I find looking at the keys very helpful in learning a new tune. Something about the visual seems to help cement the action in the “muscle memory.”
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Long-term piano accordionist newly learning CBA - experiences?
- Thread starter vivdunstan
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I’m still at the learning where notes are relative to each other on the CBA stage. So will gladly look as I work it out when playing a new for me tune. Though I’m already often not looking, which I was surprised by.
I did notice Monsieur Maugain looking down at the buttons as I watched the video. Equally though he also often shuts his eyes, even when seemingly looking down. I ain’t trying that!
When I first started to learn to play CBA (coming from PA) I would sometimes look and then I was momentarily in shock because what I saw was not a piano keyboard. My brain knew I was playing CBA and was guiding my fingers, but my visual part of the brain could not yet process what it saw when looking at the button keyboard... Luckily that is all in the past now. I can look without getting confused, but I just don't look at all.
Yikes! Luckily I’m not having that reaction visually at all. My brain just thinks it’s a differently shaped keyboard. But I’m definitely still at the stage of thinking looking is helping me learn - and including physically in my fingers - how the notes relate to each other in space.
Good for you, your story is inspiring! Only problem I see with looking at the keys is the same as looking at the sheet music, it makes it harder to maintain contact with the audience. One another note, I’m getting away from writing in fingerings, which I used to do all the time. Seems like it distracts from looking at the notes, and it’s better to build the memory by letting the fingers naturally find their own way by repeated playing, since my goal is to play everything from memory.
I’m not writing down fingerings at all, including in the tune I recorded last night. I prefer to find them naturally as I play. And seem to be able to repeat the moves, or improve as needed! I honestly had expected I’d be writing down fingerings. My first tuition book has fingerings printed in it, which have been very helpful as I learn from scratch. But I’m not writing them myself.
Ventura
Been here for ages!
i suspect it is for similar reasons some of us prefer to make love with the lights on..
and yes occasionally close our eyes completely..
and yes occasionally close our eyes completely..
OuijaBoard
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I seem to be a little more comfortable flying on the trapeze without a net on CBA than on PA. But almost never play 100% blind without even a glance or two. I definitely have more leap anxiety with PA. Arpeggio Anxiety Syndrome.
Yep, I'm so glad now that I started putting in the time to learn CBA--it did take a good five-plus years to get automatic fluency, but I'm now playing both depending on what's right for the occasion. I play largely instrumental world folk genres, and firmly believe the joys of small boxes should not be consigned only to the bisonoric players. One of the wonderful things about CBA is how you can get 30 treble notes in a chassis the size of a 26-key PA. I'd been playing small 4-rows, and that's still my favorite, but about a year and a half ago it dawned on me that I could finger Irish and the Scottish/Shetland/Cape Breton tunes on a small 3-row. So now I use a little 3-row, 48-bass Hohner for sessions and for festivals of those genres, where I'm lugging the box around huge fairgrounds, and it's like getting out of jail.
It's unbelievable--30 treble notes in an 11 pound package. That sounds and responds just like the vintage old-school MM Hohners beloved by players of Irish, Tex-Mex and other roots genres. Up Sandy Brechin, up Michael Sheehy, Josephine Marsh, Charlie Piggott, Conor Connolly! We have a gent in the Scottish ensemble I play with who has a large Bugari PA. It's great and so is he, but I do notice him looking wistfully at my little puppies, and the last time I saw him he said something like, "Maybe I ought to get something smaller too."
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SteveBox
Active member
It is possible to have an even lighter CBA. The one I play at trad sessions is 36 notes/2 reeds at 4kg (8.8lbs). It has a 24-bass Darwin system (12 bass notes, 12 open chords). It is no bigger than most of the diatonic melodeons more commonly played at sessions, but it has a larger 3 octave range (E to Eb). To my knowledge, only a few French (primarily diatonic) accordion makers build these. This one comes from Atelier Loffet.
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Checking in again, and it's just over 6 months since I got my 60-bass French CBA C-system from Maugein. I'd never played CBA in my life before, despite over 45 years of being a piano accordionist. I've been learning the CBA ever since then, managing a good solid practice every week or two, teaching myself from the Maugain series of French tuition books. Sadly with my progressive neurological disease I'm too weak to play more frequently. However the technique is sticking solidly! And I absolutely adore it. As of now I'm still diligently doing exercises in the Maugain tuition book 1 alongside the many tunes there. Today I was working repeatedly for nearly half an hour through a 2-page set of complex right hand exercises near the end of the book, to build good right hand control and manage transitions smoothly. Tricky stuff! In the New Year I will be aiming to move onto Maugain book 2 (there are 3 in total) alongside playing my own favourite tunes from my own sheet music arrangements, and continuing to play by ear. My practice sessions consist of playing through the Maugain book mainly, then playing some other tunes for fun, either from sheet music or by ear. It's always very enjoyable, and I'm loving how the technique is sticking and improving.
