Information, Value on Carbonari Accordions?

[Xiane]

Hi Accordionists,

I'm an Irish button box player, but find myself wanting more basses for accompaniment so am cautiously exploring the mysterious and exotic world of...piano accordions and their many basses.

I came across this accordion that looks great at any rate, but can't find out much about it. I think it's from the 1960s. Can anyone tell me more, and offer guidance to what it might be worth paying for it, with only pictures in hand? My heart isn't set or anything, but it certainly is pretty...

Thanks in advance for help!

 

[Ventura]

1950's to 1960's because of the grill design, that it is not a
full wrap around one piece, but 2 sides and a middle type

without seeing the 5 shifts better, i cannot say if it is a 3 reed
true LMM (one low, 2 middles) which it should be, and would be
desirable for an adult wanting a versatile sound variation and
useful for ethnic music as well as general purpose
or
as was often the case, an LM 2 reed with extra, duplicate shifts
to trick accordion buying parents (back in the day)

so a couple hundred max if a 2 reed to maybe $500 or so if a 3 reed

if you read back on student accordions here in old threads you can
learn how to distinguish when trying them in person, and other
things to look for, and how to test them out

good luck, it is a pretty shiny thing.. i gave one like this to a
student some years ago.. it had nice sounding reeds.. don't recall
the brand name..

 

[Dingo40]

Interesting sidelight on the name:
"Carbonari, (Italian dialect: “Charcoal Burners”) in early 19th-century Italy, members of a secret society (the Carboneria) advocating liberal and patriotic ideas."

 

[Xiane]

1950's to 1960's because of the grill design, that it is not a
full wrap around one piece, but 2 sides and a middle type

without seeing the 5 shifts better, i cannot say if it is a 3 reed
true LMM (one low, 2 middles) which it should be, and would be
desirable for an adult wanting a versatile sound variation and
useful for ethnic music as well as general purpose
or
as was often the case, an LM 2 reed with extra, duplicate shifts
to trick accordion buying parents (back in the day)

so a couple hundred max if a 2 reed to maybe $500 or so if a 3 reed

if you read back on student accordions here in old threads you can
learn how to distinguish when trying them in person, and other
things to look for, and how to test them out

good luck, it is a pretty shiny thing.. i gave one like this to a
student some years ago.. it had nice sounding reeds.. don't recall
the brand name..

If I had to guess, going close in, it's the LM 2 reed, with extra buttons to make it seem like a 3 voice, as you describe. It seems to have shot past $300, so this probably isn't the one for me, since I can't put my hands on it. Also it just doesn't seem "tall enough" to be a three voice?

I does say "Custom Made In Italy" on the back.

I've also run across now a "G Romagnoli - Castelfidardo" with a real 1950s look to it, in brown. It looks big enough to be a 3/4 voice instrument with 4 "spoon" stops for voices? It could be associated with a famous accordion shop in Chicago? If it's cheap enough, well, could be worth a look.

Unless anyone out there knows of something like a B/C/C+ Scottish style button box with 36 or more basses lying around!

Thanks for the reply and the help!

 

[Xiane]

Interesting sidelight on the name:
"Carbonari, (Italian dialect: “Charcoal Burners”) in early 19th-century Italy, members of a secret society (the Carboneria) advocating liberal and patriotic ideas."

Perhaps appealing to freedom-loving Italian Americans when they made it in the 1950s? I get the sense this might have been someone's "store brand" as every one I've seen since I started looking is in Minnesota?

 

[Xiane]

Well, now this beauty has appeared, and I'll hazard that it really is 3 voices. I'd welcome any thoughts on what to pay for another pig in a poke I won't get to see? It's a Scandalli!

 

[dak]

Dumb question: if you are playing an Irish button box, would a chromatic button accordion be an option for you? Same bass as a piano accordion. There probably are also options closer to the Irish box, but I am not versed in them.

 

[Ventura]

and now for a small leap.. can't get Carbonara out of my brain
today.. keeps playing over and over

Io voglio viaggiare in Italia
In paese dei limoni
Brigade Rosse e la Mafia
Cacciano sulla Strada del Sol
Distruzione della Lira
Gelati Motta con brio

Tecco mecco con ragazza
Ecco la mamma de amore mio

Sentimento grandioso per Italia
Baciato da sole calda
Borsellino e vuoto totale
Perciò mangio sempre solo

Spaghetti carbonara e una Coca Cola
Carbonara e una Coca Cola

Carbonara e una Coca Cola
Carbonara e una Coca Cola

 

[Xiane]

Dumb question: if you are playing an Irish button box, would a chromatic button accordion be an option for you? Same bass as a piano accordion. There probably are also options closer to the Irish box, but I am not versed in them.

