Advice to learn how to use the free bass system.

[dak]

I don't know much about Free Bass and the left hand layout. I really didn't expect a person to use more than one layout. I thought there were different layouts for different makes of acoustic accordions with Free Bass. If a person, with a Free Bass acoustic, should get a Roland, he could configure the left hand to the same layout that his acoustic has.

That doesn't make the Roland provide more functionality to a single person than a converter of the proper type does. It makes it easier to buy and sell it if you want to use free bass, but doesn't provide an advantage while you keep it.

 

[JerryPH]

Hello everybody,

I have a question today, how can I do pre-freebass exercises before buying an accordion with converter?

There is already a ton of really good and valid info in this thread. I'd like to offer my 2 cents... and that is exactly all this is worth, but here goes.

That facts are that you cannot "pre-practice" FreeBass anymore than you can pre-practice learning to read without using anything that is written down. There is only one way to do it... and that is on a FreeBass accordion.

So I just wondered if there was a way I could train my left hand before getting a free bass converter. One idea I had is buying a piano keyboard and train from there.
But I am not sure if this is a productive idea.

So that would be akin to learning English by reading a French book... lol

Jaime, you are pretty much at the START of your journey, and my advice would be to be sure you do what is necessary to work and save money so that you can ONE DAY afford to make the purchase of an accordion with the Free Bass method that you chose and will stick with.

In the meantime, you have SO MUCH that you can learn. Work on mastery of the right hand, work on the mastery of the stradella system. That alone can take decades if you want it to. There is ONE minor thing you can do, and that is to keep the fingers a little more limber than if you did not do anything else... how fast can you do all the scales on the left hand? I'm not just taking major scales, but minors, seventh and diminished scales. That was a big help for me that even then I was very proficient with the left hand when doing scales and bass solos for my stradella music.

One day when the choice of a system/accordion model is made, you will be ready to focus more on the Free Bass aspects because your mind won't be struggling as much with the basics. I was playing 9 years before I got to my first Free Bass, and yes granted I was 13 years old at the time, but I recall how much easier it came because I was well conditioned for learning and everything on the right hand was in place (yeah, 13-year-olds have sponges for minds... lol), as were good habits, good technique, bellows control and many other things. It just freed up my mind so much to not need to think about anything other than the fingers of the left hand.

There is not much more you can do to prepare other than have a SOLID FOUNDATION, the rest will fall in to place.

 

[saundersbp]

I was surprised, when I visited Italy last fall, that both converters that were placed in my lap (one each at Pigini and Fisitalia) were rotated B systems.

The Pigini representative opined that something like 90% of their B-system converters had Russian rather than Western left hands now.

I don't know if that means the Russian system has gained any traction in the west, or just that they se

When we were there last year we also were told similar by the bigger companies: that most of the accordions they produced were for the big market i.e. Asia and B system.

 

[Jaime_Dergut]

When we were there last year we also were told similar by the bigger companies: that most of the accordions they produced were for the big market i.e. Asia and B system.

So, what I understand from that is that there is a lost in interest for arts in our side of the world.

Music schools are full of chinese taking lessons on classical music for international competition.

The rest of the kids? They go to a school of rock, learn a couple of chords with a guitar, and then lose any interest in music once they realize is hard to be good at it.

 

[Walker]

So, what I understand from that is that there is a lost in interest for arts in our side of the world.

Music schools are full of chinese taking lessons on classical music for international competition.

The rest of the kids? They go to a school of rock, learn a couple of chords with a guitar, and then lose any interest in music once they realize is hard to be good at it.

Take heart Jaime_Dergut...

In the ever spinning wheel of time, what was once popular fades from the front pages and what is big now will not last forever.

The accordion industry in Castelfidardo used to make nearly 200,000 accordions a year back in 1951, but now makes 20,000 or maybe less. In their heyday Scandalli had around 700 employees, but now the big three or four brands have around 30 employees each.

