Ventura
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Advice on purchasing a quality new or gently used piano 60 or 72 bass accordion under $1000.
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OuijaBoard
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I forgot I have another Welt--On impulse thinking I might wish to learn CBA, in the early 2000's I bought an MM Weltmeister Romance 72 bass on ebay. For $350. When it arrived, I open it up and there is this apparently unplayed CBA in its new case, swathed in the plastic with the new straps laying on top of it. I don't know if it was New-Old-Stock, or what. It sat in the closet until around 2010, when I got cracking, and that is what I first learned the layout on. I moved on to smaller 60 bass Hohner Nova MMs, but that instrument is fine. I just dug it out and I see it's leaking somewhere, but it's something like 20 years old and otherwise as hardy as can be.
Unbelievably, that identical model is now priced new at $3,000.
There is a whole counter-narrative by some about the contemporary smaller Welts, which is that the plastic ensures longer-lived internals with less deterioration. I think the small ones have their place . . . at a price. What they're now going for is dismaying. This is literally the identical very instrument I purchased for $350.
NEW White Pearl Weltmeister Romance 602 Chromatic Button Accordion C MM 60 72
Type: Chromatic Button Accordion C System Reeds: 2/4 MM Treble: 60(36) Buttons, 10(25.5cm) Button to Button, 3 Registers Bass: 72 Bass Buttons, 0 Registers Weight: 15lbs / 7kg Features: Compact size 5 Row Includes: New Straps and Case, 2 Year
Dingo40
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That's inflation for you!
That size accordion is pretty popular right now with far fewer good ones in circulation in the US than 120 bass instruments. Getting a halfway decent one at your price will require being lucky. Properly assessing the condition of an accordion requires in person evaluation or at least a solid video of it being used. Dealing with as-is accordions from dubious sources can be rewarding but it’s a gamble.
kimric
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It might be OK but it is like telling the condition of a cars engine from a picture. The old weltmeister and delicia instruments often need valve and wax work.
Condescending responses are commonplace in everyday life, especially where the inquirer indicates that he/she/it wants other people to do basic research for him/her/it to save the need to actually make a little effort of his/her its own.
A bit of effort on your part, even just perusing the existing threads on this and related topics on this site alone, would have precluded the need to ask your question.
Indeed, some of us are old and cranky, tired of others using us up as if our accumulated knowledge and experience are common property to be accessed at will, without acknowledgement, to accommodate lazy minds which offer neither "please" nor "thank you" in true self privileged fashion.
On the other hand, there are the likes of debra, JerryPH, Walker, DIngo40, Tom, et al who are far less shitlivered than the likes of myself: And believe me, I appreciate their unflinching generosity at every one of their contributions.
jensenvideo
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Lazy mind? I spent several hour on this forum and on the internet searching for an answer to my question about finding a good quality 72 bass accordion under $1000 and could not find one- SO I POSTED.. Is basic research 10 hours, 30? I have offered 'thumbs up' on almost every post responding to my question on this thread. Should I be sending them gifts also? Really?Condescending responses are commonplace in everyday life, especially where the inquirer indicates that he/she/it wants other people to do basic research for him/her/it to save the need to actually make a little effort of his/her its own.
A bit of effort on your part, even just perusing the existing threads on this and related topics on this site alone, would have precluded the need to ask your question.
Indeed, some of us are old and cranky, tired of others using us up as if our accumulated knowledge and experience are common property to be accessed at will, without acknowledgement, to accommodate lazy minds which offer neither "please" nor "thank you" in true self privileged fashion.
On the other hand, there are the likes of debra, JerryPH, Walker, DIngo40, Tom, et al who are far less shitlivered than the likes of myself: And believe me, I appreciate their unflinching generosity at every one of their contributions.
And no, condescending responses are NOT OK in any forum- so please stop pretending that they are.I'm just a beginning accordion player looking for a new instrument, and am so very grateful for all the wonderful help I have received thus far on this thread from many with much more experience than I.
