Bugari Evo - Heard of it?

[DigitalSteve]

I see it is a new digital accordion from Bugari from the folks that used to work at Roland. It has the Roland sounds but Bugari accordion hardware.

There's a YouTube video of it. Official announcement at MusicMesse on April 7th.

Steve

 

[JerryPH]

The buggers, not one picture!



But since the underlying electronics are ala Roloand, I bet it looks nearly the same.

HOWEVER... if it is an acoustic accordion with the abilities of the latest Roland V-accordions along with QUALITY Bugari hardware (not something low end), theyve basically found a way to remove almost all the reasons I would not go the route of the FX-8R. :lol:

You can tell that they are getting ready to post a lot of vids... they opened their own channel on YouTube!

Thanks for the heads-up... hey how did you hear about it, if I may ask?

 

[Glenn]

A combined accordion would be great except you would never be able to lift it .

 

[JerryPH]

As long as its under 30 pounds its workable, but as Paul DeBra mentioned, using modern technology and techniques, things in theory could be made lighter. Some concessions could be made like no internal speakers and a lighter case. I am very curious to see how they deal with all those challenges. That said, the video mentions a weight if 11 kilos, a full kilo lighter than the FR-8X.

Possibly a misunderstanding on my part, and it will have no acoustic accordion side? That would be a bit if a letdown, but hints point to that, and after looking at the video several more times, that is exactly what I am seeing.

Natural air flow system combined with dynamic bellows behavior technology, which accurately simulate the bellows response of an acoustic accordion

So if you are simulating an acoustic accordion, they are replacing it with digital tech, as I see that phrase. All it means is that instead of actuators under the buttons, the mechanisms of an accordion are used and the actuators are placed where the flap covering the hole to the reed normally are. This may give them a feel closer to a traditional accordion at the risk of additional hardware that could potentially go bad after prolonged use.

Anyway, its certainly going to be interesting to see how that is handled.

Edit: Seems Cory Pesaturo is involved... good for him, I liked him ever since I saw his TED talk on YouTube, he will make a super representative for this new accordion.
https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/bugarievo?source=feed_text&story_id=10206365906454990

 

[debra]

What I understood from that announcement is that it is purely digital. It will be interesting to try and listen to this accordion. We will be visiting the Frankfurter Musikmesse so now I'm even more excited to go!

 

[Glenn]

Looking forward to your report Paul.

 

[JerryPH]

Yes, it seems it is going to be an all digital accordion like the Roland. I was all excited there for all of 3 minutes... haha.
Oohhhhh... it seems that because a lot of Corys friends used to work for Roland, that he was holding back how he really felt about the FR8-X, not pretty!

Check out the notes in this youTube video where he is demoing the 8.


Kind of explains why he is with Bugari.
If he had any say in it, we know that the Bugari V is going to be simpler looking with fewer buttons, this was one of his complaints, as well as being too heavy. That 1 kilo lighter spec makes me wonder what they removed or changed to gain that weight.

 

[DigitalSteve]

One Kilo is 2.2 pounds. That's almost negligible to me. The FR-8X is really heavy. An accordion that is two pounds lighter won't make much of a difference to me.

If the sampling is based directly off of the Roland V-accordion then the instruments will all be identical to the FR series. The only difference therefore, will be the actual contacts for the keys, the accordion body itself, and the bellows simulation. I like all of those in the V-accordion so I'm not really sure what this accordion gets you.

I found most of Cory's complaints not valid for me. I don't play my FR-8X standing and I never would do that for two hours. The keyboard is brilliantly fast for me and I like all the buttons - gives me multiple ways of getting places quickly. Some may agree with him and that's fine too.

I'll be watching the news from MusicMesse but from the description alone this is more of an FR-8X clone and not a whole new idea. I believe that if you have a V-accordion you probably won't be purchasing one of these Bugari accordions. But if you're in the market for one you'll now have a choice based upon your preference.

It's all great for us, the consumer, and the accordion players in general. I'm pleased to see it.

 

[JerryPH]

Whether one is a fan of the "V" or not, I totally agree, choices are great and the more choices, the better even if underneath the skin they are mostly the same. It points to interest in the market and competition, both which are important for the consumers and the industry.

The Morino I have is even heavier, so I know what that feels like to carry big weight (but likely not the same balance as the "V"), and no one should be playing a 27+ pound instrument standing for more than an hour even if you can, no matter who you are, it's just not good for the back. If your style is walking around a lot or standing for long periods of time, you need something lighter. These bigger boxes are made to be played and controlled from a sitting position for best effect anyway. Shorter stints, i would think that anything can be carried around successfully by most healthy people if needed.

A few of the complaints from Cory did not sound like valid complaints but differences of opinion or style. For example he feels less buttons are better. I feel more buttons equal more options and faster ways of getting there and that this results in potentially better performances. One cannot deny his amazing playing skills, however.

I'm still kinda in the camp where an accordion can be digital, but should have a quality acoustic accordion in it, which is why I was initially so excited. I also will be listening for news, so if anyone hears anything, hopefully they will post it here for all to enjoy.

 

[JIM D.]

For whatever our opinion's on digital accordions, the news of a new version, or of new maker is always anticipated.

