Fixing stuck bass button?

[whiiskeyjack]

Hi! I really love the accordion, and I’ve always wanted to learn, I already play a couple of instruments so I thought I’d get one secondhand to see if it’s something I actually enjoy! However, the one I ended up with has a stuck bass note somewhere - the button itself isn’t stuck, but rather the mechanism on the inside is jammed somewhere. It actually took me an embarrassingly long time to realize that accordions don’t actually just make noise all the time (like bagpipes). Unfortunately, there’s no one near me that fixes accordions, so it looks like I’m going to learn to fix this thing before I learn to play it. So I’m wondering if there’s any good resources for taking apart that section of the instrument? Or if you have tips like anything to avoid, any important tools, or a super quick fix (not likely I’m sure, but I can dream!), anything helps! Thanks!

 

[Dingo40]

Welcome WJ!
The problem you describe is quite common: there are a couple of common causes and there's several threads devoted to curing the condition.
I'm sure some of our more experienced members will come on line and share their insights with you.
Here's a link to just one such thread to get you started!

Stuck bass reed

Hi. I was given an old "Goldwater Special" 120 bass by a friend last year. I am a beginner player. Lately, one of the bass notes (f) sounds at random times. Just the higher f reed and once it gets stuck it will continue to sound on all bellows movements, and intensities. No buttons are...

www.accordionists.info

Another:

Stradella button stuck down...

I was practicing today on my Hohner Concerto when the C fundamental button on the stradella became stuck. The button itself can wobble within the hole, and when I play the reed doesn't sound. When I play the C on the contra row the note sounds as expected. All very mysterious. I'm thinking...

www.accordionists.info

 

[debra]

Hi! I really love the accordion, and I’ve always wanted to learn, I already play a couple of instruments so I thought I’d get one secondhand to see if it’s something I actually enjoy! However, the one I ended up with has a stuck bass note somewhere - the button itself isn’t stuck, but rather the mechanism on the inside is jammed somewhere. It actually took me an embarrassingly long time to realize that accordions don’t actually just make noise all the time (like bagpipes). Unfortunately, there’s no one near me that fixes accordions, so it looks like I’m going to learn to fix this thing before I learn to play it. So I’m wondering if there’s any good resources for taking apart that section of the instrument? Or if you have tips like anything to avoid, any important tools, or a super quick fix (not likely I’m sure, but I can dream!), anything helps! Thanks!

The only advice regarding "taking apart that section of the instrument" is DON'T. What you should do is open up the bass compartment by removing the plate under the bass belt (and undo the bass belt first). Typically there are 4 screws in or around the feet to undo, and sometimes one tiny screw in the middle of the side near the buttons.
Then you should check (use a torch/flashlight) whether all the levers are being held up by a small (spring-loaded) force. I expect that you will find one lever that is hanging or stuck down. That lever should have been held up by the corresponding piston. The pistons have stubs/pins on the side that keep the levers up. The piston must have "jumped over" one lever somewhere. You should find this "jumped pin" and put move the lever back over the pin. In 99% of the cases this fix can be done without disassembling anything (except for that back plate).

 

[JKJ]

… Unfortunately, there’s no one near me that fixes accordions, so it looks like I’m going to learn to fix this thing before I learn to play it. So I’m wondering if there’s any good resources for taking apart that section of the instrument? Or if you have tips like anything to avoid, any important tools, or a super quick fix (not likely I’m sure, but I can dream!), anything helps! Thanks!

Hey whiiskeyjack, about taking the bass machine apart to work on it, an additional warning from the accordionrevival.com website:

“The important thing is to recognize and remember the proper order, or at least be sure you can figure it out logically, because there are about 479 million possible ways to put them back (the number of possible 12-permutations of 12 = 12! = approximately 479 million). If you put them back in random order, the odds are about 479 million to 1 against you getting the right order on the first try. If you try 1 permutation every 3 minutes, working 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks per year, you will try 40,000 permutations per year and it will take you 9,475 years (over 100 lifetimes) to try all the possible permutations. So before you take the pipes out, make sure you understand how they must go back in.”

This is from the section “DISASSEMBLING A BASS MACHINE”,

HOW TO REPAIR ACCORDIONS 2

Check out http://accordionrevival.com!

accordionrevival.com

The entire web site is worth studying, IMO, for those interested in working on the instrument. As a beginner with my first accordion I read everything I can find. I was also fortunate to find a repair person who loves to show and teach and explained every detail while doing some minor adjustments and repairs.

