Bass buttons jammed?

[aaronishappy]

And that's me done for the day... Have spent way too much time today doing this! I think as per colinm's advice I will get either pliers or tweezers tomorrow, whichever grips the pistons better, and just slot all 3 rows in regardless of whether or not they're in the correct place then one by one try to gently guide each piston with the tool. As it stands if I put them in and a piston is in the wrong hole, I have to move move whole thing slightly which can cause everything to fall out of place and renders me back at the start again... The closest I got today was the entire major and minor row bar one button, whilst the 7th row was still taped up... I couldn't see where the last piston for the minor row was and in my effort to gently find it I ended up accidentally removing the whole thing and being back square one :hb

I find taping a piece of paper above the holes really helps, as it prevents the pistons from getting too engrossed and allows them for easier removal if things go awry

Still can't believe there is apparently not a single person in all of Poitiers (a city of 100,000) who knows how to repair a chromatic accordion! All the more reason for myself to do it I guess. My fingers are going to run off my hands with all this unused energy!

 

[artelagro]

Hi Aaron,
Go back to the start of this thread and read the whole thing through. Now ask yourself how much you have learned about accordions in just one week. When this final wee step works you may be one of the experts that accordionists will be bringing their box to for repairs. This has been a big job and you are progressing well.
Another of our members ran into trouble with a Hagstrom bass machine over a year ago and also felt like giving up. You are better than him - Finish your project then offer him some help - I know he hasn't finished it yet.
Garth

 

[aaronishappy]

Hi Aaron,
Go back to the start of this thread and read the whole thing through. Now ask yourself how much you have learned about accordions in just one week. When this final wee step works you may be one of the experts that accordionists will be bringing their box to for repairs. This has been a big job and you are progressing well.
Another of our members ran into trouble with a Hagstrom bass machine over a year ago and also felt like giving up. You are better than him - Finish your project then offer him some help - I know he hasnt finished it yet.
Garth

Thanks for the encouragement. To be fair my insight of the inner mechanisms of the accordion has improved and for that its not entirely fruitless. Im just a bit impatient because I really miss playing music... Its my passion in life and Im much more bored without it! (well I have a fiddle that I play too but that can get kind of annoying after a while if you dont play it well, which I certainly dont!)

Thanks again... Hopefully with a bit of patience and perseverance I can pull through

I just dont understand how someone puts it in in the first place, or how a professional repairman would do it themselves... Its so precise and fickle.

 

[TomBR]

Just a thought Aaron although I haven't tried it "live." If you're getting pretty close using the methods above but can't quite get there, how about using small rectangles of paper, about the size of a largish postage stamp with the corners cut off at one end to make a bit of a point. Roll them round something smaller than a pencil, I tested with a screwdriver shaft. The paper can then be rolled and inserted through the bass button hole to form a tube to guide the button into the hole. I found that kitchen greaseproof paper would slide in comfortably around the bass buttons of a Hohner. My guess is that a good width for the paper would be about 3/4 of the circumference of the holes, 16mm or so. You prob don't want or need a complete tube.

A bit fiddly and laborious but might help.

I assume you have a bit of wire with a hook in the end for maneuvering rods. (Made from a paperclip?) A couple might be useful.

Good luck!
Tom

 

[TW]

Or cut a drinking straw...

 

[truthinbeer]

Don't give up aaron, I am finding this thread very informative.
Just a thought, experts jump in and tell me to shut up, but would it help to separate each row of hanging rods using say thin cardboard sheets between the rows to prevent them tangling? Then it might be possible to tilt the bass machine frame so that the rows can be lowered in one row at a time without the other pistons co-mingling.
I'll be quiet now.

 

[TomBR]

Or cut a drinking straw...

Good thought, if one can find some that have large enough diameter. If you had some a bit smaller in diameter than the buttons, it might be possible to cut sections, split them, wholly or partially, and slide them over the buttons so that you have an extension going through the hole.

Using more traditional methods, Id be inclined to try starting getting buttons into holes from one end rather than one side?

 

[aaronishappy]

Dont give up aaron, I am finding this thread very informative.
Just a thought, experts jump in and tell me to shut up, but would it help to separate each row of hanging rods using say thin cardboard sheets between the rows to prevent them tangling? Then it might be possible to tilt the bass machine frame so that the rows can be lowered in one row at a time without the other pistons co-mingling.
Ill be quiet now.

Well you can really divide them like that, since the tiny plates of metal that the major and minor chords dangle off are all just mixed in with each other more or less, theyre not separated into convenient differing rows. If that makes sense.

I dont see how the straw idea would work, surely the bits of straw would just slip and fumble about anyways...? Or maybe Im not picturing it clearly. Anyone care to elaborate?

Im still trying, still getting nowhere, and still losing my patience. This just seems impossible. I just dont get it. Ive spent about €15 on various tools none of which have helped me. The pliers are too thick (and they were the smallest ones there), the tape does nothing because once you take it off one row you have to lift the machine ever so slightly anyways in order for the new row to be lifted over the wood, and once you lift it even a tiny bit the already inserted rows become loose again and just keep tangling.

