Considering going shopping....Hohner, Sonola or....?

[Zakkala]

Morning! I'm idly considering another accordion purchase and doing some preliminary online browsing and research.

I currently have an 80 bass Galotta and a 120 bass Soprani di Silvio. Also have a 48 bass Balle, but the less said about that one the better!

Before I consider visiting shops and risk making an actual purchase, I was wondering if anyone has any info or opinions on Hohner Verdi VCB or Sonola R461 models? When were they manufactured, quality, personal feedback etc. Or suggestions of any similar makes or models I might want to look at. While the decision is always a personal one, depending on how an instrument feels and sounds, I value the opinions of folk with more knowledge, experience and talent than me!

I'm after 120 bass, probably musette tuned, more coupler options than my Silvio (5 treble, 2 bass) and I'm looking at secondhand only as I'm nowhere near good enough to buy new

 

[debra]

I only know about the Hohner Verdi VCB. According to the list this was made in 1987, but a period around this date is also possible.
The CB stands for "cassotto im bass" which actually means that it has a Winkelbaß (lowest bass octave mounted at a 90 degree angle), which improves the bass sound.
The Verdi is in my opinion the best model in its class, meaning the lower end (below Pacific, Morino and then Gola) with a wooden body. It has a nice sound, is LMMM where you have a choice between M and MMM only (no MM register). My wife played a Verdi V (without CB) for many years. It was a nice accordion in that class of instruments.

 

[Zakkala]

Thanks Paul, that's really helpful - appreciate the first hand feedback. Now I just need to find someone that knows the Sonola!

 

[Caps]

I have a Sonola SS-15 custom deluxe. Very nice strolling accordion. 4/5 LMMH. Made very well and has held up well for over 50 years. It was purchased new in 1961. Most of the Sonolas are decent once you get above the student models. If you can find one of the SS-5, 10,15 or 20 models that's in good shape I don't think you will be disappointed. I've seen a lot of the Rivoli model advertised on EBay but I really don't know much about them. Maybe someone else is familiar with them and will comment. The only issue I ever had was the internal (optional) microphones. They were the old silver dollar ones and were held in with glued in foam pads that rotted over time. I removed them (actually, to be accurate Ventura, a fellow poster on here), removed them for me about 15 years ago and I have never missed them. The wire through the bellows to the mics on the bass side was also dry rotted and removed. I did have the wax touched up about 10 years ago but that was just preventive maintenance. Remarkably, it has never gone out of tune at all. Back then, when you purchased one of these, unless you got a student model, you ordered it and had to specify the type and configuration of reeds, mics or no, cassoto or no, mussette tuning and how much. Then you waited and waited and waited. So the result is that you will find the same model with many different configurations internally. You have to see it and try it in order to see if it is what you want. I suspect most of the other major accordion brands are the same.

 

[debra]

I have a Sonola SS-15 custom deluxe. Very nice strolling accordion. 4/5 LMMH. ...
Remarkably, it has never gone out of tune at all. ...

The exact model is important. The OP asked specifically about a Sonola R461. I'm not familiar with that model so I cannot comment. Every model is different. A Skoda Fabia cannot be compared to a Skoda Superb, nor can Ford Fiesta be compared to a Ford Mustang... I still have an old 40 bass Crucianelli accordion. It's a nice very small box, but how good it is is something that an owner of a Baton, 4 voice with cassotto, cannot really say...
I regularly hear/read from people saying their accordion "has never gone out of tune at all". It is a myth that there exist (acoustic) accordions that never go out of tune. But accordions go more and more out of tune at a very slow rate and the owner/player gets used to the sound it has and may not notice that it slowly goes more and more out of tune. I know people with accordions that had not been tuned for over 30 years and they still thought that everything was still sounding "in tune". One of them was even a professionally trained accordion teacher.

