Which Maugein model do I have?

[Philh4955]

I have a Maugein C-system accordion I would like to work out which model it is if possible and wonder whether anyone can help.

It has a number 817-61E220 but I am unsure as to the significance of that. As you can see in the picture it is a 5-row (52 notes) and 120 bass. The treble is, I think, 3 voice plus cassotto (single?) and has 6 couplers (3 with cassotto 3 without). The bass has 2 registers (4 voice?)

The accordion originated from Scotland and I think is probably about 20 years old - but that may be way out!

Any help gratefully received.

 

[maugein96]

Hi,

Your box is a Résonance 3 - Octavia 120. The 3 stands for 3 voice, and Résonance means "cassotto". Octavia means that it does not have three voice musette tuning (it is an LMM, so cannot have that tuning).

Unfortunately I cannot work out the significance of the serial number. I contacted Maugein years ago in an effort to get a year of manufacture for mine and they never replied.

I have the smaller "Mini Sonora" 96 bass model, but everything else is the same.

Your treble couplers should be (from top to bottom :- Master, bassoon, bandoneon, MM (more about that later), flute, and a repeat of the master.

If the box still has it's factory tuning your MM register should be "americain", which means the sharp flutes will be between 6-8 cents sharp, but you mentioned the word "Scotland", so I wouldn't mind betting that it could be a fair bit sharper than that.

I've had mine for about 20 years and it is a solidly built instrument. The only thing it has needed was a re-tune and some leather valves replaced.

You'll probably feel that the box has a decidedly "folky" sound to it, especially when you are on the master coupler. These boxes are sought after in the Auvergne and Limousin, as they were made to play the local music in that area. Having said that, with decent "americain" or even swing tuning they are very useful tools for the French musette repertoire. The reeds in mine are superb, although the box is a bit on the "bright" side.

At a guess that box looks to be about from the 1990s. The serial number would be the clue, but I've tried asking people on French forums about how the serial numbers work, and nobody could tell me.

Basically, if you were looking for a good French box then you've found a beauty, but a French box it is, and it won't be very good at Scottish or any other type of musette style. They are a bit on the heavy side for an LMM, but not too bad.

The late Jimmy Clinkscale was the only Scottish importer of the Maugein make, and I do believe I saw that box, or one very like it for sale in his shop for £2200 in the early 90s. At that time it had very nice americain tuning, but I just couldn't afford it. New price probably starts around £8000 these days, but you'll be lucky to get £1500 for it in the UK if you want to move it on. Maugein boxes are very rare in the UK, but they seldom attract much interest. The one I currently have was circulating at accordion events for a few years before a friend of mine told me about it and I bought it for £3000 from a now defunct shop in West Yorkshire, round about 1998.

The single cassotto is present in all registers except the clarinet (flute) and the MM.

 

[maugein96]

Further to my last post, here is a current advert for the model you have. The list price is 10,580 Euros, but most new boxes for sale in France appear to attract a discount of about 10%.

The model you have would actually be more expensive than that, as the basic offering is a 4 row box without mirrored buttons, and the spangled paint job. The bellows may also have a funky design on them when opened out, and that would have been extra as well. If the basses are arranged 4/2 (more usual for a UK import) rather than 3/3, that would attract a further premium.

Ive seen these advertised in France, and they usually retail for about 2,500 Euros, fully tuned and refurbed. The difference between new and used is pretty horrific, and Id personally never buy a new one. You dont say what your intention is with the box, and I obviously dont know what you paid for it. The prices quoted are purely a guide as to what to expect. The box is a professional standard instrument, and would realise a better price in France than the UK, but probably wouldnt justify a trip there for that purpose. The boxes are common enough in France to keep used prices down. Also, if it has a 4/2 bass arrangement, that could affect its sale price on the other side of the Canal.

They are up there amongst the highest quality instruments made in France, and the design hasnt changed much over the last 30 years or so. You wont see many big name modern pro players using them. Maugein are probably better known for the Amusette model, which is identical in appearance to yours, but is MMM with musette pur three voice musette tuning. The Maugein range has never been the most exciting on offer, but I see they must have had another cash injection from somewhere (possibly the local government to keep the jobs going), and they are currently offering a (slightly) altered range in their catalogue. Not sure about those zany colours, but I wish them well. Even way back in the 50s and 60s their instruments were more functional than aesthetic. Cavagnolo have always surpassed them for being cool, even with those boxes they made featuring awful desert island designs on them.

http://www.franceaccordeon.com/vent...is_antony_patrick_quichaud_danielle_pauly.htm

https://www.accordeons-maugein.com/en/catalogue-chromatique-piano/

 

[Philh4955]

Thanks Maugein96 for a very comprehensive and informative reply!

I bought it about 6 years ago on eBay to see if I could learn to play a button accordion. Unfortunately I have lost the details of the seller but I remember collecting it from the Scottish Borders - I think Melrose area. I believe he was a pro player in that area. The only other clue to its origin is that it has a midi system on the bass side which was supplied by John Douglas Music, Dumfries. I guess they probably sold the accordion so I may contact them to see if they have records of it.

