Considering Roland

[Edscrz]

I am considering Roland 3x or 4x. Couple of concerns. Can I set it up for orchestra sounds and or organ sounds for volume with a foot pedal and accordion sound varying volume with bellows similar to my Accorgan? Also what would be an easy to use stand alone rythm unit to use for live jobs. Don't need arranger since I like playing my own bass runs. My Accorgan has good selection of set rythms just have to set tempo. What would be comparable?

 

[JerryPH]

You can set up different pedals for orchestral sounds but the setup is not evident, easy or intuitive. You would need a MIDI pedal and I can guide you to someone that makes these pedals for Roland accordions to simplify that process. There is also the option to master registration and programming, to have available different setups where volumes are different so that perhaps the next registration is a chin switch away. Again, it is time consuming but doable.

I'd recommend the 4X as it is more advanced and recent than a 3X offering more possibilities. Maximum possibilities lay with an 8X as you can also play percussion on the right hand as well and can control 2 orchestral vs 1 on the right hand. Both also offer Free Bass which can offer the ability to access not just that realm of music but many more percussive sounds than 2 rows of buttons could.

Really what you should do is watch a ton of videos on Youtube, talk to 2-3 4X owners and then spend as much time as you can with a 4X to see if this is for you.

Comparing an acoustic with a V-accordion at any other level beyond it's most basic feature sets on both sides is a tremendous exercise and then if taken past that, an exercise in frustration.

Can you gig with a 4X, yes, no doubt, but be ready to spend hundreds of hours getting to know it and changing your playing style or way of working/gigging. The V-accordion has it's ways of doing things just like the Accorgan had it's ways of doing things. The two are similar, but (playing the keys of the accordion aside), thats about it. For example, I can control volume from 3 different areas:
- the bellows
- how hard I hit a key on the right hand
- how hard I hit a key on the left hand

...and that exercise alone is a skill that takes a lot of time and practice to get comfortable with.

Then come all the idiosyncrasies that come with a V-accordion such as the different feel of the keys, a limited battery life, the strong possibility that Roland will not move forward with them, etc.

The fact remains, though, that the V-Accordion is the current king of the hill in the digital accordion world.

 

[oldbayan]

I have been playing a FR-18 for many years and FR-1x and FR-3x for a couple of years. I must admit that I do not use much of their "non-accordion" features while performing. For me it's more about having multiple instrument models and sounds in one box, and an easy connection to an amp or sound board for recording and amplification. The FR-3x is more than 10 years old so I would definitely try to get a 4x if I wanted to exploit MIDI and orchestration features. I don't see the power as an issue, I usually perform using the AC adapter with batteries being a backup. I use a Alesis SR18 drum machine and also a Roland RC-505 looping station when I want to have some fun! To people who say "it's not like an acoustic accordion" I reply: "indeed, it's a Roland V-accordion and I like it because it's digital!". I also use acoustic boxes BTW.

 

[Edscrz]

I can't find a Roland V dealer in Chicago area. A dealer in Wisconsin sells an Excalibur digital accordion new for $4700, retail price $6900. Don't know anything about Excaliber, says its made in Italy, with real wooden keys. Is it worth looking at?

 

[Alan Polivka]

I am considering Roland 3x or 4x. Couple of concerns. Can I set it up for orchestra sounds and or organ sounds for volume with a foot pedal and accordion sound varying volume with bellows similar to my Accorgan? Also what would be an easy to use stand alone rythm unit to use for live jobs. Don't need arranger since I like playing my own bass runs. My Accorgan has good selection of set rythms just have to set tempo. What would be comparable?

As someone who's played lots of different organ-accordions, MIDI accordions, and now Roland accordions, I can tell you that perhaps the single best feature of the Roland is the ability to control the orchestral sounds via bellows. Horns, piano, etc., sound tremendously more realistic when their dynamics are controlled by bellows than when controlled by a foot pedal, as we had virtually no choice but to do with Accorgans, MIDI accordions, etc. Once you discover how much better orchestral sounds are with bellows control, you'll never use a pedal to control them again.