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For better or worse, the sentences making a lasting impression are those that trigger emotions. And it's easier to trigger bad emotions than friendly ones. So if someone is 95% friendly and helpful, the 5% is what will make most of a difference. That's what you are in part feeling, and with reactions like the above, that is also what you are close to triggering.
Social competence in online media is surprisingly hard, and it is missing a lot of mitigating circumstances that a live presence offers for getting how others tick and what actual stance they have towards you.
And one problem is its anonymity: if someone riles you up, you have a hard time telling a single person's effect on you from the effects of anyone else and get mad at everyone, essentially at the screen before you. If you lash out, everybody gets upset.
It pays not to take things overly personal. Escalation comes very easy online and isn't helpful.
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It is quite normal to spend this much time, and more, on research prior to making a buying decision.
In 1999 I wanted to get a better quality piano accordion. My wife and I drove 350km (each way) to Frankfurt, Germany, to visit the Frankfurter Musik Messe (which later did not survive the Covid lockdowns) and spent hours going from booth to booth trying similar accordion models from each available brand in order to decide which accordion we liked best. We ended up deciding on the Bugari Artist Cassotto.
After our switch to CBA my wife and I drove even further into Germany to try (and buy) a Hohner Morino Artiste X S, (a model that had been discontinued for over 15 years but a vendor had a new one, or "previously unused", which I ended up buying. This was after a lot of experience with friends playing a Morino, so we knew the sound very well.
When I later made up my mind to buy a new Russian bayan (mainly because at that time the exchange rates were such that it would cost about half of the price of an Italian "equivalent" bayan) I started by watching tons of videos on YT in order to get a good idea which sound I preferred. Then, my wife and I traveled about 200km (each way) to a concert by two solo bayan players, one playing half the concert on a Jupiter bayan, the other one playing on an AKKO bayan. We both reached the same conclusion and bought the AKKO.
You see, the buying decision on accordions is not something to take lightly. It's not like going to the supermarket and just buying something. You are very right to spend a lot of time *before* buying because this saves you a lot of time and money "after" buying when the accordion turns out to not be what you were expecting.
Dingo40
Been here for ages!
Jensenvideo,
I have a feeling that finding something to meet your stated requirements will be like the search for the Holy Grail: not easily attainable.
Although theoretically possible, it may take quite a long time as well as the luck of being in the right place at the right time.
Were you able to double or treble your budget, you would improve your chances of success, and reduce the effort required, enormously.
With accordions, there's a trade off involved: you can pay more and reduce the restoration costs/search time and effort OR keep looking, and pay less, but probably spend more time/ money/ effort on restoration/ repairs. Your call!
Occasionally, you can be lucky by being in the right place at the right time
I imagine some of the listings here could be the kind of thing you may be interested in, but look at the prices!!!
If course, everyone here would also like to beat the odds .
See here:
Like New or Certified Pre-Owned
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I have a feeling that finding something to meet your stated requirements will be like the search for the Holy Grail: not easily attainable.
Although theoretically possible, it may take quite a long time as well as the luck of being in the right place at the right time.
My first 72 bass was a Hohner Concerto II and I think I paid about £650, so maybe $800? This makes me wonder whether prices in the USA are higher, or whether Hohner's aren't considered that good? They have been described as the Volkswagen of the accordion world, but then I drive a Volkswagen so don't see an issue there!
Dingo40
Been here for ages!
When my daughters were in their teens, my youngest daughter ( still in high school) expressed some resentment at her eldest sister's (a freshman at medical school) boyfriend (at the time) saying she felt he was being condescending to her.
I reassured her that, as the said boyfriend already had two PhDs, was a research fellow, a lecturer and was enrolled in a medical course, he probably had a lot to be condescending about!
Case closed.
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Vladimir M.
Active member
Exactly as said before: Accordion is not a beer that you simply go to the supermarket for. It is an instrument of long-term activity. That's why it takes a long time to find. As you grow musically, you'll want to upgrade your instruments. Perhaps. And I know people who still haven't found their "right" instrument.
Dingo40
Been here for ages!
