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Roland-style Stradella

oldbayan

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I just bought a second-hand FR-3Xb in pristine condition, and still discovering its features (I had a FR-1Xb before so things look familiar) but I just realized that the Stradella bass row goes from E to F (bottom to top) where most boxes I have played had A at the bottom and Bb at the top! Not that I use those extreme positions often, but I was wondering why Roland does not follow the setup that others use!
 
perhaps

because in 25 years of FR3 3x you are the first person to even notice this ?

so (old saying)

a difference that makes no difference is not a difference

Roland did a lot of things without actually looking closely at any accordions first
or so it seems in hindsight

their Italian division certainly re-defined the word "arrogance"
 
I just bought a second-hand FR-3Xb in pristine condition, and still discovering its features (I had a FR-1Xb before so things look familiar) but I just realized that the Stradella bass row goes from E to F (bottom to top) where most boxes I have played had A at the bottom and Bb at the top! Not that I use those extreme positions often, but I was wondering why Roland does not follow the setup that others use!
If the C is still in the middle, wouldn't that mean "following the setup that others use"?
 
hardly

the innoation came from Ikaturo Kakehashi directly and personally
to define the goal.. the initial design came from Japan, the base Programming
framework came from Japan, the core basic Sampling was partly sourced
from the archival library thet Roland had established as a core progressive
and ongoing investment

then the project was assigned to the Europe division which was based in Italy
at the old SIEL factory which Roland had purchased long ago

there was nothing physical invented that did not already exist in some form
or other product, the task being to engineer existing knowledge into the
form factor of the accordion, and working out the details to achieve this

then the audio control Model created by Luigi bruti and patented by him, regarding
how the sound is evolved and affected in real time by various modeled
factors such as reed inertia, different pressures, influence from other reeds
vibrations, etc. was grafted onto the Roland VK control programming
and that was the difference, and new innovation perhaps, done partly so that the
entire design could be protected under patent from any other company attempting
a competing product. modeling was becoming common in Amplification at the time,
and was very trendy and easy to market

this control model is not unlike that done preiously with the piano, to make the
realism more lifelike as they took into consideration of all the many things
that happen after a piano key strikes a string and the rest of the Piano colors
the eventual sound on a string by string level (previously had been globally modeled)
to follow any direction of combined development of sound as the music is played.
and vibrations build up and interact.

the V-Accordion could have been created and marketed without the Bruti patent work
using existing models grown from digital wind instrument knowledge.

the entire marketing of the device then became absolutely founded and married
onto the philosophy of the Bruti note process engineering patent

this can certainly be called innovation in some ways, it can also be called
a velvet noose. Bruti's team then had total control of final sound programming
which is where the limitations and decisions andarrogance put on the final product
became what we had to live with and work around until the end of the product
software development and the closing of the Roland facility in Aqua Viva, Picena

the widely used Roland sound core LSIC finalized and put into production
at that time and stll being used today includes all the sound work done in Aqua Viva

the other offshoot is that the final price of the V-Accordions has always had to
include Royalties to Luigi personally for his privately owned patents

much of this philosophy of interaction during sound development to
follow reality in a physical instrument was continued into the Dexibell
project which began as Aqua Viva ended, and resulted in a very expensive
digital Piano model which then seeded an entire (Vivo) Piano line for them.
they have since added a sound module and Organ, but no accordion.
Dexibell is now under the umbrella of Proel Spa
 
I just bought a second-hand FR-3Xb in pristine condition, and still discovering its features (I had a FR-1Xb before so things look familiar) but I just realized that the Stradella bass row goes from E to F (bottom to top) where most boxes I have played had A at the bottom and Bb at the top! Not that I use those extreme positions often, but I was wondering why Roland does not follow the setup that others use!
The explanation is very simple. The Roland is a convertor accordion.
I have a few convertor accordions (120 bass), including Italian (Bugari) and Russian (AKKO) and they all have the Stradella bass going from E to F.
I also have a non-convertor accordion (120 bass, a Crucianelli), and the bass goes from A to Bb.
So whether you intend to use the convertor on the Roland or not, it is a convertor "accordion" and therefore has the Stradella bass going from E to F like other convertor accordions.
 
The explanation is very simple. The Roland is a convertor accordion.
I have a few convertor accordions (120 bass), including Italian (Bugari) and Russian (AKKO) and they all have the Stradella bass going from E to F.
I also have a non-convertor accordion (120 bass, a Crucianelli), and the bass goes from A to Bb.
So whether you intend to use the convertor on the Roland or not, it is a convertor "accordion" and therefore has the Stradella bass going from E to F like other convertor accordions.
After looking up "converter accordion", I suspect that the E as the lowest note is for matching the lowest note of a double bass.
 
The lowest note on many converters may well be E, but on the Titanos and other similar models here in the colonies (usually imported from Italy) the ranges go Bbb to A#, just as on the non converter models.