I did have a sometimes-sticking stradella bass button but fortunately my old/new-to-me Hohner has a bass machine built into two easily removable frames that come out with the buttons attached after loosening a couple of screws. I’m brand new to accordions but I understand this is not common. Fixing that button took less than 15 minutes.

I would definitely follow the advice given and make a careful examination and analysis before touching anything inside.

JKJ

 

[whiiskeyjack]

The only advice regarding "taking apart that section of the instrument" is DON'T. What you should do is open up the bass compartment by removing the plate under the bass belt (and undo the bass belt first). Typically there are 4 screws in or around the feet to undo, and sometimes one tiny screw in the middle of the side near the buttons.
Then you should check (use a torch/flashlight) whether all the levers are being held up by a small (spring-loaded) force. I expect that you will find one lever that is hanging or stuck down. That lever should have been held up by the corresponding piston. The pistons have stubs/pins on the side that keep the levers up. The piston must have "jumped over" one lever somewhere. You should find this "jumped pin" and put move the lever back over the pin. In 99% of the cases this fix can be done without disassembling anything (except for that back plate).

Thank you! I took out the bass plate, and there were a couple things that I had to bend a little to getting them moving properly, and I ended up removing the block of all the levers to get behind them, and unfortunately I think what the problem is is a few of the felt/foam pads are super old and dried out, and they fell off and basically have disintegrated :/ so now I’m going to figure out what how to replace those! I’m not sure what these parts are called so here’s some photos of the problem

 

[debra]

Thank you! I took out the bass plate, and there were a couple things that I had to bend a little to getting them moving properly, and I ended up removing the block of all the levers to get behind them, and unfortunately I think what the problem is is a few of the felt/foam pads are super old and dried out, and they fell off and basically have disintegrated :/ so now I’m going to figure out what how to replace those! I’m not sure what these parts are called so here’s some photos of the problem

The stuff you need to replace the pallets is felt+leather that has been glued together.
Here is an example:

https://carinidena.it/MS5ECOMMERCE60/jsp/eco_cc_home_bs_portlet.jsp?p=dettarti&codarti=386150402

You need to get it in the right thickness that corresponds to what it was before it disintegrated.
As for the buttons that still don't move smoothly enough, accumulated dust may hamper the movement of the pistons and catorcetti (levers). A good dose of compressed air will dislodge the dust and dirt (after which you can vacuum it so it doesn't still sit inside the accordion). I just had to do this in an expensive Bugari convertor accordion with buttons that wouldn't release properly in the melody bass. In any case, do not lubricate the mechanism as any type of oil will attract dust and in make the problem worse in the end.

 

[Ventura]

it looks like a scandalli bass mechanism to me.. did the entire
button and pin section come out in one piece after you
popped the two clips that hold it in ?

 

[whiiskeyjack]

The stuff you need to replace the pallets is felt+leather that has been glued together.
Here is an example:

https://carinidena.it/MS5ECOMMERCE60/jsp/eco_cc_home_bs_portlet.jsp?p=dettarti&codarti=386150402

You need to get it in the right thickness that corresponds to what it was before it disintegrated.
As for the buttons that still don't move smoothly enough, accumulated dust may hamper the movement of the pistons and catorcetti (levers). A good dose of compressed air will dislodge the dust and dirt (after which you can vacuum it so it doesn't still sit inside the accordion). I just had to do this in an expensive Bugari convertor accordion with buttons that wouldn't release properly in the melody bass. In any case, do not lubricate the mechanism as any type of oil will attract dust and in make the problem worse in the end.

Ok that’s awesome thank you! Would I just cut it into strips and glue it on? Is there something specific I should use to glue it?

 

[whiiskeyjack]

it looks like a scandalli bass mechanism to me.. did the entire
button and pin section come out in one piece after you
popped the two clips that hold it in ?

Yeah it did! I really like that it was that easy to take out, I’m so used to stuff being really hard to fix so you just buy a new one haha

 

[Ventura]

Hey WJ

well now that we have established the type, there are a few things
you could research on here about other issues those models and
mechanisms have.. search scandalli bass

for the pads, it is likely that if a few of the pad backings have failed, they
are ALL about to fail, so putting new pads on the Bass is obvious, but you
may need to put another 41 pads on the front side of it too

cleaning the old stuff off the aluminum pad holder flat surface is very important too

the bass mech itself has a bunch of little rubbery looking things that keep
the pins from falling "out" when inverted, often they too get brittle with age
and crack off

the type of accordion and the reeds are usually pretty good and worth the
do-it-yourselfing effort...