 

[Jibberin]

I would also consider the Elka412 and Galanti. I did notice a Ranco Supervox that sold on eBay the other week for £625. Hand made reeds and a top notch musette. The previously mentioned instruments come up from time to time at auction houses, eBay,gumtree etc.
Good luck

 

[Tom]

I've seen a lot of the Rivoli model advertised on EBay but I really don't know much about them. Maybe someone else is familiar with them and will comment.

I'm quite sure I've posted a Rivoli repair or two on here in the deep dark past. They are a nice, non professional model. A good choice of that is your budget, imho. Good looking too. Workhorse like the Verdi.

 

[Caps]

The exact model is important. The OP asked specifically about a Sonola R461. I'm not familiar with that model so I cannot comment. Every model is different. A Skoda Fabia cannot be compared to a Skoda Superb, nor can Ford Fiesta be compared to a Ford Mustang... I still have an old 40 bass Crucianelli accordion. It's a nice very small box, but how good it is is something that an owner of a Baton, 4 voice with cassotto, cannot really say...
I regularly hear/read from people saying their accordion "has never gone out of tune at all". It is a myth that there exist (acoustic) accordions that never go out of tune. But accordions go more and more out of tune at a very slow rate and the owner/player gets used to the sound it has and may not notice that it slowly goes more and more out of tune. I know people with accordions that had not been tuned for over 30 years and they still thought that everything was still sounding "in tune". One of them was even a professionally trained accordion teacher.

Yes that is what I have always believed and I do check my tuning occasionally with a strobotuner. I suppose it was a bit of exaggeration to say never at all. When I had the wax touched up last time a couple reeds did move a bit as a result - I had forgotten that. I do have the electronic test equipment to check it accurately. My ear is not good enough. Actually, I have way more electronic test equipment than my wife approves of. (50+ years of HAM radio and SSB Radio repair) For fun once I even set up a way to check my strobotuner against the National Bureau of Standards WWV signal. Kind of of a waste of time but a fun class project. I have had several other accordions (Galanti, Salantii, Pancordion, Chordovox,, Excelsior, Midivox, Stratavari,) and a few others and they have all wandered off tune over time, some considerably, but for some unknown reason, the Sonola just seems to hold constant enough that it is not worth opening it up. Yes, it is an anomaly but I'm not complaining.

 

[Zakkala]

Thanks to everyone for all the info - much appreciated.

 

[Javthedog]

Off the point....but I'm mildly curious to know where you'll be shopping.....

 

[Ventura]

regarding old Sonola's

here in the eastern USA, they simply seldom come available, as
everyone who is lucky enough to have one,
well they keep it till they die pretty much

when you DO run across one, bear in mind these, more than most,
were used by Pro's who made a living playing accordion, strolling
nightly for hours and hours, so they have literally played the snot
out of them and there may not be much left in one except for light use

the models were ALL built to a really high standard.. there were no dogs..
i have never heard a Pro complain about a Sonola - ever - so ANY
model that becomes available and is decent condition will be a joy
to own period, and if you like it's sound and have the chance,
just buy it.. you will never be sorry

that does not translate to Rivoli models.. while nice boxes they
are no more similar to a Sonola in quality or construction than
any other student line of accordions, but if you find a good one
it is a safe bet it will be nice to play

the Regina line , also from Sonola, were Rivoli level builds but i believe
had better reeds.. the Regina nameplate is occasionally found in the wild

Cappy's Sonola is just sweet.. as soon as you hear the reeds you go
OOOOhhhhhhhhhhh nice !!!!!!!!

 

[Zakkala]

Off the point....but I'm mildly curious to know where you'll be shopping.....

I had a long session of on-line window shopping and then went down to Allodi Accordions in London. By the time I went down there I'd completely changed my mind about what I wanted and came back with a 72 bass Excelsior that I absolutely love. And a B/C Melodeon. Which is also fun

 

[losthobos]

Emilio Allodi never sells a lie .... Enjoy

 

[Javthedog]

As a complete novice, good to hear positive comments about different dealers. Thanks