Noisy bass mechanism..

[JIM D.]

Paul is quiet right -- you can make these from old or new screwdrivers. I've made these for years now for
friends I mentor. I have also cut brass tubbing to hold the levers for adjustment.

 

[Ffingers]

Paul is quiet right -- you can make these from old or new screwdrivers. I've made these for years now for
friends I mentor. I have also cut brass tubbing to hold the levers for adjustment.

Paul "quiet"?
In what universe?
(As for the brass tubs, I am at a loss)

 

[debra]

Paul "quiet"?
In what universe?
(As for the brass tubs, I am at a loss)

I'm never quiet indeed... but my typing skills are not much better than Jim's these days...
What Jim means with the brass tubes is that you slide a brass tube over the lever and then you can easily change its position slightly. That only works to move the lever left or right. Moving it up or down is a bit harder (as it rotates that way) and to change its shape (for instance to bend it in order to make it touch two pistons (one behind the other) simultaneously) you definitely need the tool that can be made from a screwdriver.

 

[boxplayer4000]

I hope I'm right in saying those tools should be used in pairs (as with those used on the treble keys). One tool to take the strain off the part you are bending and the other to do the actual bending. Jim talks about using tubing and I assume, maybe wrongly, that the tubing is the tool slipped over the lever to take the strain (or is it the other way around?).
Memory Lane: Charlie Marshall, early pioneer of mega P.A. systems for The Beatles etc. was a keen accordionist in his spare time. He supplied P.A. and accordion midi parts and his wife June, who was Scottish, had a soft spot for customers north of the border. She sent me a reed scraper and reed pinger about 40 years ago. Like many others I've made my own tools over the years.

 

[debra]

I hope I'm right in saying those tools should be used in pairs (as with those used on the treble keys). One tool to take the strain off the part you are bending and the other to do the actual bending. Jim talks about using tubing and I assume, maybe wrongly, that the tubing is the tool slipped over the lever to take the strain (or is it the other way around?).
Memory Lane: Charlie Marshall, early pioneer of mega P.A. systems for The Beatles etc. was a keen accordionist in his spare time. He supplied P.A. and accordion midi parts and his wife June, who was Scottish, had a soft spot for customers north of the border. She sent me a reed scraper and reed pinger about 40 years ago. Like many others I've made my own tools over the years.

Tubing sounds most useful to me for left-right movement, gently bending the lever sideways while having the tube maybe 1/3" over the end of the lever. The "screwdriver" bending tool is used for bending in any direction when the position where the bend is needed is deeper inside the mechanism. The tools are then not used together.

 

[losthobos]

This tube tool sounds like a stroke of genius... necessity is the mother of invention I've heard said...

 

[boxplayer4000]

It would be interesting to know the method of attaching the levers to their rods. I suspect it's not soldering. Is brazing or fusion welding possible?
Whatever it is I would be very reluctant to try and bend the lever and to rely on the soldered/brazed/welded joint to take the strain while bending
with only one tool. ie. not use a second tool to take the strain off the joint.

 

[colinm]

Losthobos, I have never had much success with bending and twisting random pieces. I would try to establish exactly where the noise is coming from first by pushing individual buttons with the bass end off and no sound being made.
You can get at the first row of levers, stubs , tubes catorcetti whatever quite easily but there are several rows behind which are difficult to get at without moving rows in front of them.
But I am sure you know this.

 

[JIM D.]

I must apologize my omission in stating that BOTH a rod bending tool & a correct brass tubbing section is
required to align the piston rods properly.

RESALET Round Brass Telescopic Tube, 1mm 2mm 3mm 4mm 5mm 6mm 7mm 8mm 9mm 10mm OD x 0.2mm Wall Thickness 300mm Length Seamless Straight Pipe Tubing, Pack of 10 Pcs: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

RESALET Round Brass Telescopic Tube, 1mm 2mm 3mm 4mm 5mm 6mm 7mm 8mm 9mm 10mm OD x 0.2mm Wall Thickness 300mm Length Seamless Straight Pipe Tubing, Pack of 10 Pcs: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

A section of brass tubing & a rod bending tool is also required to properly align a bent bass button.
You must be aware that you are working with soft aluminum pistons and soft metal levers that will fail
& break with continued bending.

And Paul, I do appreciate your reference to "both" of us in our typing skills.

 

[pitzelberger]

The "screwdriver" bending tool is used for bending in any direction when the position where the bend is needed is deeper inside the mechanism.

Could you share some more insights how you use this tool? In particular, how do you prevent that the levers just rotate while trying to do the bending? Do you use two of them, one to fixate the lever and one to bend or can it be done with a single one?