Not a dumb question at all! This is the very issue I'm thinking about. I play B/C diatonic. I don't really want to go to PA to get more basses, BUT there are diatonic button accordions that have more basses. Often not as many as full sized PAs, but more than 8.

There's a kind of accordion popular in Scotland and the British Isles that's b/c/c+ with a large bass setup. The legendary Hohner "Shand Morino" is a three row diatonic B/C/C+ with a full bass setup, and with those keys you can make nearly any chord, should you want to on the right, plus the basses on the left. So, such things DO exist, but they're not likely to be hanging around a thrift shop for you to try them out, and then upgrade or repair, like PAs are now.

Also a lot of Hohner "Club" models will fit the bill, though usually with different keys on the right. You can get them retuned, and "declub" them, so they're typical Irish fingering, or keep the gleichtons.

 

[Random Johnny]

Stay on buttons, go chromatic B-system

 

[boxplayer4000]

You could stay diatonic treble and have a Stradella bass a well. All 12 basses and all major/minor chords are here, monotonic:

 

[SteveBox]

If you want to stick with a small diatonic B/C for Irish music, but desire more basses, then consider getting a B/C with the 24-bass Darwin open-chord system. It has 12 bass notes and 12 open chords, is fully chromatic and unisonoric, and can be used on either diatonic or small chromatic button accordions. Only problem is, you'll probably have to get one custom built for you, and it won't be cheap. There are a few small box builders offering these, and Castagnari has them as well (Ja, Mas, and Handry 24 models). Two builders that I am familiar with are Marc Serafini https://www.diatoz.fr/ and Atelier Loffet https://www.atelierloffet.com/ The Darwin boxes you see on their websites are three row melodeon-sized boxes where the right hand can be configured to anything you want (such as a B/C/C#). Maybe they could also build one as a two row.

I have a Loffet configured as a three row chromatic, which I use to play Irish music. CC_PDX on this forum has a similar one from Serafini, also configured as a chromatic. He lives in Portland, so perhaps you can look him up and see what the Darwin system is like. There have been discussions about this on the forum. Do a search on "Darwin" to find the posts.

 

[Xiane]

You could stay diatonic treble and have a Stradella bass a well. All 12 basses and all major/minor chords are here, monotonic:

I'm basically getting a version of this very thing restored for me. I'd like to do basses, but also counter points on the treble on songs with a group I play with and the Irish B/C with eight basses isn't so great.

For me it will be an old (1930s) Hohner L'Organola, which for those with interest was the accordion Jimmy Shand played before the famous Shand Morino.

 

[Xiane]

If you want to stick with a small diatonic B/C for Irish music, but desire more basses, then consider getting a B/C with the 24-bass Darwin open-chord system. It has 12 bass notes and 12 open chords, is fully chromatic and unisonoric, and can be used on either diatonic or small chromatic button accordions. Only problem is, you'll probably have to get one custom built for you, and it won't be cheap. There are a few small box builders offering these, and Castagnari has them as well (Ja, Mas, and Handry 24 models). Two builders that I am familiar with are Marc Serafini https://www.diatoz.fr/ and Atelier Loffet https://www.atelierloffet.com/ The Darwin boxes you see on their websites are three row melodeon-sized boxes where the right hand can be configured to anything you want (such as a B/C/C#). Maybe they could also build one as a two row.

I have a Loffet configured as a three row chromatic, which I use to play Irish music. CC_PDX on this forum has a similar one from Serafini, also configured as a chromatic. He lives in Portland, so perhaps you can look him up and see what the Darwin system is like. There have been discussions about this on the forum. Do a search on "Darwin" to find the posts.

Thanks!

I hadn't realized that anyone was doing the three row diatonic with the Darwin system. I actually saw CC_PDX play a bit the other night but it was a small CBA, and I learned a little about the Darwin set up, but I hadn't thought about the diatonic possibilities. Well, next one!