• If you haven't done so already, please add a location to your profile. This helps when people are trying to assist you, suggest resources, etc. Thanks

Noisy bass mechanism..

JIM D.

Been here for ages!
Technical Adviser
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
5,092
Reaction score
748
Paul is quiet right -- you can make these from old or new screwdrivers. I've made these for years now for
friends I mentor. I have also cut brass tubbing to hold the levers for adjustment.
 

Ffingers

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 28, 2021
Messages
574
Reaction score
792
Location
SouthWestern Australia
Paul is quiet right -- you can make these from old or new screwdrivers. I've made these for years now for
friends I mentor. I have also cut brass tubbing to hold the levers for adjustment.
Paul "quiet"?
In what universe? ;)
(As for the brass tubs, I am at a loss) ;)
 

debra

Been here for ages!
Technical Adviser
Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
4,691
Reaction score
2,090
Location
Eindhoven, the Nnetherlannds
Paul "quiet"?
In what universe? ;)
(As for the brass tubs, I am at a loss) ;)
I'm never quiet indeed... :) but my typing skills are not much better than Jim's these days...
What Jim means with the brass tubes is that you slide a brass tube over the lever and then you can easily change its position slightly. That only works to move the lever left or right. Moving it up or down is a bit harder (as it rotates that way) and to change its shape (for instance to bend it in order to make it touch two pistons (one behind the other) simultaneously) you definitely need the tool that can be made from a screwdriver.
 

boxplayer4000

Well-known member
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
604
Reaction score
252
Location
Near Edinburgh. Scotland.
I hope I'm right in saying those tools should be used in pairs (as with those used on the treble keys). One tool to take the strain off the part you are bending and the other to do the actual bending. Jim talks about using tubing and I assume, maybe wrongly, that the tubing is the tool slipped over the lever to take the strain (or is it the other way around?).
Memory Lane: Charlie Marshall, early pioneer of mega P.A. systems for The Beatles etc. was a keen accordionist in his spare time. He supplied P.A. and accordion midi parts and his wife June, who was Scottish, had a soft spot for customers north of the border. She sent me a reed scraper and reed pinger about 40 years ago. Like many others I've made my own tools over the years.
 

debra

Been here for ages!
Technical Adviser
Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
4,691
Reaction score
2,090
Location
Eindhoven, the Nnetherlannds
I hope I'm right in saying those tools should be used in pairs (as with those used on the treble keys). One tool to take the strain off the part you are bending and the other to do the actual bending. Jim talks about using tubing and I assume, maybe wrongly, that the tubing is the tool slipped over the lever to take the strain (or is it the other way around?).
Memory Lane: Charlie Marshall, early pioneer of mega P.A. systems for The Beatles etc. was a keen accordionist in his spare time. He supplied P.A. and accordion midi parts and his wife June, who was Scottish, had a soft spot for customers north of the border. She sent me a reed scraper and reed pinger about 40 years ago. Like many others I've made my own tools over the years.
Tubing sounds most useful to me for left-right movement, gently bending the lever sideways while having the tube maybe 1/3" over the end of the lever. The "screwdriver" bending tool is used for bending in any direction when the position where the bend is needed is deeper inside the mechanism. The tools are then not used together.
 

boxplayer4000

Well-known member
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
604
Reaction score
252
Location
Near Edinburgh. Scotland.
It would be interesting to know the method of attaching the levers to their rods. I suspect it's not soldering. Is brazing or fusion welding possible?
Whatever it is I would be very reluctant to try and bend the lever and to rely on the soldered/brazed/welded joint to take the strain while bending
with only one tool. ie. not use a second tool to take the strain off the joint.
 

colinm

Well-known member
Joined
May 29, 2013
Messages
419
Reaction score
33
Location
Market weighton, UK
Losthobos, I have never had much success with bending and twisting random pieces. I would try to establish exactly where the noise is coming from first by pushing individual buttons with the bass end off and no sound being made.
You can get at the first row of levers, stubs , tubes catorcetti whatever quite easily but there are several rows behind which are difficult to get at without moving rows in front of them.
But I am sure you know this.
 

