrument (i.e. Celesta).

 

[Glenn]

You are right. It would be great if a user program could simply mix and match any parameter of the accordion to break the link between sets and programs but this would mean any new program would have to be created from zero, designing the register settings (what reed combinations etc.) and adding orchestral sounds and effects. To keep things manageable, Roland based a user program on a set. If you change a set being used in a user program than that program, when called, will reflect those changes.
On my 8X I have dedicated the unused sets to my own programming efforts to limit the damage but it still happens on occasion.

 

[dan]

On my 8X I have dedicated the unused sets to my own programming efforts to limit the damage but it still happens on occasion.

How do you organize your programming efforts?

My tentative plan is to designate U4 for exploration, and U1 for performance. I'll never make a User Program that points to User Set 4, because that will get overwritten often. When I find the right sound for a tune I'm playing, I'll add it to an empty slot in my Performance Set, and use that as the basis for a User Program. I'll need to start keeping a list of both my Performance Set and my User Programs.

User program 001, Register 1a: The accordion and banjo part of My Favorite Song
User program 001, Register 2a: The bagpipe and drums part of My Favorite Song
User program 001, Register 3a: The big finale of My Favorite Song, where I combine bagpipes, banjo, and accordion bass in order to appeal to the widest possible audience

User Set 1, Chord Buttons, Register 1b: The perfect banjo sound to use in My Favorite Song
User Set 1, Treble, Register 2a: The perfect bagpipe sound for My Favorite Song

 

[John M]

I make changes to settings in “User Program” mode using the 8X PC Editor. I do not make any changes to sets. All right hand functions (Accordion, Orch 1, Orch 2, and Organ) and left hand functions (Bass & Chord, Free Bass, Orch chord/Free Bass, Orch Bass) are editable. For example, LH bass and chord volume are independently adjustable. Also in the RH, Orch1 can be changed from Clarinet to Sax, Acoustic Bass, Piano, Vibes, guitar, banjo. . .etc.
NOTE: This is only possible in “User program” mode with the PC Editor, as the Menu button to change settings is disabled in “User program” mode. Without the Editor you must Exit out of “User Program” mode. Now you are back in “set” mode and can now use the Menu button to edit changes to the settings.

The "write" command is dangerous as you can write over an existing program (that you wanted to keep) with a new program. For my use with the 8X, I wanted two user program banks (28 register switch selections) that would be available quickly. I have switch selections for my favorite settings such as Piano, Vibes, Sax, Clarinet, Mandolin, Guitar, Banjo, and several Accordion and Hammond B3 settings.
When the user program mode is selected, the default bank is #1. I wanted my 28 selections to be in these first two banks. Since there are 100 available banks, I arbitrarily moved existing banks #1 & #2 to banks 50 & 51 so that I would not lose them. I now use banks #1 & #2 for my 28 program selections. I also keep a copy of my banks #1 & #2 in banks 40 & 41. I also use banks 40 & 41 as a "scratch" area to try out program changes I want to test. I have the Richard Noel Programs in banks 5 through 36.

John M.

 

[dan]

Thanks for sharing your approach, John. As I should have expected from the price tag, there are huge differences between the 8x and 1x. Too bad, the world of V-accordion owners interested in tinkering with the settings and discussing their findings was already a small group!

The PC editor for the 1x, 3x, and 7x can only view and modify User Sets. User Programs must be created on the instrument, although they can be saved and loaded from a flash drive. With only one bank of 8 register selections, overwriting existing User Programs is unavoidable, but I think I now have a system for keeping track.