S
squeezeboy
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Just curious, that's what I use and love it!
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barkis
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"B-griff"
It is a bit funny that English uses a German word for this. An oddity is that the tone B is called H in German. So, H-Griff would make more sence at least from a German perspective. And why call it after the tone B anyways? Wouldn't D-griff make as much sence?
I'm a C-griff infidel by the way
It is a bit funny that English uses a German word for this. An oddity is that the tone B is called H in German. So, H-Griff would make more sence at least from a German perspective. And why call it after the tone B anyways? Wouldn't D-griff make as much sence?
I'm a C-griff infidel by the way
S
squeezeboy
Guest
For the Bayan layout we often have B as the first natural note of the first row. But we also find D on smaller keyboards, it could as well be the D-system!barkis said:
But since its also called the Bayan layout, its possible that this is where the B comes from...
J
Jim the box
Guest
I use my B-griff for Irish music sessions..........
………or at least until my wife put it in storage by accident while we are in a caravan whilst building our house.........
………only another 8 months :hb
………or at least until my wife put it in storage by accident while we are in a caravan whilst building our house.........
………only another 8 months :hb
D
Deleted member 48
Guest
I play the C-Griff, but B-Griff and C-Griff are both equally suited for the chromatic button accordion.
For what I have heard from accordion teachers, both systems b-system and c-system can do it all.
With b-system the angle of the wrist of the right hand is different from c-system. In C-Griff the arm and wrist are more in a straighter line.
I have no proof or historic documents about this, but I think the B-Griff was patented first in the area of Vienna.
Some name Franz Walter of Vienna, around 1850.
The oldest surviving example of a B-Griff Schrammelharmonika is from 1873 or 1874, built by Walter. This is written in the thesis by Andreas Teufel (Magisterarbeit Die Schrammelharmonika, a 26 Megabyte document free for download). There are 3 little photos of this 1873 instrument in this thesis. It is said to be owned by an accordionist from Graz in Austria.
Another example is in the Brussels MIM Museum, the museum of musical instruments, dated 1888 , built by Karl Budowitz. This photo can be found on the MIM website. I have seen it a week ago, when I went to the MIM in Brussels for the 200 years Adolphe Sax and saxophone exhibition.
It is possible another maker changed the 1st and 3rd row reed blocks, to avoid patents for the B-Griff, and so created a C-Griff. Some name Mirwald in 1891 in Bavaria, Germany (Alfred Mirek). Others name Paolo Soprani, Mattia Berardi, Piatanesi, who patented in 1897 a C-Griff with standard basses.
Some sources say the B-Griff was developed in Vienna around 1860-1870-1880, others already in 1850 by Franz Walter. Still unclear.
I think the 2 different systems C-system and B-system developed to avoid trouble with patents. But this is only a wild guess.
For what I have heard from accordion teachers, both systems b-system and c-system can do it all.
With b-system the angle of the wrist of the right hand is different from c-system. In C-Griff the arm and wrist are more in a straighter line.
I have no proof or historic documents about this, but I think the B-Griff was patented first in the area of Vienna.
Some name Franz Walter of Vienna, around 1850.
The oldest surviving example of a B-Griff Schrammelharmonika is from 1873 or 1874, built by Walter. This is written in the thesis by Andreas Teufel (Magisterarbeit Die Schrammelharmonika, a 26 Megabyte document free for download). There are 3 little photos of this 1873 instrument in this thesis. It is said to be owned by an accordionist from Graz in Austria.
Another example is in the Brussels MIM Museum, the museum of musical instruments, dated 1888 , built by Karl Budowitz. This photo can be found on the MIM website. I have seen it a week ago, when I went to the MIM in Brussels for the 200 years Adolphe Sax and saxophone exhibition.
It is possible another maker changed the 1st and 3rd row reed blocks, to avoid patents for the B-Griff, and so created a C-Griff. Some name Mirwald in 1891 in Bavaria, Germany (Alfred Mirek). Others name Paolo Soprani, Mattia Berardi, Piatanesi, who patented in 1897 a C-Griff with standard basses.
Some sources say the B-Griff was developed in Vienna around 1860-1870-1880, others already in 1850 by Franz Walter. Still unclear.
I think the 2 different systems C-system and B-system developed to avoid trouble with patents. But this is only a wild guess.
S
squeezeboy
Guest
Roland with its V-accordions also offers a D-system layout, which has the C in the outer row.
D
Deleted member 48
Guest
In analysing differences between B-system, C-system, D-system, or other possibilities like B flat-system, etc. it's not really important what music note, B or C or D or ..., is in the first row and what note is in the 2nd or 3rd row.
The angle of the right hand and right hand wrist in comparison to the CBA keyboard position and with the right arm is ergonomically important.
If one plays the chromatic scale from the lowest note to the highest note in the right hand side, it's the position and angle of the right hand that makes some differences.
To make a balanced choice, each individual can try to play chords, scales, parallell intervals scales, etc to see and feel what both systems are like, and how comfortable they are for the hands and arms.
Personally I think CBA systems allow the right arm and right hand to be in a more relaxed position with lesser muscle tension in right shoulder and right arm than piano accordion.
Piano accordion makes you want to hold the right arm a little bit higher if you want to include frequent right thumb use in your accordion play.
The angle of the right hand and right hand wrist in comparison to the CBA keyboard position and with the right arm is ergonomically important.
If one plays the chromatic scale from the lowest note to the highest note in the right hand side, it's the position and angle of the right hand that makes some differences.
To make a balanced choice, each individual can try to play chords, scales, parallell intervals scales, etc to see and feel what both systems are like, and how comfortable they are for the hands and arms.
Personally I think CBA systems allow the right arm and right hand to be in a more relaxed position with lesser muscle tension in right shoulder and right arm than piano accordion.
Piano accordion makes you want to hold the right arm a little bit higher if you want to include frequent right thumb use in your accordion play.
S
squeezeboy
Guest
PAs are good for the simplicity of the keyboard, but the CBA isomorphic feature (all patterns movable, tonic in any row) is simply brilliant.Stephen said:
D
Deleted member 48
Guest
I agree, the CBA isomorphic layout is so brilliant because it is so easy.
The half note pattern repeated in a identical pattern over the entire keyboard, allowing all patterns to move without having to change fingerings.
The chromatic scale is 100% equally divided in identical intervals.
The diatonic scale of the piano accordion, the white keys, is an irregular pattern of whole tones and half tones, and forcing the player to learn all sorts of different fingering patterns by heart.
CBA is accordion heaven for bon vivants
The half note pattern repeated in a identical pattern over the entire keyboard, allowing all patterns to move without having to change fingerings.
The chromatic scale is 100% equally divided in identical intervals.
The diatonic scale of the piano accordion, the white keys, is an irregular pattern of whole tones and half tones, and forcing the player to learn all sorts of different fingering patterns by heart.
CBA is accordion heaven for bon vivants
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