Allowing for the conversion factor , that already comes close to US $1,000.
It's actually my experience that the gods in some complex field or endeavor tend to be rather open and welcoming. Essentially their problem is not getting ahead of everyone else because that's already where they are, but to have people catch up with them to have company.When my daughters were in their teens, my youngest daughter ( still in high school) expressed some resentment at her eldest sister's (a freshman at medical school) boyfriend (at the time) saying she felt he was being condescending to her.
I reassured her that, as the said boyfriend already had two PhDs, was a research fellow a lecturer and was enrolled in a medical course, he probably had a lot to be condescending about!
Nothing left to prove to anybody, in some manner.
Now demigods are an entirely different matter...
Very true!
Social media are missing out on a large part of their intended function.
I often see things I would like to warn other people about (like dishonest accordion vendors) but I refrain from doing this too openly on social media, because anything bad you say about someone else will come back to you like a boomerang. And dishonest people will of course also use their dishonesty to post all kinds of lies about you...
OuijaBoard
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Unlike others here, I'm not going to endorse or defend the tone or phrasing of the response that made you unhappy, or make you into an "escalator" who "isn't helpful" for objecting to it.
But on the other hand, after stating the parameters of what you were looking for and then being given a ton of input from people who took the time to provide a) An inkling of illumination as to why your hours of pre-research here had turned up no answer to how one acquires a "new/slightly used 60 or 72-bass quality accordion for less than $1,000"; and b) Strong counsel to seek out someone within reach of your location who knows what they're doing to sell you or help you find and vet a suitable used instrument it would be safe to buy . . . . . . . . you ignored that counsel and proceeded to post a photo of a plainly dilapidated and damaged item you saw on craigslist or somewhere, and tried to make people in an online forum serve as the vetter as to whether you should buy it. Yes, you got a tart response, but the same response did close with apologies for being a tad blunt.
We can't assess a used accordion for you here online. You already have an accordion that cost less than $1,000. It's called a Golden Cup. You're not going to find a "quality" item you "can grow into" in that price range in your size parameters. Well, a vintage West German Hohner 72-bass might be had not too far over that price range. There are also some vintage Italian student models such as Titano, Giulietti, Contello MM or LM instruments in the 72-bass size that are increasingly rare and turn up once in a blue moon, but you need an expert vetter to steer you to one that's in good nick, and that is not people in an online forum. You have every right to ignore that wise advice and go it on your own, but it is not the role of people in an online forum to do the vetting and assessment in place of someone close at hand who can check out the instrument.
All we can do is give information and opinions about accordions, and counsel--strongly counsel--that you seek out someone with expertise so you don't throw your money away. We can also cheer you on as you journey through that experience. That is a strong point for the gang around here.
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My recommendation would be to avoid anything that needs repair. Even modest repairs on a small accordion can cost you hundreds of dollars. With a budget of $1k, you must focus on getting the best instrument you can that is already in playable condition. I do not know the reputation of any dealers in your area, but in a brief search I did find one accordion fairly close to you that, if it is in good condition, would in my opinion be quite a good choice. Best of luck! These decision are always difficult but exciting.
OuijaBoard
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Well, the OP wanted light and 60 or 72 bass. That's the rub--there are 41/120s around for sure. But everybody--well, not everybody, but plenty of people--currently want the 60 or 72 bass size, and due to that, vintage examples in good condition are not falling out of the trees as they once did.
Even vintage West German Hohner Concerto III 34/72s are going for approaching $2K with some dealers if they are later models in near-mint condition. I have vintage Titano 30/50 LMs I acquired for $350 and $600 respectively, but that was 7 and 10 years ago. In the rare instances one turns up in good condition, they are now going for around $1200 with dealers.
Elsewhere!
The best thing I've found is to get someone in real life - a new accordion friend or a teacher - to lend you a few of their instruments to give you a better idea. I'm hopeful Yorkshire isn't uniquely fraternal in that regard.
Otherwise you end up down online rabbit holes and it all gets a bit intense as the oxygen depletes!
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