Having a good quality box to learn on I think helped and, even with little time for practice, I have made progress and do enjoy playing it. However I find it quite heavy so will probably look to sell it in the near future and find a lighter box. I may go for a 4 row although that may be a mistake having got used to 5 rows!

 

[Philh4955]

Have just found my missing paperwork. When you mentioned Jimmy Clinkscale you were spot on Maugein96. The box was bought from Jackie Kerr who I believe was their manager at Clinkscale Radio & Musical Ltd.

 

[maugein96]

Hello again,

I now live in Hawick, but was living in either Edinburgh or Linlithgow when that box was in Jimmy Clinkscale's shop, which was in Melrose at that time.

I never got into the Scottish accordion scene at all. It just isn't my bag, so consequently I don't know the names of many professional players in this area. Only "pro" CBA player I can think of is Bob Liddle from Kelso, who has made several CDs. He likes French musette and I know he was looking for a French box maybe 10 years ago. Jimmy Clinkscale's son also does a bit of selling from his home address in Melrose, but I don't know him personally. I probably have met Jackie Kerr, but cannot put a face to the name, unless he was a shortish chap with reddish hair.

Old French boxes with tone chambers do tend to weigh a ton. I have an old Cavagnolo Vedette 5 LMM with 58 treble notes, and I think it weighs in about 28 lbs. The Maugein Mini Sonora is also about 24 lbs, even although it is about 3/4 size (49 treble notes and 96 bass).

John Douglas Music recently moved to bigger premises in Dumfries, but I've never dealt with them. They usually have a handful of CBAs in stock, but Scottish tuning and I don't agree with each other. They have had a used SEM Galant (Piermaria) 4 row digital box (Ciao electrics) in stock for several years, and the price has dropped by about 30% recently. I don't know anything about digital boxes or midi, and probably never will, but it might be worth considering if you're looking for a "lightweight". Scottish players don't like 4 row boxes (they're even called "5 row chromatics" up here), otherwise I think they may have had a buyer for it by now. If you're used to a 5 row it may be as well to stick with 5 rows, depending on how much use you make of row 5. I never use it at all, and to me it's just more unnecessary weight on the box.

I recently "signed up" for lessons to improve my reading and left hand and my Scottish CBA teacher does tend to like to go "inside" to that 5th row at times. I just cannot cope with it and he plays his way and I play mine on the outside 4 rows. I'm also constantly getting told off for resting my thumb on the edge of the treble keyboard when I'm not using it, but a 30 odd year old habit is hard to break.

Anyway, you've already discovered the pros and cons of the French accordion. With the reeds pinned on cork they do have a metallic ring to them that not everybody appreciates, and even if your MM reeds are quite widely spaced in tuning that "French" sound is still there, whether you like it or not. Selling it on might take a while, but the box is a top of the range professional model, and you never know who might be interested. The treble keyboard on mine is very quick, but the slightly high button travel is set up for the typical staccato French playing style. My Cavagnolo keyboard is like butter in comparison, and somewhere in between would probably suit me better. The Cava is very well used and I could probably do with new reeds in it. I'm not a pro player, so I suppose I'm not really the best person to be critical of one box over another, but we all like to complain about what we have at times, even if they are top of the range instruments. Is there a perfect box out there? In my case, I doubt it!

Incidentally, the bass side is 4 voice, which may lack some presence for the styles you play.

 

[Philh4955]

Having been told by the previous owner it was a cassotto box have now been told by a dealer in France that ‘c'est un système à peigne’
Not sure whether this is significantly different but apparently Maugein is one of a few to use it

 

[maugein96]

Phil,

I obviously got the model of your accordion wrong, and it actually must be older than it looked in the photo. I should have got you check the inside before I was so bold as to try and identify it from an external photograph only. A little knowledge etc.

Several makers of accordions supplied to the French market used peigne arriere, although it is beyond my technical knowledge to explain it in any detail. As far as I know the system is no longer used in accordion construction, but will be familiar enough to French repairers of any experience. I wouldn't have believed any like that would have ended up in the UK, but unfortunately I've been proved wrong (again). The system is also rare in 3 voice models, which yours apparently is? No wonder you found it to be heavy, as the peigne arriere will account for a fair bit of that.

I'm very much aware that lack of a tone chamber may have a bearing on any trade in price you were hoping to achieve, and all I can say is that I'm sorry if you're having trouble trading in the box because of the peigne arriere. The external design of Cavagnolo and Maugein boxes has changed little over the last 40-50 years. I used the current Maugein catalogue to identify the box, and that is something I'll never do again.

Although I've never owned a box with peigne arriere or even seen one opened up, I've read that the system is more labour intensive to work on due to the additional levers and valves it consists of. Some people say that any advantages the system offers are negated by its lack of reliability in operation, but I have no practical experience of such situations.

Has the dealer actually declined to take the box as a trade in because of its configuration? You may have to accept a reduced valuation if they do take it, but many dealers still have them for sale.

 

[Philh4955]

I also made a mistake with the voices - sorry. He got me to send pictures of the reeds. It is actually 4 voice LMMM (its getting heavier by the minute!)