JIM D.

Been here for ages!
Technical Adviser
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
5,092
Reaction score
748
I must apologize my omission in stating that BOTH a rod bending tool & a correct brass tubbing section is
required to align the piston rods properly.
A section of brass tubing & a rod bending tool is also required to properly align a bent bass button.
You must be aware that you are working with soft aluminum pistons and soft metal levers that will fail
& break with continued bending.

And Paul, I do appreciate your reference to "both" of us in our typing skills. 😅
 
Last edited:

pitzelberger

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2016
Messages
32
Reaction score
14
Location
Berlin, Germany
The "screwdriver" bending tool is used for bending in any direction when the position where the bend is needed is deeper inside the mechanism.
Could you share some more insights how you use this tool? In particular, how do you prevent that the levers just rotate while trying to do the bending? Do you use two of them, one to fixate the lever and one to bend or can it be done with a single one?
 

boxplayer4000

Well-known member
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
604
Reaction score
252
Location
Near Edinburgh. Scotland.
pitzelberger: If you use only one tool to bend the lever then the strain/force of doing this is transferred to weaker/vulnerable parts of the lever or its fixings which might be broken or damaged. A second tool is need which takes the strain off the vulnerable parts and works in the opposite direction of the tool you're using to bend it in the first place.
I tend to hoard. My garage has a lot of saved parts. There's room for everything except the car. I located parts from a dismantled bass unit including rods with levers attached. No doubt the parts were pre-war but I found I could bend the levers easily and repeatedly without causing any damage or breaking the joint between lever and rod.
 

Dingo40

Been here for ages!
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
3,292
Reaction score
2,177
Location
South Australia
"Action and reaction are equal and opposite."🙂
As Boxplayer has already said, the problem, when bending things accordion, is to avoid inadvertently applying "action" (force) to a component or join unable to withstand it.
A similar situation arises when removing the spindle in a water tap (valve) in order to repla a worn "washer ". Unless precautions are taken to counter the turning effect transmitted to the weakest link attaching the tap to its location, you may easily end up with the entire tap coming away from its mounting!😀
Hence two tools acting in opposite directions simultaneously are needed. 🙂
 
Last edited:

boxplayer4000

Well-known member
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
604
Reaction score
252
Location
Near Edinburgh. Scotland.
losthobos: The thread has wandered a bit away from your original problem ie. noisy basses. I wondered if you had felt any benefit at all from the many opinions expressed or better still a course of action to follow. The subject is difficult to deal with at a distance.
 

losthobos

Prolific poster
Site Supporter
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
1,593
Reaction score
926
Location
Essex UK
@boxplayer4000 , I've been really grateful for all the insightful posts on this thread...
I think Paul has nailed the problem area as sound of pinking on releasing button is most likely metal on metal..
I do not have the tools to attempt the job and probably consider the risk of damage greater than the annoyance of the odd pink here and there
I may take a little time and see if it is just occuring on a couple of rods and then note them down...should I then be with someone more competent and less cack handed than me they can have a pop...
In retrospect the clutter is pretty minor really and I'd never noticed until I started playing the Ella...and when I listen to studio recordings of the piermaria I can't hear any clatter...
Just the holy grail is always round the next corner...
Thanks to everyone who contributed
 

Tom

Been here for ages!
Site Supporter
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
3,025
Reaction score
1,575
Location
USA
@boxplayer4000 , I've been really grateful for all the insightful posts on this thread...
I think Paul has nailed the problem area as sound of pinking on releasing button is most likely metal on metal..
I do not have the tools to attempt the job and probably consider the risk of damage greater than the annoyance of the odd pink here and there
I may take a little time and see if it is just occuring on a couple of rods and then note them down...should I then be with someone more competent and less cack handed than me they can have a pop...
In retrospect the clutter is pretty minor really and I'd never noticed until I started playing the Ella...and when I listen to studio recordings of the piermaria I can't hear any clatter...
Just the holy grail is always round the next corner...
Thanks to everyone who contributed
Always good when you can determine a flaw is actually a feature. Just saying...
 
Similar threads

Similar threads

Top