Does sheet music work for DBA?

[RYLUNDO]

I know this question sounds extremely dumb but I haven't found any answers online. I recently started note identification to learn how to read sheet music and when I tried to transfer what I learned to playing a simple song from a literal kindergarten-level piano sheet music book I couldn't replicate the song at all. I could have just messed up horribly because I am very new to accordion in general. I was given a chart showing each note that my accordion plays on the push-and-pull, my accordion is in the key of BbEbAb, I will try to attach the chart I was given. There are different note layouts for accordions of the same key so I was wondering if maybe I was just using the wrong notes. I don't really know, this whole process has been extremely confusing and frustrating to me.

Another method I heard about was Griffschrift. It seems really interesting and I would like to understand and try it but I have not really understood much of what I have read about it online. I believe the main website was called Volksmusikschule. One of the questions I had about Griffschrift was whether or not standing notes or gleichtons are used in it. My accordion does not have any. I would appreciate any sources that may help me understand Griffscrift. I know there is a lot in German but I can't find any videos covering Griffschrift in English. I hope these questions made sense.

 

[tcabot]

Yes, sheet music applies to any instrument and it's good to learn it. What was your problem with playing it on your box?
I assume the tune was in Bb, Eb or Ab key, because that's what your box plays in. You can't play in C (r D or G or, possibly, F).

Arranging piano sheet for accordion on-the-fly can be very hard for a beginner. Playing off a melodeon or accordion arrangement is advised.

Griffshift is a form of tablature. It has its pros and cons. Specifically for DBA, the advantage is that you get the music presented for your box regardless of the key it was written in. If you're reading off the sheet, you need to learn to read differently for your C/F, G/C, Bb/Eb, D/G boxes. The tab is always just the tab, so you pick the box in the right key, or pick a box in a different key and automatically transpose the tune.
This is OK if you ever intend to only play steirische music on steirische boxes, but as soon as you get yourself a Club, or some French layout, the griffschift goes out of the window. Similarly, you might find yourself looking at a French piece in one (of the multiple!) French melodeon tablature systems, and you won't be able to play it. At least sheet music is always sheet music.

A bit surprised that you don't have a gleischton - I thought they were standard on steirische harmonikas. There's gleischton, no gleischton, Dutch reversal and full row Dutch. Pick the one you like. Tabs will have to be different for all these variations, obviously, so another reason to learn sheet music.

PS There's also some Godawful "ABC" music transcription system that completely escapes me - looks like an ill concieved alternative to sheet music notation that doesn't make much sense and seems completely inferior to the "proper" staff, but for some reason some people spend time learning it

PPS, Fwiw, I've never seen any melodeon arrangements written in Bb/Eb. You might want to "pretend" that you've got a C/F or G/C box and play off C/F or G/C sheet.
But Bb/Eb is a very sweet key, there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[Snoopz]

There's also some Godawful "ABC" music transcription system that completely escapes me - looks like an ill concieved alternative to sheet music notation that doesn't make much sense and seems completely inferior to the "proper" staff, but for some reason some people spend time learning it

If you mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABC_notation then it is not at all an alternative to sheet music but rather a way of generating sheet music without having to point and click on tools like MuseScore.

 

[tcabot]

Ah, that makes a bit more sense now.

 

[RYLUNDO]

The accordion I have technically isn't a steirische harmonika, it is made in the Czech republic and this specific brand doesn't typically include gleichtons in the layout.

I assume the tune was in Bb, Eb or Ab key, because that's what your box plays in. You can't play in C (r D or G or, possibly, F).

Does this mean that I would have to find a way to transfer songs into a key that I can play in order to use standard sheet music?

PPS, Fwiw, I've never seen any melodeon arrangements written in Bb/Eb. You might want to "pretend" that you've got a C/F or G/C box and play off C/F or G/C sheet.
But Bb/Eb is a very sweet key, there's nothing wrong with it.

I am most likely just interpreting it incorrectly but it sounds like it contradicts the previous statement.