 

[boxplayer4000]

pitzelberger: If you use only one tool to bend the lever then the strain/force of doing this is transferred to weaker/vulnerable parts of the lever or its fixings which might be broken or damaged. A second tool is need which takes the strain off the vulnerable parts and works in the opposite direction of the tool you're using to bend it in the first place.
I tend to hoard. My garage has a lot of saved parts. There's room for everything except the car. I located parts from a dismantled bass unit including rods with levers attached. No doubt the parts were pre-war but I found I could bend the levers easily and repeatedly without causing any damage or breaking the joint between lever and rod.

 

[boxplayer4000]

I didn't think of it earlier but the use of two tools in the bending process is a perfect example of Newton's 3rd Law of Motion.

 

[Dingo40]

"Action and reaction are equal and opposite."
As Boxplayer has already said, the problem, when bending things accordion, is to avoid inadvertently applying "action" (force) to a component or join unable to withstand it.
A similar situation arises when removing the spindle in a water tap (valve) in order to repla a worn "washer ". Unless precautions are taken to counter the turning effect transmitted to the weakest link attaching the tap to its location, you may easily end up with the entire tap coming away from its mounting!
Hence two tools acting in opposite directions simultaneously are needed.

 

[Ffingers]

Hence two tools acting in opposite directions simultaneously are needed.

Sounds like the average pub brawl

 

[boxplayer4000]

losthobos: The thread has wandered a bit away from your original problem ie. noisy basses. I wondered if you had felt any benefit at all from the many opinions expressed or better still a course of action to follow. The subject is difficult to deal with at a distance.

 

[losthobos]

@boxplayer4000 , I've been really grateful for all the insightful posts on this thread...
I think Paul has nailed the problem area as sound of pinking on releasing button is most likely metal on metal..
I do not have the tools to attempt the job and probably consider the risk of damage greater than the annoyance of the odd pink here and there
I may take a little time and see if it is just occuring on a couple of rods and then note them down...should I then be with someone more competent and less cack handed than me they can have a pop...
In retrospect the clutter is pretty minor really and I'd never noticed until I started playing the Ella...and when I listen to studio recordings of the piermaria I can't hear any clatter...
Just the holy grail is always round the next corner...
Thanks to everyone who contributed

 

[Tom]

@boxplayer4000 , I've been really grateful for all the insightful posts on this thread...
I think Paul has nailed the problem area as sound of pinking on releasing button is most likely metal on metal..
I do not have the tools to attempt the job and probably consider the risk of damage greater than the annoyance of the odd pink here and there
I may take a little time and see if it is just occuring on a couple of rods and then note them down...should I then be with someone more competent and less cack handed than me they can have a pop...
In retrospect the clutter is pretty minor really and I'd never noticed until I started playing the Ella...and when I listen to studio recordings of the piermaria I can't hear any clatter...
Just the holy grail is always round the next corner...
Thanks to everyone who contributed

Always good when you can determine a flaw is actually a feature. Just saying...

 

[Ikesaccordions]

Most likely culprit (without looking) is lackof bushings around the buttons. The bushings though, if installed new, might require reaming the hole around the buttons. I admit I've never done that surgery.
I'll note that I've an Excelsior Continental 33lb behemoth (that I don't want) in which the bass valve pads are as thick as the treble pads, for noise cancellation due to pickups in the bass machine cavity.
On some fancy accordions, there is an extra set of 12 levers attached to the long rods that hit a flat damper down by the end of the mechanism. in addition to the button bushings often present. The bushings themselves can swell with humidity and cause friction which may account for their omission.
I doubt if the catorcetti are an issue since, if they be touching the pistons, there would be more problems than just noise.

 

[Ventura]

we don't need no stinkin' Treble frequencies on the Bass side...

hehehe

can add a high-cut tone control that just sinks those higher
clickety clack noises to ground.. with a potentiometer it is adjustable
so when you NEED higher frequencies through to the Amp you can,
but also you can strongly trim most of the noise when necessary

if you configure it as a passive circuit (just a simple RC filter soldered on)
then you have to experiment to get just the right amount of "cut"

 

[Ikesaccordions]

It would be interesting to know the method of attaching the levers to their rods. I suspect it's not soldering. Is brazing or fusion welding possible?
Whatever it is I would be very reluctant to try and bend the lever and to rely on the soldered/brazed/welded joint to take the strain while bending
with only one tool. ie. not use a second tool to take the strain off the joint.

Depends on how the joint was made. Rarely it might have been merely soldered Then it will break for sure. Newe machines are pretty safe to adjust.