Beautiful Wooden Accordions?

[Tom]

Ok, based on the piture of the Serenellini below) I have been struck dumbfounded by this idea of the wooden piano accordion. As you may recall, I recently bought a wooden Della Noce organetto and I just love the wooden aspect of it. I have too many accordions and the experience of finally buying a new one has really changed my mind from buying and restoring these older, beat up accordions. Now I know if I had the skill of JimD (which I dont) I could make my accordions sound awesome and as good as new. But Im thinking of totally getting rid of all my old stuff and buying one new beautiful looking and sounding instrument. Like some others on this board, I am looking at the reduced size and weight of a 72 - 96 bass and the wooden accordion really intrigues me. Now I see that the Guernseyman likes his Serenellini and I can see why but what about other brands? What are the advantages and disadvantages of the wooden piano accordion? What about the relative cost? etc etc etc? Thanks in advance for your experience and advice!!!!

 

[Guernseyman]

Hey Tom
As you know I love my serenellini. Three things I would say about getting one. I played the wooden Paola Soprani which was brand new and didn't like it at all. The Serenellini was 2nd hand in the same shop and it's tone was much more mellow. So make sure you check out the tone and, if possible try one against another. Different wood produces different tone. Mine sounds really mellow and woody (hard to describe) but I love it. It's really great for folk but mine is not dry tuned.
Secondly, a 72 bass accordion has smaller keys. I've got used to it now and like swapping from one to the other but it takes a while. I've just noticed you said you had multiple accordions so may be teaching you to suck eggs there(what have you got by the way).
Thirdly, the wooden accordion is more easily damaged by a knock. Mine has two little dents which cosmetically are insignificant and don't affect the sound but if you are a perfectionist...be careful.
But oh it looks beautiful!

 

[Soulsaver]

Sounds like a good shop... UK?

 

[Tom]

Hey Guernsey,

Yeah, I can see what you mean about getting it knocked. I don't worry too much about that with my Della Noce, I guess if you know going in it's not as bad. I used to get a lot more concerned when I had a real pricey instrument, like guitars but now I don't worry as much. I guess it's a benefit of getting older. So, you say yours is not dry tuned, so do you mean you have a musette type sound? With the treble and bass switches can you get to a drier (ie only one reed bank) and not be overpowered by the bass? You describe a mellow, woody sound, that sounds really nice.

I have a very nice, full sized keys but compact overall 120 bass Crucianelli that has good sound and good range but to be honest it's heavy and not nearly as attractive as the Serenellini. Plus even though I have had it repaired and tuned it's seen better days and sort of needs tender loving care. Same with my 120 bass smaller Sonola Rivoli and Lyra. Each has different sized keyboards so I know what you mean.

Interesting what you say about the differences accordion to accordion. I don't have a shop like that around here and I have only seen the Serenellinis on one shop in western Massachusetts. Probably would be scary to buy one without playing it. But I will say I did that with the Della Noce and it was OK although there are a couple things that it is probably good I didn't see!

Anyway, thanks for your input. Anyone else?

 

[noeleena]

Hi,

Tom .

I was wondering what makes you have and how small say less key's and maybe 12 or less buttons or less again im not sure just thinking , i have two Scandalli 41 key 120 button and 25 key 24 button.

im not very up with whats what , so no dought youll know much more than i. if posible do you have any pic's i could look at and how much your after
by email as that would be better for you, any way see what you think. no hurry . and only if your interested,
Thanks,

...noeleena...

 

[Tom]

Hi Noeleena,

All the accordions I have are 120 bass. It'll be a while before I actually buy the new one but I will try to remember you when I am selling the other ones. I'm not sure the older ones are worth shipping to New Zealand, I would think the shipping would be over $100. I can't really tell from your note what you are looking for, sounds like like a smaller with less basses?

Good luck with everything, Tom

 

[donn]

What wood?

While thinking about different woods that could be used, it occurred to me that you could use very light `cedar' type woods for a considerable weight savings. Would make much more difference than the few wires and buttons you save cutting a 120 bass to 72, for example, but of course rather fragile. So ... when you buy your cedar accordion, you basically buy a subscription, for a new body to be sent to your home every 2 years or as needed.

 

[jarvo]

Are the outside cases ...well are they external cases over a more robust wooden frame ? Thus giving stability ..are they wood veneer ...I mean proper wood veneer , not foil or really thin rubbish......does the wood affect the tone ...apparently guitar woods are supposed to make differing tones ...but to be honest I've never been able to tell !

Nice looking Accordion....


Jarvo

 

[donn]

There are various schools of thought on guitar woods, naturally. I think just about anyone would agree that the soundboard of an acoustic guitar depends quite a bit on the properties of the wood, because that's where the sound is generated - that's what moves the air. In the accordion, that function is performed by the reeds. The main effect of the exterior body, it seems to me anyway, would be to mute the sound a little, and the grille details would probably make more difference there than the material.

