Adding MMM tuning

[smdc66]

Hi

I have two 3 voice accordions (pigliacampo,concerto) and once heard a button accordion with mmm tuned coupler sound which i liked a lot :mrgreen:

this made me think could i have it ? :?: as buying a new compact size 72 bass p/a with mmm is difficult i think or expensive or both or impractical ?! :?

i presume i would need to lose the lmm coupler to do so

i am talking shop added not diy as i'm rubbish

is this feasable , costly , how much ? or should i give it up as another crazy idea i had :ugeek: {}

 

[Glenn]

It sounds unusual to have MMM (assuming a 3 voice accordion).
Normally with a 4 voice, musette tuning you would have a coupler that removed the L.
Wouldn't a 3 voice MMM sound a bit thin?

 

[Soulsaver]

Loads of musette accordions have MMM coupler, but usually also the coupler option to play with a L=LMMM & MM & MML & LM etc.
MMM only may limit what you can play 'as intended'.

 

[smdc66]

i currently have l / lm / lmm / mm / h

 

[Adam-T]

It sounds unusual to have MMM (assuming a 3 voice accordion).
Normally with a 4 voice, musette tuning you would have a coupler that removed the L.
Wouldnt a 3 voice MMM sound a bit thin?

On the contrary, I find the L reed muddies up the lovely MMM musette ..... this is why a lot of Bi-sonoric button boxes like most Steirisches and a whole bunch of Hohners & Paolos aimed at the Scottish, Irish and south american market are MMM with NO Couplers , it sounds glorious ...... in my opinion, the L Reed in LMMM is merely for solo bassoon parts and LM Bandoneon sounds but others will probably disagree.

 

[Soulsaver]

i currently have l / lm / lmm / mm / h

Hi Dave, I dont follow - didnt you say you had 2 x 3 voice? Youve got four reed combinations in the above - 4 voices :?
Or are you saying you have the above spread over 2 accordions?

 

[Soulsaver]

It sounds unusual to have MMM (assuming a 3 voice accordion).
Normally with a 4 voice, musette tuning you would have a coupler that removed the L.
Wouldnt a 3 voice MMM sound a bit thin?

On the contrary, I find the L reed muddies up the lovely MMM musette ..... this is why a lot of Bi-sonoric button boxes like most Steirisches and a whole bunch of Hohners & Paolos aimed at the Scottish, Irish and south american market are MMM with NO Couplers , it sounds glorious ...... in my opinion, the L Reed in LMMM is merely for solo bassoon parts and LM Bandoneon sounds but others will probably disagree.[/quote]
Yep I dont play my 4 voices musettes with the low+ 3ms but I do with 2ms or 1.
Ive not seen a PA 3 Ms & no couplers?

 

[smdc66]

i currently have l / lm / lmm / mm / h

Hi Dave, I dont follow - didnt you say you had 2 x 3 voice? Youve got four reed combinations in the above - 4 voices :?
Or are you saying you have the above spread over 2 accordions?[/quote]

i have 2 3 voice p/as

1 is l,lm,lmm,mm and the high pitched voice coupler but unsure what called

tother is lmm,mm - actually im confused now, from you said as this is 3 voice but only 2 couplers - on/off - think m sounds all the time and then you switch the l on or off

 

[Ben_H]

Help a newbie, please. Could some kind person explain what this all means?

I googled it but got mainly car tuning links with the odd mountain bike suspension fork page thrown in for good measure.

I guess the site is too new for sticky threads at the top with explainations, glossaries etc.

Cheers

 

[Nick_N]

Ben_H:

As best as I understand it, as another relative newbie, is that... Accordions have three distinct reed 'lengths', a bit like church organs with the 4', 8' and 16' ranks of pipes. On an accordion the Lowest set is referred to as 'L', and called Bassoon on a switch. This plays an octave below the Middle set, which is called 'M' and referred to as 'Clarinet', while the Highest 'H' set is an octave above and is called 'Piccolo'. For musical reference, the normal Middle or M set plays a Middle C note when the C key nearest the top of the accordion is pressed.

What muddies the waters though is that many accordions will have more than one set of Middle or 'M' reeds. If they were tuned identically then of course all that would happen is you get a stronger sound when you select the switch that uses more than one. But to get the typical French, often called 'Musette' sound, there must be the normal 'M' set of reeds tuned to standard pitch, then another set of 'M' reeds tuned fractionally lower, and yet another 'M' set tuned fractionally higher, which gives a distinct beat to the sound and produces that typical rich wavering sound you hear on French café accordion music.

So an accordion that is described as LMM would have one Low set of reeds and two Middle sets of reeds. There is no way of knowing what the actual tuning of each set of 'M' reeds is without hearing the accordion, or the seller telling you. It is possible to get a very plausible musette sound from just the two 'MM' sets, but to get a true musette sound, you need an accordion that has 'MMM'. Some might just have that, some (4 voice models) may have LMMM or MMMH even.

An accordion that is 'LMH' will not be able to produce a musette sound so would be unsuitable for those wishing to make that sound, but would/could be ok for many other uses such as classical or folk music.

Most players of folk, ceilidh, musette and other popular styles would not wish or need to have an 'H' reed set so would typically buy an accordion that is 'LMM' or 'MMM'. The 'H' Piccolo set is normally used by eminent classical performers to very good effect though, so it depends on what musical tastes you have.

 

[Ben_H]

Nick,

That's great, thanks. I've heard, read about that but not seen it MMM but makes perfect sense

 

[Glenn]

If you get a 5 voice accordion you can have the best of all worlds with LMMMH.
Problem is, they are big and not suitable for walking around with.

 

[Soulsaver]

The trouble is lots of people use different descriptions and the water gets muddied - causing confusion. If your interested and keep reading it'll all fall soon into place. The usual standard arrangement for 4 voice (treble reed sets) is LMMH. The other 4 voice standard arrangement if described as 'Musette' is LMMM.
The reed combinations are selected by the treble couplers/registers/switches - these, illogically IMO, are NOT voices in the fraternity parlance.

 

[simonking]

If you get a 5 voice accordion you can have the best of all worlds with LMMMH.
Problem is, they are big and not suitable for walking around with.

Yes, 5 voice instruments often seem quite fat to be be able to fit in the extra reed set. But then, even your average 4 voice accordion isnt that suitable for walking around with.

Other more unusual voice setups Ive seen are:

LLMM - called double bassoon (often with both L in cassotto) - usually dry tuned for jazz.
LLMMH - the L is an octave below the normal bassoon set. This results in one big mother of in instrument with 10s of switches.

 

[Glenn]

Interesting to know Simon,
I've never seen or heard a L'LMMH. Sound like a monster of an accordion.
By the way, I find most 4 voice accordions on the second hand market a Musette tuned. This seems (or at least seemed) the mist popular.

 

[BobM]

I have a LMMM, but have had the upper and lower reeds tuned differently, the top being +16% and the bottom -5%, this suits me because I don’t need an “authentic” musette. I still get a bigger thicker sound than with just 2 M’s going, but I now have incremental tuning differences between the registers. So for example, rather than going from a straight sound to an obviously detuned one, I have a Bandoeon “plus” sound which has a synth like quality to it, so in short, I have a choice between a “swing” tuned and German (?) tuned box.

 

[simonking]

...Ive never seen or heard a LLMMH...

Thinking about it, maybe it didnt have the L reed (the internet shows up nothing like that) - or maybe it did - there was definitely something unusual about the choice of registers though, and it sure was a monster anyway. I saw it in Accordions of London - perhaps its still there.

You can definitely get double bassoon accordions.