If I could just find a way for each row to stay in place, yet without being too burrowed in the hole (because that causes it get stuck), then life would be easier... I can get the major row in no problem, but when I try to introduce the minor row it goes all over the place... Like I said to be able to get the minor row into place you have to lift the assembly so that the major row is almost out of its respective holes, but just not quite...

 

[aaronishappy]

I was 2 whole buttons away!!! And yet again, in order to try to get one of the last 2 in, I had to lift the assembly, and voila, the whole thing comes undone again...

 

[TomBR]

Sorry to hear it's being so frustrating.
I don't have an accordion in pieces to test the paper/straw idea on, but I'll try to explain a bit more.

In both ideas the aim is to have a tube that guides each button into its hole. You get the get the bass machine close to being in place, then install the "guide tubes" one by one, then you can slide them all into their holes, pretty much together.

The difference between the two ideas is how the "tubes" are held in place whilst it is all being set up. In the paper idea the little curls of paper are held in the holes by the springiness of the paper trying to unroll.
In the straw idea, the straw (plastic) has to be a bit smaller in diameter than the bass button, so that when you split the straw lengthwise you can open it slightly to slide it over the bass button. Because it is wanting to spring shut it holds itself in place on the button.

The aim in both cases is a little tube that holds each button in line with its hole and guides it in.


If that doesn't work is there anyone who can help you so that one person holds the machine while the other guides the buttons into place. As I said yesterday, I'd be inclined to work along the length of the machine, rather than a whole major/minor etc row at a time.

 

[aaronishappy]

Hi Tom, thanks again for the advice.

However, it's not necessary, as I think I have done it!!! I gave up taping separate rows and doing it row by row. I decided to try the other way, and instead of going from the major to minor to the 7th row, I decided to slide it in via the 7th row first (as this was on the outside relative to how the accordion was facing me), and I found that the pistons slotted in easier. Not all of them went into their appropriate holes, and so I had to re-slide, and nitpick individual pistons (which was very hard given the tiny amount of space and my huge fingers) until eventually all of them were in. I kept messing up time and time again, but seeing as it was too late to go buy straws I decided to just keep trying in the off-chance that I'd get a lucky 'slip'. After a while I managed to figure out a rhythm to try and slide them in, and eventually, I was able to get most of them in bar a few major chords. Some patience, perseverance and a cup of coffee (and 2 hours) later and I managed to finally get all of them in their place. I adjusted them to their levers, clipped it on and screwed the plate back - and I can fully confirm that it's functioning!

However, it seems that 2 buttons are pointing in a slightly different direction - this could be from the not being perfectly re-entered into their holes, or it could be the wrong pistons, nonetheless, the sound relative to it's relevant chord is certainly made and it seems to have no bearing on it... Though I could be wrong, it's 23.11pm and I live in a dormitory so unfortunately it's too late to give it a proper blast. I will unfortunately have to wait until the morning to give it a real squeeze.

Thank you to everyone who helped me in this thread. Provided that everything is working correctly (which I think it is), I am really satisfied that I managed to repair it myself. It feels really, really good. I much appreciate all the help I've been given and the interest garnered in this thread! I hope this is one of many steps to becoming an adept accordion mechanic...

 

[colinm]

Well done, most people would not have attempted a fix, you can afford some pliars and a screwdriver now with the money you have saved
Cm

 

[aaronishappy]

Ha well I already purchased them. The pliers were no good to me but I'm sure they will come handy in the future. I'm going to go outside so I can play it as loudly as possible, to see if it's truly fixed. At least I know what to do now in case it isn't! Fingers crossed either way

 

[aaronishappy]

So I did play to my heart's content but the dormitory warden told me to shut up more or less I managed to get 5 minutes in before I had to pack it in, but everything played and sounded perfectly :b I am delighted...! I'd love to know how much I saved.

Definitely provided for some stressful late nights though. I nearly smoked a cigarette despite the fact I quit a year ago (thank God I didn't!).

 

[Soulsaver]

Whew - Aaronishappywasnothappybutnowisagain. Well done. Those couple of bass buttons that are pointing at the wrong angle can be straightened WITHOUT removing the mechanism... when you're feeling brave. Needs a bit of tubing that slides down over the button so it can be gently manipulated back into regimental.

 

[aaronishappy]

Ok, thanks. Are they at any risk at the moment? I mean it doesn't really bother me. I'm happy to leave them as they are if they're not gonna cause any problems.

 

[TomBR]

Well done you! Delighted to hear you got it sorted by developing your own method and by persistence. Glad you can now play again, (well, at suitable times!)
Cheers,
Tom

 

[artelagro]

Five stars Aaron.
I assume you have filmed this so that we can all watch on YouTube.
You already have a worldwide audience - I counted Ireland, France, England, Australia, USA and even Northern Scotland so far.
The most interesting thread we have had on here for some time - Thanks again.
Garth

 

[SteveM796]

Ive been following this post with great interest. Will he .....wont he..... fix it ? Will the box be consigned to the scrap heap ?

No........it lives {} {} {}

Great stuff and well done for persevering with what appeared to be a really fiddly project.

Cheers,

Steve

 

[artidots]

Cor ! Gold Medal for perseverance Aaron and a really interesting thread culminating in complete success (and just about worldwide applause eh)!!

Go enjoy, you have certainly earned it !

Rob