Forced air and humidifiers - winter topic

[EuroFolker]

Hello all,

I keep my acoustic guitars, and now the accordions, in the finished basement where I play them.

The central heating (forced air) has no humidifier built in, so I use a portable humidifier to keep the relative air humidity between 45-50%.

Mostly because of the guitars being on display, and dry air obviously not ideal for the wood.

Now with the addition of the accordions, any words of wisdom?

How much humidity in the air is too much for an acoustic accordion when playing it? Is the above mentioned range safe?

Thank you!

 

[JerryPH]

Our home is overall humidity controlled. 45-50% is a lot, even for home comfort. We keep it at around 35% winter or summer, my basement is even less effected and so I am pretty sure it is always somewhere between 30-35% at most. 50-55%... strong possibility for mold to happen and rust to form on reeds in long term storage situations.

 

[EuroFolker]

Our home is overall humidity controlled. 45-50% is a lot, even for home comfort. We keep it at around 35% winter or summer, my basement is even less effected and so I am pretty sure it is always somewhere between 30-35% at most. 50-55%... strong possibility for mold to happen and rust to form on reeds in long term storage situations.

30-35 is exactly what I get with the forced air on, and without the humidifier. 45-55 is what is recommended for acoustic guitars.

Just wondering if it's safe to play when a humidifier is used, and the relative moisture is around 47 (that is what it seems to stay at).

 

[Tom]

30-35 is exactly what I get with the forced air on, and without the humidifier. 45-55 is what is recommended for acoustic guitars.

Just wondering if it's safe to play when a humidifier is used, and the relative moisture is around 47 (that is what it seems to stay at).

I think you’re fine playing with a humidifier going, and with humidity at 47. My humidity varies from 35 to 75 and it hasn’t seemed to adversely affect any of my instruments. I have heard that what is bad is sudden large shifts in humidity.

 

[JerryPH]

Just wondering if it's safe to play when a humidifier is used, and the relative moisture is around 47 (that is what it seems to stay at).

An accordion is made from wood, metal and paper and leather. 45-55% is too high for an accordion, and 30-35% will not hurt a guitar. You know you are in BIG trouble if you are seeing condensation on the windows in the winter, that means you are over 45% and what you see on the windows is what is happening (to a smaller extent) inside your accordion. Use that as a sanity check.

 

[Rosie C]

50-55%... strong possibility for mold to happen and rust to form on reeds in long term storage situations.

Being in Wales where mostly it's raining... I have a portable dehumidifier in my practice room. I have it set to 55%, much lower and it would run continuously and fill its bucket. Hmmm...

 

[Tom]

An accordion is made from wood, metal and paper and leather. 45-55% is too high for an accordion, and 30-35% will not hurt a guitar. You know you are in BIG trouble if you are seeing condensation on the windows in the winter, that means you are over 45% and what you see on the windows is what is happening (to a smaller extent) inside your accordion. Use that as a sanity check.

I’m in big trouble. Where I live I could buy a new Gola every other year for the amount it would cost to bring my house down to 55. I have a giant dehumidifier in the basement which runs pretty continuously in the summer when the outside humidity is almost always over 85, and it’s too cold to run an air conditioner. In the winter I heat with wood so it gets down to the 30 range. Good thing I don’t have a Gola!

 

[EuroFolker]

Perhaps I'll just use a couple of small humidifiers in the vicinity of the guitars... Moisture is probably trouble for an accordion, even a V-Accordion (but so is the dry air in case of static discharge?) - oh, this is the beginning of OCD! haha

 

[JerryPH]

Well, I am not completely sure about static (besides, the V-accordion is plastic in all the places we touch it to play and in the 7 years I have my 8X, I've never experienced static while handling my 8X). Also, just to add, I don't experience any static touching my metal shelves, mixer and cables. Our home also never has condensation on the windows, but I think that is more a function of the double-pane energy effective windows, and last year we had many-20C (-4 Fahrenheit), or colder days.

Not sure what more to say.

 

[Tom]

Well, I am not completely sure about static (besides, the V-accordion is plastic in all the places we touch it to play and in the 7 years I have my 8X, I've never experienced static while handling my 8X). Also, just to add, I don't experience any static touching my metal shelves, mixer and cables. Our home also never has condensation on the windows, but I think that is more a function of the double-pane energy effective windows, and last year we had many-20C (-4 Fahrenheit), or colder days.

Not sure what more to say.

From what I remember you have a pretty sophisticated air handling system.

 

[EuroFolker]

Well, I am not completely sure about static (besides, the V-accordion is plastic in all the places we touch it to play and in the 7 years I have my 8X, I've never experienced static while handling my 8X). Also, just to add, I don't experience any static touching my metal shelves, mixer and cables. Our home also never has condensation on the windows, but I think that is more a function of the double-pane energy effective windows, and last year we had many-20C (-4 Fahrenheit), or colder days.

Not sure what more to say.