 

[SteveBox]

Hi Rylundo. If your accordion does not have Gleischtons, they you probably don't want to use Griffschrift. I presume only a minority of people on this forum play diatonics. You might get better help asking your questions over on melodeon.net which specializes in diatonic accordions.

I don't play DBAs, but I think I understand them. If you want to learn from sheet music, my suggestion would be to restrict yourself to using sheet music in the key of C. That is the easiest to read (no sharps or flats). Trying to find/read sheet music in Eb or Bb because your accordion plays in those keys is more confusing than necessary.

Instead, learn to play based on the note numbers of the diatonic scale. There are seven notes per octave, so think of them as note 1 (C on the sheet music), note 2 (D on the sheet music), note 3 (E on the sheet music), ... note 7 (B on the sheet music), then note 1 again (C) an octave higher. Instead of numbers, you can also call these "do, re, me, ...".

Pick one row on your DBA, it does not matter which one. When you see the middle C on the sheet music, play the root/starting note on that row. This will be a push of the bellows typically on the third button, but it could also be the second or fourth button, depending on the design of your instrument. This is critical, you have to know the starting button! If your chart is accurate, it appears you have a second button start. If you are using the Bb row, for example, then the starting note will sound a Bb (you can use a tuner to check it). Then go from there. The next higher note 2 (D on the sheet music) will be a pull on the same button. Note 3 (E) will be a push on the next button, etc.

When you do this, you will not be playing the melody in C (unless you have a DBA with a C row), but it will be the same melody, only transposed to another key. You can then try playing on another row, and it will be the same melody, but transposed to yet another key.

From reading the reviews, this might be a good book to have, but I have not read it. From the introduction, it would seem to follow the same approach that I have suggested.

Loading...

www.amazon.com

What I have suggested is a single row playing technique. On a three row DBA, there are more advanced techniques that play across all three rows, but one thing at a time.

 

[tcabot]

Ok, then it's a Heligonka - I thought those had gleischtons too (in fact, I thought that anything to the east of Germany had gleischtons).
You can take it to a local accordion technician and "get" yourself a gleischton if you really want it.

I would suggest finding a good music theory course/book, or asking a music teacher - it does not have to be instrument-specific, but it will explain the basics for you. Diatonic instruments might be a bit tricky & confusing to understand for somebody who has got no musical background.

You can transpose a piece from any key to any key, but given that you have a Bb-Eb, you'll have to transpose almost everything that's been written for a harmonika. What you can do, is print out a, say, C-F keyboard layout, and just "pretend" that you have a C-F, then play pieces written in keys of C, F and D minor (parallel to F maj).

Steirische Harmonika - Club Harmonika - Tastenbelegungen

www.ziach.de

Harmonika layouts are almost always the same or very similar. I can learn a piece on my C-F in C, and then play the same in the key of Bb on my Bb-Eb box and vice versa, without having to change the fingerings (I'll just change the box).

 

[RYLUNDO]

What you can do, is print out a, say, C-F keyboard layout, and just "pretend" that you have a C-F, then play pieces written in keys of C, F and D minor (parallel to F maj).

I will definitely try this. I was given the choice to have the accordion switched to have gleichtons but chose not to because they are not commonly used in the Midwest where I live. Thank you all for your help! Having no background knowledge of music makes it difficult to learn but I will keep at it.

 

[Xiane]

If you mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABC_notation then it is not at all an alternative to sheet music but rather a way of generating sheet music without having to point and click on tools like MuseScore.

Interestingly, a fair number of players I've read about in the Celtic music world just read ABC notation and play from it. It's simpler, and if you're playing a form that you know how it generally works, like a reel, it makes sense. And you can get like 50 tunes on one sheet of paper.

 

[Xiane]

I will definitely try this. I was given the choice to have the accordion switched to have gleichtons but chose not to because they are not commonly used in the Midwest where I live. Thank you all for your help! Having no background knowledge of music makes it difficult to learn but I will keep at it.