Best of all the CBA accordion right hand position feels so natural to me. Indeed it has since the day my box arrived 6 months ago, and I was immediately playing Sous Le Ciel De Paris by ear. Maugain has fingering indications early on, but they reduce in frequency later in the book. When playing other tunes e.g. my own arrangements I don't write down fingering, but just play. And it works out. I've been pleasantly surprised how natural this all feels to me. The Maugein box was an excellent choice for size and weight, but the right hand buttons are also an excellent fit for my hand. It has 4 rows, and I very occasionally play on the 4th row. But usually I'm playing just the first 3 rows. Mostly without thumb, but occasionally using it (per Maugain). I expected the right hand to feel more peculiar than it does. It's a very different pose from playing the piano accordion. But it just clicked with me immediately. And as I've commented here before it seems to be helping me recover better right hand control generally that I'd lost due to brain damage from my illness.
I do slightly regret not getting a musette tuned CBA box - it was calling to me! But I know I made the right choice. There are enough wrong notes - and repeated exercises over and over - that that tuning would not be forgiving to even my Scots ears! The swing tuning I asked for is very warm and mellow, and lovely to listen to. So overall happy.
Anyway just wanted to check in and say how I'm doing. I am looking forward to the New Year with my box! Oh and of course I am still playing my adored piano accordion! But it's the CBA I'm looking to improve and develop core skills on.
Best of all the CBA accordion right hand position feels so natural to me. Indeed it has since the day my box arrived 6 months ago, and I was immediately playing Sous Le Ciel De Paris by ear. Maugain has fingering indications early on, but they reduce in frequency later in the book. When playing other tunes e.g. my own arrangements I don't write down fingering, but just play. And it works out. I've been pleasantly surprised how natural this all feels to me. The Maugein box was an excellent choice for size and weight, but the right hand buttons are also an excellent fit for my hand. It has 4 rows, and I very occasionally play on the 4th row. But usually I'm playing just the first 3 rows. Mostly without thumb, but occasionally using it (per Maugain). I expected the right hand to feel more peculiar than it does. It's a very different pose from playing the piano accordion. But it just clicked with me immediately. And as I've commented here before it seems to be helping me recover better right hand control generally that I'd lost due to brain damage from my illness.
I do slightly regret not getting a musette tuned CBA box - it was calling to me! But I know I made the right choice. There are enough wrong notes - and repeated exercises over and over - that that tuning would not be forgiving to even my Scots ears! The swing tuning I asked for is very warm and mellow, and lovely to listen to. So overall happy.
Anyway just wanted to check in and say how I'm doing. I am looking forward to the New Year with my box! Oh and of course I am still playing my adored piano accordion! But it's the CBA I'm looking to improve and develop core skills on.
I pray for considerable dissimilarity regarding the faces I am making. The accordion ones are pretty bad as relayed by videographic evidence.
Congratulations on your steady progress! I began CBA 8 months ago after playing PA for 50+ years. It looks like I’ll stick with it as well. My reasoning was for a new challenge, but primarily for the reduced size and weight.
I didn’t know there was a third Maugain book; hope I can find it. I’m enjoying Galliano’s song selections in his tutor.
Your efforts show you to be a pretty proficient musician, as opposed to my status of mere (life long) hobbyist.
Should my progress continue as I hope, I’d upgrade a bit from my Fisitalia Junior, which basically duplicates my 37/ 96 PA at about eight pounds less weight in a year or two.
Thank you for sharing. Wishing you the best on your musical journey, and Happy Holidays!
The ISBN is 9790230973885. It's available through Amazon.com, though a bit costly there. If you put the ISBN into https://www.bookfinder.com you may find other places to get it from.
Lovely to hear from you! Our timescales of PA and CBA playing are so very similar. All the best with your continued accordion playing too.
Thank you Viv! ---Joe
When I saw my Mum the other day I played her a tune on my French chromatic button accordion. My choice of tune was Sunrise Sunset from Fiddler on the Roof. Including up to 3-note right hand harmonies. And played without reference to sheet music. This is a stage I never thought I'd be at so soon with this totally different accordion system (I am a long term piano accordionist, but had never played chromatic button accordion before mine arrived from France in June). I said I'd play her a different tune on it next time I'm down there. And I've now picked it. Sous Le Ciel De Paris, a classic French musette piece. I haven't played it properly on accordion before, but I did have a fun go by ear straight after unpacking my wee French squeezebox. I have a nice sheet music version, in a kinder different key, so will learn that for Mum. But without all the fancy twiddles. I do not promise to play this one without sheet music!
Sharing this here for a statement of intent for my goals in early 2024
And some added accountability!
And here is what I'm looking to learn. Though I will be simplifying it in some places! I do intend for multi-note harmonies though in the very rich harmonic middle section.
Sharing this here for a statement of intent for my goals in early 2024
And some added accountability!And here is what I'm looking to learn. Though I will be simplifying it in some places! I do intend for multi-note harmonies though in the very rich harmonic middle section.
Good plan! It’s one that’s on my list to arrange and learn for the 2024 season.
When I started with accordion (PA at that time), I used the "Musette-Melodien" of the Holzschuhverlag "akkordeon pur" series. Very accessible base material. "Sous le ciel de Paris" had a bit of twiddleness to it but not a whole lot. I cannot vouch for the same level of C system suitability as some of the originals are likely to have but that's likely more relevant for twiddlier variants.
Probably should dig a few of those out again: good return of investment with regard to practising.
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I've got that book! And the Edith Piaf one in the same series, which also has this tune in there. Plus umpteen more "akkordeon pur" books. I'll have another look before starting. But I think I'll be sticking with the music I've got. It's in a fab key, and is a version I really want to play, and reckon I can build up incrementally. I can certainly have fun trying!
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