 

[Matt Butcher]

At the risk of stirring up a debate where I know nothing it seems on melodeon.net that many of the engineers think/know that the material of the exterior body doesn't affect the sound, or at least that any small difference is outweighed by the small differences in interior space etc. The argument is what donn mentions, that the sound is made by the reeds in the interior space and not by the wood. Peter "Stormy" Hyde from Australia makes the exterior bodies of melodeons from some kind of foam that hardens and they sound great (though they also sound distinctive, who knows why that is). However some people do seem to reckon that surface textures and layering (say celluloid on top of wood) can affect the sound. So I have heard that the inside of the famous old grey Paolo Soprani Irish button accordions is rough like an orange box rather than some finely polished sheet (could be why they sound so great if you like that sort of thing) and I reckon personally celluloid sounds different than pure wood (brighter vs a mellow sound that you could call ...woody) and perhaps that could be down to the layering. So maybe pure wood, nicely polished etc., might have its own sound compared to celluloid - my ears say that it does but who knows?

 

[Guernseyman]

Hi again. Tom. Yes, I get a dry tune on the single bassoon reed and the higher clarinet reed but when I play both middle reeds, it is musette tuned but I have to say it is one of the nicest toned accordions I've ever played. Whether it is the wood or simply the hand made reeds I don't know but it is great for folk music. I've played the Pigini black equivalent that everyone seems to love (343) and I think the tone is superior on the serenellini. It also has an incredibly fast action. The keys are really light, so again, great for folk music.
I am convinced the wood affects the tone as I've never heard such a lovely mellow tone. The Paoloa Soprani I played was nowhere in the league of the serenellini and that was all about tone. Gut these things are so personal. I also think the serenellini is the best looking 72bass out there. I wouldn't swap it for anything but make sure you get the tuning you want.

Hi soul saver. It is a Uk shop and it's the Accordion shop in sunningdale and they also have one in Rochdale. Mine camet from Sunningdale. They specialise in Cooperafisa accordions and I'm waiting for my new one to arrive. Only seven months of waiting so far!!

 

[Tom]

Thanks Guernsey! I don't really inderstand about the tuning. Do they have standard tunings that you can choose and do you also have the option to specify a different one? How did you arrive at your tuning? I can believe that the wood of the body has an effect on the sound. I'm not a physicist and I can see what previous posts say about the fact that all the sound is in the reed but still, the wood has to be affected by the vibrations and vice versa. I guess in the end it doesn't really matter that much. It seems that if it makes you pick it up and play and get enjoyment with other people is the key anyway.

 

[noeleena]

Hi,

Thank you Tom

as to timber or lumber or wood to ply or what ever type hard wood or soft wood they all have a different sound and depends on thickness density and a few other fators, that are inherant in wood will determin the sound to an extent and even after all that there are internal factors that may or not overide the end result = sound.

As you know im a drummer and the drums are wood or ply steel or other and can be very different, in the end sound, plus the tightness of the skin and snares.. or where on the skin you hit or use your hand , my Djembe ill have 6 different sounds i can make on it,

Take a violin in how different they are if you have an ear for the lovely sound that can be made on them....or from them. or not....

...noeleena...

 

[Tom]

Thanks Noeleena, I think you make good points about the drums and that has to relate to accordions too. Do you ever play the tambourines like in Italian music? Tom

 

[Guernseyman]

If you buy the Serenellini from new, you can specify what tuning you would like wet or dry (musette swing or double octave - same thing) As mine was second hand I liked the swing or wet tuning already but I have also heard it dry tuned and I don't think it is as good. Depends what you want to play really.

 

[Glenn]

Of course the wood has some effect on the sound from the reeds as source that is finally emitted from the accordion but the major effect is probably the shape of the interior. It's not for nothing than thin walled resonating cassottos are mounted around the reeds in some accordions to colour the sound. These little wonders marshal the early reflections and select a desired resonance by their shape. This is more akin to an acoustic guitar body.

 

[Guernseyman]

Yep Glen. Bang on. All I can say is its great and I love it but I surely can't be the only one who plays a wooden box as one of my accordions???

 

[Matt Butcher]

After all that I said above, the mrs went to a talk yesterday by Mr Pigini himself, on how they build accordions. He described how they did use different woods inside, using woods of different density and properties in different areas according to whether they were involved in reflecting much sound or not. So he obviously thinks there's something in it. As far as I know though they use celluloid for the outside. (They have got a series called Epipolka, I guess it's a more epic version of a polka, but they seem to be fake wood.)

 

[Tom]

Yep Glen. Bang on. All I can say is its great and I love it but I surely cant be the only one who plays a wooden box as one of my accordions???

Probably due to cost. I could buy a whole heap of celluloid for 1 Serenellini! But Im sure its worth it as you say. And as I mentioned, my organetto is wood.

Sounds like a cool talk, Matt. Wish I could of been there.

 

[Matt Butcher]

She had gone down for some concerts at the Royal Academy but they threw in the talk as well. She slept through part of it because she was tired. I thought when she told me of all the discussion on the forums about instrument construction etc. and the debate that could be stirred up if she had taken notes.