Looking for an absolute "standard" in any aspect of accordion layout is a bootless endeavour. There always seem to be several exceptions to any rule.

Heck- even the spelling- "converter" vs "convertor"- isn't standard...
 
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ACCORDIAN VS: ACCORDION

TOMATOE VS TOMAHTOE

POTATOE VS POTOTO

the lowest note was Johnny Cash singing "i walk the line"
 
After looking up "converter accordion", I suspect that the E as the lowest note is for matching the lowest note of a double bass.
The lowest note of a double base is C (C1 in fact, whereas the lowest note of a cello is C2).
Accordions with melody bass mostly have the melody bass go down to E1/E2 (in LM register).
A bass accordion (special instrument with only low notes and only a treble side) goes down to C1. It replaces the double base of a symphonic orchestra. C1 is also the lowest note for which you can buy reeds. No reed maker makes reeds for notes lower than C1.
While people who say that in accordions there are no "standard" layouts are correct in principle... most accordion makers use a large number of parts that are sourced from companies making them. As a result most parts and subassemblies in accordions are nowadays more or less de facto standardized to what suppliers make.
I have seen quite a few accordions by now (because I do repairs and tuning) and that one-row shift between the bass layout on accordions with convertor versus the ones without is pretty universal in my world (where "convertor" pretty uniformly means chromatic convertor, not quint convertor). And while people have commented here that for playing Stradella that one-row shift should be meaningless, I must confess that when I got my fist accordion with convertor it was quite noticeable that C had moved down one row. When I just used by "muscle memory" to move my (ring) finger to where I expected C to be I ended up on G (and to add to the confusion the G major button is a C in the melody bass in C system).
 
The lowest note of a double base is C (C1 in fact, whereas the lowest note of a cello is C2).
Accordions with melody bass mostly have the melody bass go down to E1/E2 (in LM register).
A bass accordion (special instrument with only low notes and only a treble side) goes down to C1. It replaces the double base of a symphonic orchestra. C1 is also the lowest note for which you can buy reeds. No reed maker makes reeds for notes lower than C1.
While people who say that in accordions there are no "standard" layouts are correct in principle... most accordion makers use a large number of parts that are sourced from companies making them. As a result most parts and subassemblies in accordions are nowadays more or less de facto standardized to what suppliers make.
I have seen quite a few accordions by now (because I do repairs and tuning) and that one-row shift between the bass layout on accordions with convertor versus the ones without is pretty universal in my world (where "convertor" pretty uniformly means chromatic convertor, not quint convertor). And while people have commented here that for playing Stradella that one-row shift should be meaningless, I must confess that when I got my fist accordion with convertor it was quite noticeable that C had moved down one row. When I just used by "muscle memory" to move my (ring) finger to where I expected C to be I ended up on G (and to add to the confusion the G major button is a C in the melody bass in C system).
Thank you! - No matter for this thread, but you disagree with Wikipedia (English and Dutch) regarding the Double Bass. :)
 
Thank you! - No matter for this thread, but you disagree with Wikipedia (English and Dutch) regarding the Double Bass. :)
Sadly Wikipedia is not a reliable source of information... but if you read the whole article it does cover the "C extension" used to allow a 4 string double base to play notes down to C1 (and actually also B0 as well). A 5 string double base often has a C1 string.
The reality is that all classical orchestral music expects the bass to go down to C1. Often the music uses the same part for the cello and bass, with the cello playing "as written" and the bass playing one octave lower. The music as written goes down to C2 and the bass has to go down to C1. Just look at music by Bach or Mozart or anyone else... and you will find bass parts going down to C1. I have also played in a (temporary) accordion ensemble with a double-base player... and his double base went down to C1 as expected.
For accordion: all modern bass accordions go down to C1. There are some older bass accordions that only went down to E1. When you have such a bass accordion you run into trouble because most work written (or arranged) for accordion orchestra assumes the bass goes down to C1... When playing classical (or baroque) music on an accordion with convertor, most likely going down to E1, you also have trouble coping with the even lower notes. Some rare accordions do go down to C1.
 
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The lowest note on many converters may well be E, but on the Titanos and other similar models here in the colonies (usually imported from Italy) the ranges go Bbb to A#, just as on the non converter models.
Absolutely, Quint converter will be just the same as standard bass accordions. My Pigini built Quint converter is just the same as the other Quints too. Certainly I believe there were A LOT of Titano QC's produced over the years. I was astonished to read that by 1975, 70% of all Titano's built were Quint converter free bass. I guess there will be piles of them in America... I'd love to get my hands on a Titano; either the Royal, Cosmopolitan, Virtuoso, Emperor or Super Emperor. :love:

However, I didn't know that the chromatic converter systems: B, Russian, C & Finnish (sorry if I have forgotten some others) were different from Quint in the extreme "end notes"...

Of course, in terms of pitch they are different too. You have two "low note" options with Quint - its C2 like the Cello or C1 like the... what goes down to C1 again?:unsure:
 
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