Nothing, how do you top such living situation humblebrag? Just kidding, haha, don't take it the wrong way

Not long ago I saw an ad for a once nice acoustic guitar on the FB marketplace and the person said something like "the wood has some cracks which is perfectly normal in our dry climate" - I was SO tempted to reply to the ad with my assessment of her guitar maintenance skills but I let it go

 

[Dingo40]

We're rather fortunate in that our annual monthly mean humidity is 47% and temperature 21.5 degrees C.
Of course, the range is considerable:
Humidity <10% to 99% and temperatures -3 degrees C to +45.
I can generally tell when we're experiencing a bout of low humidity as the bellows pins on some of my accordions tend to fall out!
On coldish (<12 degrees) mornings, the condensation of your breath on metal parts of the accordion can be a (relatively minor) nuisance.

 

[Dingo40]

I've never experienced static while handling my 8X). Also, just to add, I don't experience any static touching my metal shelves,

Here, when the air is dry, we experience quite considerable static electricity shocks with sparks 2 to +3 inches long, when getting out of cars (especially when wearing woollen or acrylic clothing).
Although the current is minuscule, shockingly (), this equates to a voltage of 150,000 to 220,000 volts!
That can give you quite a jolt: a real "wake up" if you're caught off guard!
The charge can take some time to dissipate, so we've learnt to take avoidance measures.

 

[Ffingers]

Here, when the air is dry, we experience quite considerable static electricity shocks with sparks 2 to +3 inches long, when getting out of cars (especially when wearing woollen or acrylic clothing).
Although the current is minuscule, shockingly (), this equates to a voltage of 150,000 to 220,000 volts!
That can give you quite a jolt: a real "wake up" if you're caught off guard!
The charge can take some time to dissipate, so we've learnt to take avoidance measures.

Yea, verily.

The fun to be had in a room full of well earthed radar consoles, low humidity air conditioning and a newly installed synthetic carpet

(During periods of low aviation activity, of course )

 

[EuroFolker]

Yea, verily.

The fun to be had in a room full of well earthed radar consoles, low humidity air conditioning and a newly installed synthetic carpet

(During periods of low aviation activity, of course )

ATC?

 

[Ffingers]

Yup!
But very many decades ago, when the 'intelligence' was not artificial and the low humidity was essential in order to absorb the sweat created by over stressed brains

 

[EuroFolker]

Yup!
But very many decades ago, when the 'intelligence' was not artificial and the low humidity was essential in order to absorb the sweat created by over stressed brains

I must be the stressor to some of your colleagues, I am on the other side of the mike

 

[henry d]

The ideal range for storing most goods (leather, cardboard, wood) is 40% give or take five percent.

More humidity and things do indeed mold and decay. Too dry and things get brittle, crack, and crumble.

Moisture on the inside of windows in cold weather means that the temperature of the glass is below the dew point of the air in the house/unit. Relative humidity is how much water the air has as opposed to how much it can hold at a given temperature. The dew point is the temperature at which the relative humidity of the air reaches 100% and the water comes out of the air.

It is quite possible to have a 40% relative humidity in the bulk of the room and still have condensation on the windows if they are cold enough. Taking an accordion outside to play and then coming back in when it's cold enough that your glasses fog up when you come inside is a REALLY bad idea. Feel free to wipe off the outside; all those metal reeds- and the associated leather valves- will be quite wet. And except when being played there's not a whole lot of ventilation in there... Just so, placing your accordion up against a poorly insulated outside wall (or a window pane) where it will be significantly colder than the ambient temperature in the room is asking for it.

I spent several years in charge of several humidity controlled warehouses full of materiel of various types in long term storage so I sort of had this all hammered into my exceedingly hard head.

 

[Tom]

The ideal range for storing most goods (leather, cardboard, wood) is 40% give or take five percent.

More humidity and things do indeed mold and decay. Too dry and things get brittle, crack, and crumble.

Moisture on the inside of windows in cold weather means that the temperature of the glass is below the dew point of the air in the house/unit. Relative humidity is how much water the air has as opposed to how much it can hold at a given temperature. The dew point is the temperature at which the relative humidity of the air reaches 100% and the water comes out of the air.

It is quite possible to have a 40% relative humidity in the bulk of the room and still have condensation on the windows if they are cold enough. Taking an accordion outside to play and then coming back in when it's cold enough that your glasses fog up when you come inside is a REALLY bad idea. Feel free to wipe off the outside; all those metal reeds- and the associater leather valves- will be quite wet. Just so, placing your accordion up against a poorly insulated outside wall (or a window pane) where it will be significantly colder than the ambient temperature in the room is asking for it.

I spent several years in charge of several humidity controlled warehouses full of materiel of various types in long term storage so I sort of had this all hammered into my exceedingly hard head.

Good advice, thanks Henry!

 

[Ffingers]

EuroFolker, your contribution to the Chronic PTSD of myself and my peers engendered by recalcitrant airplane pilots is duly noted