It's a shame that you're not in B/C or C+/D diatonic, then there's a clever online tool that will generate diatonic tableture off ABC notation. But it works because there's more or less a way a note MUST be played in B/C and C+/D two row. When you add a third row, or you have duplicative notes push and pull (in keys with lots of overlap like D/G or G/C) it's not possible to do. Or rather it's pretty hard, and the software will have to make choices and will those choices be reliably good?

What I'm trying to do is is learn using the tabs while also looking at the sheet music (which ABC tools also generate for you) so the sheet music will (in theory) sink in for sight reading, but I can play faster using the tabs right now. This is not an approved method, from The Trans World Melodeon Council or anything, just what I'm doing.

(There are a couple of notes on B/C where one is on the push on one row, and the pull on another, but not many, and the software's creator made the choice to use the inner row whenever that comes up. You don't have to, though, sometimes having that outer row "B" is handy.)

 

[Aaron]

Yes, sheet music applies to any instrument and it's good to learn it. What was your problem with playing it on your box?
I assume the tune was in Bb, Eb or Ab key, because that's what your box plays in. You can't play in C (r D or G or, possibly, F).

Arranging piano sheet for accordion on-the-fly can be very hard for a beginner. Playing off a melodeon or accordion arrangement is advised.

Griffshift is a form of tablature. It has its pros and cons. Specifically for DBA, the advantage is that you get the music presented for your box regardless of the key it was written in. If you're reading off the sheet, you need to learn to read differently for your C/F, G/C, Bb/Eb, D/G boxes. The tab is always just the tab, so you pick the box in the right key, or pick a box in a different key and automatically transpose the tune.
This is OK if you ever intend to only play steirische music on steirische boxes, but as soon as you get yourself a Club, or some French layout, the griffschift goes out of the window. Similarly, you might find yourself looking at a French piece in one (of the multiple!) French melodeon tablature systems, and you won't be able to play it. At least sheet music is always sheet music.

A bit surprised that you don't have a gleischton - I thought they were standard on steirische harmonikas. There's gleischton, no gleischton, Dutch reversal and full row Dutch. Pick the one you like. Tabs will have to be different for all these variations, obviously, so another reason to learn sheet music.

PS There's also some Godawful "ABC" music transcription system that completely escapes me - looks like an ill concieved alternative to sheet music notation that doesn't make much sense and seems completely inferior to the "proper" staff, but for some reason some people spend time learning it

PPS, Fwiw, I've never seen any melodeon arrangements written in Bb/Eb. You might want to "pretend" that you've got a C/F or G/C box and play off C/F or G/C sheet.
But Bb/Eb is a very sweet key, there's nothing wrong with it.

ABC is not "godawful". It has its place. Specifically, it is shorthand music in text form that works well for simpler, mostly diatonic music like Irish Traditional. It really is more of a "code" than a notation system. It shined in the earlier days of the internet when data transfer was slow and the small data size was a big plus. Anybody interested would be advised to learn it as a bit of computer code where text input can be turned into staff notation.

 

[Xiane]

ABC is not "godawful". It has its place. Specifically, it is shorthand music in text form that works well for simpler, mostly diatonic music like Irish Traditional. It really is more of a "code" than a notation system. It shined in the earlier days of the internet when data transfer was slow and the small data size was a big plus. Anybody interested would be advised to learn it as a bit of computer code where text input can be turned into staff notation.

It really is a godsend to diatonic Irish players (well, in certain keys, as I wrote above). As you say, it's also easy to edit, and the tools will transpose, change times, etc. Which means it's easy to share tunes reworked for other instruments.

For something that seems a relic of the early internet, it's remarkably useful.

 

[SteveBox]

As noted, ABC notation is widely used in the folk music world, not so much intended for direct reading, but as an easy way to cut-and-paste melodies into a sheet music typesetter. Folk music websites such as thesession.org and folktunefinder.com and others have thousands of tunes in ABC format. They also display them in standard sheet music, automatically generated from the ABC. However, one often wants to add/change chord names or reformat in some way. It is easy to cut-and-paste the ABC text and import it into a free music typesetter such as Musescore and quickly produce high quality, customized sheet music. (Well, it is easy once you get through the learning curve of how to use the software.)