We live in a time when accordion production has become very small scale and quite boutique - easily swallowed up by the burgeoning wealth that's emerged in China. Thank goodness there is some interest from new markets for accordion makers.

The West has digested millions of accordions over the decades. Nowadays our societies are more individual, and different hobbies compete for dominance. In some places the accordion is the preserve of old men and women - why not! However, in some places the accordion has a youthful appearance - in Brazil for example. Also, many people believe new accordions are simply not good enough and will spend big bucks on seeking vintage models.

Piano system, B system, C system, Kravtsov, diatonic instruments, bandonion, concertina and everything in between - for such a diminished instrument there is still remarkable variety - isn't it a wonderful thing that we do not all need to be the same - playing music in the same way, with the same sounds and the same instruction books. The accordion is not one instrument, it is a whole group of instruments, and that is the reality of it - so often I hear of someone nearby who has just had a custom made instrument crafted for them with all sorts of unusual features. Wonderful.

Nothing lasts forever, so enjoy what you have when you can.

One of my favourite tunes by our friend @Piotr

 

[Ed S]

Suggestion: Elsbeth Moser's "The Chromatic Button Accordion C-Keyboard System" covers C-Griff for both hands, and is easily purchasable. I'm just starting with it, so I can't recommend it very strongly yet.

Question: I believe that the Roland "Minor 3rd" free bass button layout is a normal C-griff converter free bass - but I'm new to all this. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[dunlustin]

Roland "Minor 3rd" free bass button layout is a normal C-griff converter free bass = Yes

 

[dak]

Roland "Minor 3rd" free bass button layout is a normal C-griff converter free bass = Yes

Their terminology is supposed to explain to people who haven't a clue about free bass what the layout does. The problem is that people who haven't a clue don't want to get a self-explaining name (they can look in the diagram). They want to know whether it will match some instrument they may buy at a future point of time. They'll accept "C system" when they know that this is what their (likely not yet bought) acoustics will end up having and what the books they'll be buying will explain to them. Regardless of what "C system" actually means.

I mean, that we are talking about this shows how much of a marketing failure those descriptive terms are.

 

[Big Squeezy Accordions]

I also heard that you can get away with 90% of classical music with stradella alone. What do you think about that?

As a Stradella player who listens to more "classical" (referring to music composed mainly in Europe between the 1500s and the present - a complete misnomer, of course) than anything else, and has arranged some classical pieces for Stradella, I would say the the percentage is much lower. Many pieces can be approximated on Stradella, but some simplification is also most always required. Personally, I enjoy the challenge posed by the limitations of the Stradella system. I like coming up with creative solutions for, at least, putting the piece across, if not completely faithfully honoring the composer's intent. The Stradella system is ingenious and still sometimes manages to surprise me, but there is ultimately no getting around its limitations for harmonically complex or contrapuntal music.

 

[Big Squeezy Accordions]

Is fair enough. I just wonder There is a lot of fun I can have with Stradella and I still haven't exploited its full capabilities. I am just daunted at the huge learning curve of the free bass system, given its price and lack of learning material. But I guess that's an area I shouldn't be sticking my nose into yet.


I feel like we could get the full capabilities of the accordion if converters were more common. I guess some people will not use them all but still, so much potential hidden.


I'm not. I will personally go for whatever is more convenient for me, and is faster to learn. I was told that free bass is a feature for professional musicians only, which was somehow demoralizing.


Here is a wonderful orchestra composed of accordions. Some use piano, some buttons, some might use B or C system, but it doesn't really matter. At the end, they are all playing together to produce majestic music! Watching this today inspired me to just improve my skills further.


Indeed. I also want to play music from the Romantic era. I really don't know if I could ever get my hands into a quint converter (or whatever), but I guess the right accordion will show up, eventually.

I am still concerned about the lack of learning material, especially since learning proper fingering is very important. My best guess is that I can ask my questions here!


On that video, it would make me thing that converters are more commons in bayans. It sounds amazing.