 

[Ventura]

hi Ed,

i read your question differently than the others

if what you are saying is that you want to upgrade to a modern system,
perhaps a Roland
and (specifically and importantly) emulate closely your current and long time squeeze (accorgan)
then
the Roland fr3, 3x, or 4x will do nicely with one main issue

they transmit Bellows expression, so you have to be squeezing to hear
anything from an organ or other sound expander mostly

for Organ of course this sucks, so i (and some others of us) use a device
from Micro Solutions that strips everything from the MIDI data coming from the Roland
except
note on note off
and then send the MIDI to any organ module of your choosing which
runs through it's own Volume Pedal

briefly, if you prefer a roland that works well and sounds nice
but is easy to learn to use, the FR3 or 3x is better
it has 10 accordions, well marked, easy to switch between, they sound
pretty good some even very good

the 4x is complex, bur rewarding if you don't mind learning it

both the fr3 and fr4 have MIDI outputs on the box, they work
fine with wired or Wireless MIDI systems

briefly, i use the Roland VK8m drawbar module, which has a jack
for an expression pedal that is independant of the audio out

then you would use the built in orchestral sounds of the Roland
or
add a second sound module, a GM device like a Sound Canvas,
and split the MIDI signal out to that.
(i say split because you DO want the bellows and velocity keyboard
info to go through to orchestral sounds)

both the FR3 and FR4 send velocity, so using an outboard module for
Piano, Guitar, Banjo etc. sounds works very well

the FR4 also can play it's own Guitars, Piano's etc., but the FR3 is more limited
for orchestral built in sounds

ps: Excaliburs suck.. they started as purely Chinese junk imported by Laabs ,
but it is ok to look for simple MIDI accordions that would also be an upgrade
for you, and easy to use with an Organ Module. Used MIDI accordions with simple
note on note off MIDI are usually under $2000 unless the accordion itself
is exceptional, like a Beltuna or something, but if you like the idea of being
complately wireless, go for the Roland as it can use batteries

pss: drum machines kinda died out as complex expanders got more popular,
so just look for a used one at a Music go Round for a hundred bucks or so..
Korg and Roland both made a ton of drum sidemen style machines

yeah i specifically built my system to emulate the Cordovox, in that i like to
have my Organ sound fully independant, then squeeze in the accordion on top of it if i want
or pedal the organ out as the accordion comes in

you will need a decent PA system of course, and at least one great 15" speaker
(if you want it to thunder like an Organ Accordion should)

ciao

 

[John M]

. . . Comparing an acoustic with a V-accordion at any other level beyond it's most basic feature sets on both sides is a tremendous exercise and then if taken past that, an exercise in frustration. . . .

At the basic level, the Roland V accordion can't compare to an acoustic accordion. I am not an expert on acoustic accordions. I don't have access to many makes/types of acoustics to compare a V accordion to. However, I do have an Excelsior 960, with cassotto, in excellent condition which I can compare to my 8X. The 16' bassoon reed sounds great on my 960. I "dug in" to my 8X software with the many reed choices and the MFX Edit 4 Band equalizer control. Using these controls, I have an Art Van Damn Jazz sound that far surpasses my 960. It is a nice, smooth as silk, tone. I use my 8X with a Bose speaker.

I know the Acoustic vs. Digital accordions is a controversial topic In my opinion, the Roland V accordions "out of the box" are a disaster. They only get you to "First Base". However, the software that they have allowed you access to, is very powerful. You can basically create any of the acoustic accordion sounds you would like. It takes a lot of time/patience/perseverance to achieve the "sound" you like. If you take the time, the end result is worth it. Again, this acoustic vs, digital accordion is a "touchy" topic -- "to each his own".

 

[Alan Sharkis]

I can't find a Roland V dealer in Chicago area. A dealer in Wisconsin sells an Excalibur digital accordion new for $4700, retail price $6900. Don't know anything about Excaliber, says its made in Italy, with real wooden keys. Is it worth looking at?

NO!

 

[Alan Sharkis]

I kind if agree with everything Jerry PH and Ventura had to say. Although editing virtual reeds can be done on an 8x using its little display window, the 4x’s window really isn’t equipped for that. But the 4x has some very capable editor software that is a free download from Roland’s website, as are the five or six manuals that go with the 4x. We can help with installing the editor software and interpreting the manuals if you need us. If I know who Jerry referenced with regard to a midi pedal for the 4x, and think I do, I can tell you that the individual in question is extremely knowledgeable and willing to share his knowledge and experience as well.

Good luck in your quest.

 

[davidplaysaccordion]

I wavered a lot before I sprung for my 4x.

For me, the biggest adjustment was accepting that is not an accordion but an electronic keyboard that you play like an accordion.
The skills all transfer but some you have to ‘adjust’ to.