 

[whiiskeyjack]

Hey WJ

well now that we have established the type, there are a few things
you could research on here about other issues those models and
mechanisms have.. search scandalli bass

for the pads, it is likely that if a few of the pad backings have failed, they
are ALL about to fail, so putting new pads on the Bass is obvious, but you
may need to put another 41 pads on the front side of it too

cleaning the old stuff off the aluminum pad holder flat surface is very important too

the bass mech itself has a bunch of little rubbery looking things that keep
the pins from falling "out" when inverted, often they too get brittle with age
and crack off

the type of accordion and the reeds are usually pretty good and worth the
do-it-yourselfing effort...

Ok that’s awesome thank you! It’s good to know that this is actually worth the effort! I would still probably do it anyways just to learn, but it’s nice to know I’m not wasting my time

 

[dak]

Thank you! I took out the bass plate, and there were a couple things that I had to bend a little to getting them moving properly, and I ended up removing the block of all the levers to get behind them, and unfortunately I think what the problem is is a few of the felt/foam pads are super old and dried out, and they fell off and basically have disintegrated :/ so now I’m going to figure out what how to replace those! I’m not sure what these parts are called so here’s some photos of the problem

There are two kinds of pallet: the traditional is leather on a felt cushion. Those materials tend to stay alive rather well (the leather might want a bit of roughening to become airtight again). Problems may be with the connecting glue. There are also foam experiments that haven't turned out to hold up to eternity. The major "traditional" cause for pallet pad disintegration is the felt. Not because the felt turns bad but because the felt is tasty. To moth larvae. If that is the case, you obviously want to get rid of the entire infestation. The best prevention is constant use.

 

[Ikesaccordions]

"To moth larvae. If that is the case, you obviously want to get rid of the entire infestation. The best prevention is constant use."

It's not moths. It's actually carpet beetle larvae. If there is low humidity there is nothing for the larvae to "drink". Usually when you see the damage, the larvae have matured and are long gone.
You have to guess the thickness of the old pads, but I guess they were 1/16 or 1/8 " Put a piece of material under the valves and check if there is any play when you put the mechanism back.
Get an old felt coat and use a rectangular piece of wood the same size as the valve. Cut around it with maybe an xacto knife holding the knife vertical. You might need 2 or 3 layers of felt cloth.
Buy genuine chamois, "sheepskin" for polishing cars. Soak it in spring water to dissolve any salt and dry it. Then apply a light coat of white glue or better yet, hide glue -- not to the felt, but to the rough side of the thin suede. Once your pads are made, put just a little thin glue on them and glue the felt pad to the valve.
BTW the foam rubber manufacturers were using proved to be unstable and beetles would not eat it. Instead after some decades it started to disintegrate. If you can get the valves off easily, you should sand off the residue of foam, but you could slide a piece of sandpaper under them with the grit up.

 

[Dingo40]

Get an old felt coat and use a rectangular piece of wood the same size as the valve. Cut around it with maybe an xacto knife holding the knife vertical. You might need 2 or 3 layers
Buy genuine chamois, "sheepskin" for polishing cars. Soak it in spring waterto dissolve any salt and dry it. Then apply a light coat of white glue or better yet, hide glue -- not to the felt. but to the rough side of the thin suede. Once your pads are made, put just a little thin glue on them and glue the felt pad to the valve.

Why all this "iffy" DIY scrounging?
Aren't all these things readily available, new, from accordion spares dealers?
Finding used felt coats around here would be harder than finding a wholesaler in felt!

 

[dak]

Why all this "iffy" DIY scrounging?
Aren't all these things available new from accordion spares dealers?

An ensemble colleague with an organ builder education swore that his own pallet covers made from lamb leather and comparatively thick felt made for the smoothest articulation. But yes, the materials are also available from accordion spares dealers in standard quality.

 

[Ikesaccordions]

Maybe available but this DIY method helps to determine the right thickness. I haven't seen what they are offering.

 

[Ikesaccordions]

Why all this "iffy" DIY scrounging?
Aren't all these things readily available, new, from accordion spares dealers?
Finding used felt coats around here would be harder than finding a wholesaler in felt.!

I wish finding a felt dealer in the U.S. were that easy. Thrift stores have felt coats. Other felts for fixing pianos can be ordered but are of varying quality and expensive. How are you feeling today?

 

[Dingo40]

We have felt dealers but few coats .
Regional differences. I guess?

 

[Tom]

We have felt dealers but few coats .
Regional differences. I guess?

Up here, all our coats are down. Just sayin’

 

[dak]

Up here, all our coats are down. Just sayin’

Down here, all our coats are up.