 

[landro]

Quite a brave move I would think ! Obviously the cost of this electronic Bugari vs the Roland will play big with it`s success . Being partially made from wood vs plastic certainly isn`t going to improve the sound , although it could sway a select few sitting on the fence.
Then I have to ask , is the demand there for another electronic accordion maker and is there going to be a model to compete with the FRX-3 which might be Roland`s most popular at 18.5 lbs and priced less than $3,900 US ? (street at $3,300) . The average age of accordion players has risen drastically from years ago making the weight factor a very important decision for them when purchasing a new accordion.
I`m 74 and slightly arthritic and consequently sold my FRX7 due to it`s weight . I switched to the FRX3 and never looked back.
And lastly , are they looking ahead with this being another last ditch effort to keep the ailing accordion industry in Italy alive ?
Regardless, I wish Bugari success.

 

[JerryPH]

Probably all that and more. Just judging by the number of people I see on YouTube playing the Roland (I know, not very accurate or scientific), one can tell that there is a market need for this style of instrument, and if there is room for one, there is competitive room for two similar products.

The winner of that race is going to be the company that has the better marketing plan, not necessarily the better instrument. The buyers, though, are going to be people that perceive it as being the better choice for them or the better instrument overall.

 

[Deleted member 48]

Waiting for the upcoming Frankurter Musikmesse videos about the Bugaro Evo digital accordions presentation and the Roland technology inside.
Its mentioned in the accordion weekly news and pdf press release
New Bugari Evo Haria P41 and Evo Haria B55 Announced - Italy with promo video
http://www.accordions.com/news.aspx?d=25-Mar-2016&lang=en#art11556

Cavagnolo France also made a new brand, the Légende, with digital ones.
http://www.accordeons-legende.fr/maison-legende/design-by-claude-cavagnolo/
the digital accordions are the modèles numériques:
http://www.accordeons-legende.fr/collection/les-modeles-numeriques/

Once more poor old Stradivarius name is used to sell digit boxes and fridges...
You name it, Strad made it, digital accordions and mouth harps...

 

[Nuuksu]

These Legende instruments are ordinary midi accordions? They look like they are.

 

[JerryPH]

Though the Cavagnolo accordion looks very nice, the midi setup that they use looks like a unit from the 80's in terms of layout and design. Certainly it cannot be rocket science to design a user friendly panel that blends into the front panel of the accordion instead of looking like your panels was cut out and this panels with 4 digits and several cheap buttons was screwed in.

I apologize if this sounds a little harsh, but if one is designing something like this, make it look like it came with it, was designed with it in mind. Today, LCD panels are cheap and display a lot more information in a superior manner, the 4 digit red numeric digital display and small cheap buttons make it look like a cheap vintage calculator, not a precision digital musical instrument for our time.

 

[Nuuksu]

Electronic components are quite cheap, but electronics engineering is very expensive. I sometimes wonder too why most of midi systems look so vintage. Yes Roland have engineers and software developers to create modern things. Musictech also have one little more modern control panel.

http://www.musictech-midi.it/eng/midi-systems/midi-with-sounds/dual-link-digi-sound

I have vintage Master Concert midi in my instrument, it have separate control panel.

 

[Deleted member 48]

I wouldn't call the Cavagnolo midi accordions ordinary, they are made from scratch with high quality materials in France.

And midi is part of the world of digital accordions, having digital interface and the electronics.

One could debating about what is more qualitative and responsive, the accordions having traditional reeds + midi system, or the reedless digital ones.
I wouldn't be so sure of the outcome of international comparison between different digital systems.

From what I heard from professional accordion teachers, they are very critical about the slow responsiveness bellows movement => sound in digital reedless accordions.
Their experience was very good accordion players have to adapt to reedless digital by playing slower. The bellows computer behaviour model simply cannot follow the player's speed and finesse in bellows movements/sound production.

They said pupils/students who started on a reedless digital accordion developed no bellows control at all. No accordion teacher in an official music school is allowing reedless digital accordions with bellows behaviour computer modelling technology.

But it is a fact digital reedless accordions are great promotion to get more rock/pop/... minded people into the accordion playing community and attract new potential accordion customers.
So I am in favour of this special digital accordion category in the accordions family, because it opens up the accordion world to all kinds of modern and future music styles. And keep in line with electric guitar and digital piano , synth music trends.

 

[JerryPH]

I meant no offense about the accordions, indeed I complemented them. I was just commenting on the midi interface which looked quite outdated.

The merits of reedless vs acoustic in todays world to me are a little less important. Acoustic is where they started, digital seems to be where they are going and in my opinion both have equal merit. If digital accordions raise awareness and popularity, this is very good and I am all for it!

Also, after looking at the Bugari line of accordions on their website, I am quite eager to see how they interpret what the reedless design should look and work like (those are some beautifully designed accordions!). Only a few more days to the announcement date, and I am looking forward to seeing it!

 

[acordiansam]

I think both boxes have there place. As far as performing with the reedless midi to compaire to a reed box with midi. The thing I like about the reedless is the control of sounds when not using the accordion sound. In a reed midi box inorder to use the bellow volume control you must play the reeds along with them to make the control work. At least the systems I have played.

All I can say is I hope the midi box will progress and people stop compairing them to an acoustic box. I think to me just like the paino. You will never get a reedless to respond and sound like an acoustic. Just apples and oranges thing.

Oh big plus no feedback for reedless. When playing in loud places.

 

[JerryPH]

...big plus no feedback for reedless. When playing in loud places.

Big plus... headphones in quiet places too.

I think comparisons are going to be hard to avoid and there are always going to be a group of purists that enjoy acoustic better than digital. I know that I am a weird egg, because I prefer the acoustic accordion with the digital, it seems, to me, to be the perfect synergy.