Is this normal? Chromatic Accordion

[vaeel]

Hello

Im tempted to buy a chromatic accordion. but i noticed the treble buttoms are a little different from what i've normally seen. Most chromatics i see have a "stair" type of thing where buttoms are located. This one has a flat surface, and buttoms are "sunk" in it. Is this normal? is it harder or easier to play? does it affect somehow the playability?

 

[Deleted member 48]

Hello,

I would like to give my personal opinion. For a CBA, chromatic button accordion, music teachers in official public music schools prefer the T-style "mushroom" type of buttons. These buttons don't get stuck, and the little felted ring under every button makes it noiseless.

I strongly recommend these T-style "mushroom" buttons for CBAs, with a stepped keyboard or "stair" type of keyboard.

These "sunk in" buttons on a flat surface will badly affect your CBA playing technique.

I know in Mexico and in Switzerland, you can find these "sunk in" button keyboards, but they are copy past transfer from the diatonic melodeons and oergeli to the chromatic button accordion.

Take my advice , don't do it... If you to play fast and "wild" texmex music, and in Mexico they play some pretty fast merengue on the accordion... your buttons will get stuck in no time.

I can't tell from your pics, but it is possible this "sunk in buttons" keyboard is a made in China...?

 

[debra]

I actually have both types. I have a Hohner Morino Artiste XS with the flat keyboard (Swiss type) and I do not find this to be a problem at all. If anything is a problem it is that Hohner marks A, C# and G# with textured keys while almost all other manufacturers mark C and F. But that's not different between flat or stepped keyboard. I have several accordions with the stepped keyboard, and this is also not a problem. The flat keyboard makes glissando easier. Other than that the differences that matter are in keyboard position, amount of key travel and key size (we have accordions with three different size buttons, but my main accordion has a stepped keyboard with the same size keys as the flat keyboard.
It is certainly not true that a stepped keyboard is noiseless any more than a flat keyboard. The flat keyboard has felt dampers in a different place, but they work the same. No accordion I have seen is noiseless in terms of keyboard.

 

[maugein96]

Hi Vaeel,

A friend of mine plays Swiss Landler music and he has two accordions with flat treble keyboards, a Borsini and a Paolo Soprani, like the red one in the pics. He assures me that there is no disadvantage to accordions with push in treble buttons, as he has both types. The flat treble keyboard is also used extensively on CBA accordions in Serbia and Sweden.

For what it's worth, although the keyboard is flat, the treble buttons are actually "stepped" in their respective rows below the flat surface of the keyboard, and if you look closely you'll see that the flat keyboard is mounted so that it inclines upwards towards the grille. Therefore, there isn't really any difference with your hand position with either type of keyboard. When the treble buttons are fully depressed they are still a few mm above the top of the keyboard so sticking buttons should not occur, unless some sort of problem occurs in the treble control lever, in which case you can just unscrew the whole keyboard cover and lift it off without having to remove every treble button, like you would need to do with a "normal" stepped keyboard.

Incidentally, the black accordion in the first pic is a B system (row of three white buttons on rows 1 and 4).

 

[vaeel]

I cant tell from your pics, but it is possible this sunk in buttons keyboard is a made in China...?

Its actually made in italy by sonus, allegedly the brand of a bugari accordions importer (i did found a bugari model with the same treble couplers, but cant remember the model now).

Accordion seems good quality, but now im unsure about it, i have researched the forum and found this topic has been brought up before and i dont think anyone would prefer a flat one over a stepped one wich tells me something about it.

 

[yc360]

Agreed. I have 10+ CBAs, two of those are flat button type, morino and a excelsior who was also the maker of the morino at the time. I found the flat type response slower and the button surface smaller and more slippery. Also, my otherwise perfect excelsior has the middle A button easily stuck and very hard to dig up. I opened the back and found the rod is somehow not doing a good job. For CBA the button rods are not easily get to as the piano type. So I decided to live with it rather than making it worse:/

 

[Deleted member 48]

I hold my position: T-style mushroom buttons, and a stepped keyboard.
Best persons you can ask are the classical conservatory trained chromatic button accordion teachers.