Loads of pros. Great fun to play, lots of voices to play with not just accordion,
Midi and backing track ability built in, plug in headphones and play late at night without disturbing people, tweaks galor!
Cons. LOTS of configuration choices, takes time to learn them all. I find bellows shake almost impossible on the 4x. I was never any good at it anyway.
Need to charge (8x) or keep multiple sets of batteries charged and swap them (4x). Personally swapping batteries does not bother me.

The main concern for me, although I still bought my 4x new, is future support. Roland no longer make them (I think) and there is little zipper outside of sending back to Roland and even then, who knows if they will be able to fix things in a few years as spares run out. You can always restore a ‘real’ accordion but electronics typically has a limited shelf life. I suspect that at. Some pony we will all have expensive decorative doorstops but for now I am just enjoying it.

Hope that helps

 

[JerryPH]

If I know who Jerry referenced with regard to a midi pedal for the 4x, and think I do, I can tell you that the individual in question is extremely knowledgeable and willing to share his knowledge and experience as well.

Greg V. is a fountain of info and even has a new facebook group that is all about the technical side of the 8X and EVO. I've been asked if I would want to be a moderator, but my time is just so limited. I decided to be a participant... but if you are interested, here is the link:

Log in to Facebook

Log in to Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family and people you know.

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Join up, and ask away on anything 4X, 8X and EVO!

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Greg V. is a fountain of info and even has a new facebook group that is all about the technical side of the 8X and EVO. I've been asked if I would want to be a moderator, but my time is just so limited. I decided to be a participant... but if you are interested, here is the link:

Log in to Facebook

Log in to Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family and people you know.

www.facebook.com

Join up, and ask away on anything 4X, 8X and EVO!

As they said a few years ago, “Been there, done that.”

 

[Tom]

I can't find a Roland V dealer in Chicago area. A dealer in Wisconsin sells an Excalibur digital accordion new for $4700, retail price $6900. Don't know anything about Excaliber, says its made in Italy, with real wooden keys. Is it worth looking at?

Have you checked Kraft Music in Milwaukee? As far as I know they still sell the Dale Mathis edition Rolands.

"Ask David Hall at Kraft Music for details: 414-858-4055" (from Dale's website).

 

[Wheezer]

the 4x has a cool feature that let’s you select the left hand chord inversions. You can event select from several inversion patterns for it to cycle through .

 

[Thomas N]

The main concern for me, although I still bought my 4x new, is future support. Roland no longer make them (I think) and there is little zipper outside of sending back to Roland and even then, who knows if they will be able to fix things in a few years as spares run out. You can always restore a ‘real’ accordion but electronics typically has a limited shelf life. I suspect that at. Some pony we will all have expensive decorative doorstops but for now I am just enjoying it.

I've had my FR-8X since I bought it new in 2015. Eight years and I play it almost daily for an hour or two. I do not baby it - I play it with a lot of emphasis. I haven't had any issues with it other than the original battery is quite depleted now. I will order a new battery from Petosa pretty soon.

I wouldn't be too concerned with the 4X and longevity. These things are made well and really stand up to heavy usage.

 

[John M]

My 8X has also been very reliable. I would sure be lost without it. Additional note that Jerry mentioned some time ago:
Although, the manual says you can do it., don't have the 8X in the "ON" mode and have the battery charging at the same time. This is the maximum load on the 8X power supply with the possibility of damaging it. Why do it if you don't have to. Give the supply a break and reduce part of it's current load.

 

[JerryPH]

That advice came from the original old Yahoo forums where several people had their power board blow and supported by our very own JimD's supporting statements and experiences.

 

[Tom]

I’m not like Jerry and the rest of you out there that really take advantage of the Roland. I’m happy to find voices (user program) I like and just play it. For me, since I have yet to build my dedicated man cave, it’s all about the headphones are worth their weight in lithium.

 

[JerryPH]

Definitely a lot of advantages to a digital instrument, and most certainly it is a lot of fun even just experimenting!

 

[John M]

I’m not like Jerry and the rest of you out there that really take advantage of the Roland. I’m happy to find voices (user program) I like and just play it. For me, since I have yet to build my dedicated man cave, it’s all about the headphones are worth their weight in lithium.

If and when you get the time, to "dig in" to some of the Musette tunings and also the MFX (Multi Effects Edits) --Software Equalizer adjustments, etc., you will be amazed at the "hooks" that Roland left into their software.
Of course, this is not for everyone, but I love to try out different tone settings.
Be sure to do a "Back Up" of your accordion, so if you don't like a change you made, you can always go back to your original settings.