 

[Xiane]

As noted, ABC notation is widely used in the folk music world, not so much intended for direct reading, but as an easy way to cut-and-paste melodies into a sheet music typesetter. Folk music websites such as thesession.org and folktunefinder.com and others have thousands of tunes in ABC format. They also display them in standard sheet music, automatically generated from the ABC. However, one often wants to add/change chord names or reformat in some way. It is easy to cut-and-paste the ABC text and import it into a free music typesetter such as Musescore and quickly produce high quality, customized sheet music. (Well, it is easy once you get through the learning curve of how to use the software.)

I came across an article that talked about Irish session players reading/playing straight from ABC because you could have ten tunes on a page or more, and glance down to make sure you knew what you were playing if you're doing three tunes at a time, etc, and not have to keep turning pages of sheet music. Obviously wouldn't work for everything, but I can see how it would be useful in that situation, particularly if you're really not going to play in much of anything besides D and G.

 

[SteveBox]

I came across an article that talked about Irish session players reading/playing straight from ABC because you could have ten tunes on a page or more, and glance down to make sure you knew what you were playing if you're doing three tunes at a time, etc, and not have to keep turning pages of sheet music. Obviously wouldn't work for everything, but I can see how it would be useful in that situation, particularly if you're really not going to play in much of anything besides D and G.

I know a session player who brings a small book with sheet music of all the tunes he plays, but it is only the first two or three measures. That is all he needs to remember how the tune goes. He can put a lot of tunes into one very small book.

 

[Tom]

I came across an article that talked about Irish session players reading/playing straight from ABC because you could have ten tunes on a page or more, and glance down to make sure you knew what you were playing if you're doing three tunes at a time, etc, and not have to keep turning pages of sheet music. Obviously wouldn't work for everything, but I can see how it would be useful in that situation, particularly if you're really not going to play in much of anything besides D and G.

Interesting. I use abc notation all the time. I can see how you could play directly from the “source code” if you were to spend enough time at it, especially for simple music without a lot of ornaments, and mostly in one or two keys of your melodeon. And if the “coder” followed a standard formatting style.

Even though it’s old technology, abc became the quickest way for me to make arrangements of all the systems I tried. Now, I will say I generally make fairly simple lead sheets. If I were to really get into making sheets now I would go for one of those softwares that let you do wysiwyg input using a stylus.

 

[Ventura]

abc worked on DOS 8086 computer systems and the "files"
were small enough to be shared widely through Usenet and
before that Genie and the like..

Band in a Box and Cakewalk also began at that time and also
ran quite nicely on those early platforms.. pre-internet..
before app's were even a twinkle in your daddy's eye..

 

[Xiane]

Interesting. I use abc notation all the time. I can see how you could play directly from the “source code” if you were to spend enough time at it, especially for simple music without a lot of ornaments, and mostly in one or two keys of your melodeon. And if the “coder” followed a standard formatting style.

Even though it’s old technology, abc became the quickest way for me to make arrangements of all the systems I tried. Now, I will say I generally make fairly simple lead sheets. If I were to really get into making sheets now I would go for one of those softwares that let you do wysiwyg input using a stylus.

The ornaments will just kind of happen. When you hit certain phrases, combinations that show up pretty frequently, you know that you can ornament them in various ways, that might be a little different every time through. No need to write it down (and the attempts to do so you find are...really something.) Can I? No, not really, but I'm recognizing where I might.

 

[Tom]

The ornaments will just kind of happen. When you hit certain phrases, combinations that show up pretty frequently, you know that you can ornament them in various ways, that might be a little different every time through. No need to write it down (and the attempts to do so you find are...really something.) Can I? No, not really, but I'm recognizing where I might.

You will!!!!

 

[RYLUNDO]

Another dumb question. Does it matter what instrunment sheet music is classified for. I guessing there is for significantly different instruments like brass and piano but is diatonic accordion similar enough to use piano sheet music? I seem to be full of dumb questions, thanks to everyone for answering them!