The part of this video that begs explanation is the claim that most accordions can be retrofitted with free bass convertors. Short of completely replacing the bass section, I don't see how this would be practicable.

 

[dunlustin]

Dak Re your "Their terminology is supposed to ...........etc"
I have absolutely no idea what you mean.
That said, my reply did, I believe, answer, the question from EdS.
I hope EdS agrees, if he does not, I'll try again.

 

[dak]

The part of this video that begs explanation is the claim that most accordions can be retrofitted with free bass convertors. Short of completely replacing the bass section, I don't see how this would be practicable.

They may be thinking of quint bass exclusively, and yes, this will necessitate replacing the bass mechanics at least. I doubt that standard bass reed blocks are all that well for creating a melody bass: since the octave break is undesirable in all registrations, they will "stay in character" within each reed set, meaning that if you use them in melodies, you instead get a break in character when passing from one reed set to the next. Each Stradella reed set tends to have reed plates of one size while a converter has more finely staggered reed plate sizes.

 

[dak]

Dak Re your "Their terminology is supposed to ...........etc"
I have absolutely no idea what you mean.

I mean that Roland should just use standard terminology to avoid the questions we are seeing here.

 

[Riccardo]

Find all comments interesting as well as enlightening. As a really old timer must add that I found that my 'Stradella' Excelsior Symphony Grand did not limit my performing throughout North America and Europe, playing the classics including Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Chopin, Lehar, Mendelssohn, Rossini, Paganini, Enesco, among many others, and winning a few awards over the years, including the Canadian Championship twice. Of course all were transcriptions of the originals but only the 'purists' may have some difficulty with that concept... In my opinion, all creative works are subject to interpretation and that's what is refreshing in all the arts, and especially in music and interpreting for accordion. Must also that I go back in that regard to the 40's-70's before the micro-chip changed the world and particularly in the ever-changing field of accordions and electronics. As I may have mentioned in a previous comment, this is in no way to disparage modern times, but as a really 0ld-timer who met some of the pioneers like Deiro, Magnante, Carrozza, Van Damme, I look upon those years as the most memorable for me and the "classical" instruments we had the privilege of owning and playing.... a bit like a violinist owning a Strad or Amati.... or Les Paul cut-away or Gibson! Another contact re bayans would be colleague and friend Peter Soave living in France. Should still be on the internet. He also organizes seminars for those interested in improving skills. Also piano accordion champion...

 

[saundersbp]

Another contact re bayans would be colleague and friend Peter Soave living in France. Should still be on the internet.

What a lovely man! I spent a few days with him and Mady last summer.
Great sausages too!

 

[Riccardo]

Thank you for letting me know that. you've made my day -- and beyond.. Peter also performed here years ago for a couple of concerts I had organized for the Canadian Accordion Association... If you're into meeting outstanding accordionists, contact Italian Emanuale Rastelli who also performed here several times including the annual festival at Montmagny Quebec. Unfortunately gone dark as I've learned.
Also attended the accordion event years ago at Bridlington.. All this proves it's a small world!!

 

[Walker]

Here's a short and well presented video about several accordion bass systems. Enjoy!

 

[Javthedog]

Here's a short and well presented video about several accordion bass systems. Enjoy!

Some useful/good free stuff on her website - for beginners like me - bass rhythms etc

 

[Tom]

Some useful/good free stuff on her website - for beginners like me - bass rhythms etc

She does a regular free zoom meeting too, which can be interesting….. (I think once a month.) Some community, some education, some fun and games. Good stuff.

 

[Rodney]

I read that the Palmer-Hughes book is out of print now.

A set of PH books except Book 7, for Kindle, are available on Amazon. Getting them into pdf format, on my iPad was a simple case of screen dumping then preparing to print but zooming into the page to bring up the ‘save to file’ option which iOS does as a pdf. I’ve unsuccessfully searched for a digital copy of Book 7 and resorted to buying the physical book which I’ll copy into pdf format

Hope this helps and, if you have iOS, you are welcome to reach out if you feel the need.