Today most accordion makers have a range from high end to lowcost accordions.
Even the Bugari company.

Sunk in button keyboards usually (not always) are used in lower end accordions.
Very often a single thin cloth of felt is placed under the button mechanics.

No accordion is of course 100% noiseless, but with good quality felt, the mushroom buttons are noiseless.

 

[debra]

I hold my position: T-style mushroom buttons, and a stepped keyboard.
Best persons you can ask are the classical conservatory trained chromatic button accordion teachers.

I dont know, because I dont know any Swiss conservatory trained CBA teachers.
The flat keyboard on better accordions is a regional thing, it is not a quality thing.

T...
Very often a single thin cloth of felt is placed under the button mechanics.

No accordion is of course 100% noiseless, but with good quality felt, the mushroom buttons are noiseless.

The keyboard on a (quality) flat keyboard is just as noiseless as a stepped one when pressing down the keys because the felt has the same function. When releasing a key there is no difference in how it is dampened: by the pallet closing the holes for the sound. Apart from the buttons themselves the keyboard mechanisms and the pallets are the same and will make exactly the same noise.
No doubt that the flat keyboards on cheap (chinese) accordions will make more noise than stepped keyboards found on more expensive accordions. But on say a Hohner Morino there will be no difference between these keyboard options.

 

[TomBR]

Both keyboards have the buttons in one plane (in the mathematical sense of a flat surface.) The only real difference is that in a flat keyboard the button tops are parallel with that plane, in the stepped keyboard they are slightly tilted away from it.

 

[Anyanka]

I have two CBAs - the Pigini 5-row is stepped with 'mushrooms', the old Hohner Amati 3-row is flat with sunk-in buttons. I'm happy with both (5 rows are preferable over 3, but the buttons don't make much of a difference). As Paul says, glissando is easier on the flat keyboard.

 

[Deleted member 48]

Vincent Lhermet made a pdf where you can find the music conservatories in Europe offering accordion courses.
The Swiss conservatories are listed in this document. This document is dated 2014, the pdf is free for download on his website:

http://www.vincentlhermet.fr/works/publications/
Répertoire de l’enseignement supérieur de l’accordéon en Europe
Publication – 2014
Etat des lieux de l’enseignement supérieur de l’accordéon dans les 28 pays de l’Union Européenne et de l’Espace Schengen.
Ce projet a reçu le soutien du Conservatoire de Paris (CNSMDP) et de l’Association Européenne des Conservatoires (AEC)

If you look for YouTube videos with conservatory trained chromatic button accordion teachers, all of them are playing stepped keyboard with T-form buttons. These T-form buttons can not sink in, there is a broad consensus amongst accordion teachers this type of buttons is ergonomically the best.
In Europe, Russia, China, USA, the conservatory teachers and students all play this type of buttons.

Even in high quality diatonic melodeons you very often find T-form buttons. Even there, traditions can be changed.

Also more and more young Swiss CBA players use T-form buttons, the sunk in buttons are indeed used because of regional and local traditions from the past. Im sure a good player can play with the sunk in buttons, but, as said above, they are also a bit more slippery.

Just check the online videos of modern CBA teachers, how many can you find using sunk in buttons compared to the quantity of T-form button players?

 

[debra]

...
Just check the online videos of modern CBA teachers, how many can you find using sunk in buttons compared to the quantity of T-form button players?

Flat button keyboards (on good accordions) are very rare indeed. Since they were mainly made for Switzerland and have even fallen out of favor there it is no surprise. Doesnt mean they are not normal and I can testify that a good accordion with a flat keyboard can play very well and it isnt really more difficult to play than a stepped keyboard. Still, I have been considering converting my flat keyboard accordion to a stepped keyboard, but it is a big job...