He hasn’t refused it but is giving a low valuation as a trade in against one I’m thinking about.

 

[maugein96]

Phil,

Only guy on here who seems to regularly see French boxes in the flesh is Geoff de Limousin, who uses that as his user name. He lives in Limousin, although has previously lived in England and Ireland.

If it's possible, try and drop him a PM from the forum and ask him if he can shed any light on whether the price you're being offered is realistic. You may have unwittingly become involved in a situation where the dealer thought you were trying to pass off the peigne arriere as a better model (partially thanks to me), and he's making you an artificially low offer. That may not be true, but you never know.

Above all, don't rush it. Sometimes if you just walk away you might get a better deal. However, the dealer knows you are only there on a short visit and time is on his side.

If you want, give me the model name (if you now know what it is), and I'll search the French web to see if I can find one for sale. I'm sure repairs in France are pretty expensive, and they might need to put a fair bit of hours into preparing your trade in for sale. You need to offset that against what you thought it may have been worth.

Best of luck, and not many of us would have the bottle to try and sell sand to a Bedouin.

 

[maugein96]

Hello again,

Sorry, thought you were actually there at the gallows, Euros or card in hand!

Its really difficult to know what a fair price is, and prices in France tend to vary by region. If I was buying Id be looking in the Nord region, as the dealers dont seem to be bothered if all the boxes are in showroom condition. Prices in Paris are obviously a fair bit higher, but not the highest Ive seen.

Cosmetic condition of the accordion does play a part and I noticed that JJ accordeons only seems to sell the prettier ones. He maybe has a cousin in the north to sell the ugly ones for him!

I had a brief look on the web and saw this Cavagnolo 12 with peigne arriere for sale in a Swiss music shop for the equivalent of about £1800.

https://www.boullard.ch/produit/acc...e-blanc-marbre-4-voix-avec-piccolo-120-basses

Thats a pretty upmarket model with a lot of bells and whistles for not a lot of cash at all, but I wouldnt like to drop it on my toe! Again, it is dangerous to use a photo to assess the condition of an accordion, but it looks as though its still in good nick. Accordion prices in Switzerland tend to be cheaper than in France, but it would probably cost you the price of a Saltarelle for a night in a hotel there, providing you bought your meals and drinks elsewhere.

I would doubt very much whether many French retailers would offer you much more than about £1000 as a trade in for your Maugein, depending on your intended purchase.

Best ask Geoff if he knows the lowdown on the situation with peigne arriere boxes with French dealers.

Regardless of any criticism they may attract, check this one out (now sold) same model, but look at the price, compared with the Swiss one.

https://www.mon-accordeon.com/occasion/s0176-cavagnolo-professionnel-12
OK I know they arent Maugeins, but they are just to Illustrate that they are still saleable and indeed sought after by some.

Im going to put a post on about the register combinations on that one as I dont quite understand what they mean.

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

Well,
I am not sure if Peigne Arrière does add any more weight than a single Cassoto. I have currently three CBA's with this system for the Basson voice, I'd like to weigh them and post the results but my scales appear to be working incorrectly this year.. Hmmmm.... they were fine before Christmas!

I am not sure when this system was discontinued but I have doubts that it was due to any unreliablilites, even though it can be complex to repair and adjust. My newest accordion with the peigne arrière was made in 1949 and the other two date from 1929 and 1931. They all work well but lack the facility of selecting Basson only. The best version was made by Marzella , apparently, and he used small screw jacks on the opperating rods so as to fine adjust the actuation... like setting the tappets on an engine. An almost zero gap between the operating rod and the valve lever allows the basson to start exactly with the other voices. My friend bought a Marzella and sent it to a specialist restorer of old accordions , he spent about €2000 on the restoration... he now hopes to get that money back by selling it..... I doubt he will though.

The problem with secondhand accordion values , in France, is due to a flooded market and it is only the stubborness of most sellers that keeps the advertised prices looking healthy. Even good dealers cannot sell if their prices are not very reasonable. I see very nice instruments that have been on sale for several years. Fashions have definately changed and low weight is king. It is an aging player population too. The last time I bought an accordion from a dealer, he said just that, the lower the weigh the higher the price... I bought the lightest LMM he had and a quick perusal of his stock list shows he has not sold any of the heavier models in the last 14 months.

My 1949 LMMM 120 bass with peigne action came restored/ tuned from a very respected dealer for €1750 about 4 years ago... a rare( french) make in full playing order.

 

[maugein96]

Geoff,

Trouble with we foreigners is we latch onto something we read and if we have no actual experience of the matter we(I) often just take it at face value.

I seem to remember I read somewhere that a double peigne arriere added about a kilo in weight, and I believed it. Yet I read another article about some guy walking on water and never believed that at all. You'd think I'd have learned by now. I mean he couldn't have walked on water, as sandals aren't watertight! I threw that book away, as it was full of stories like that.

I've never bought an accordion in France, but have maintained an interest in retail values there since the internet became available. French accordions are pretty rare beasts over here these days, yet every now and again our market is flooded with two or three of them at the same time.