What was the intended market for two voice -120 bass?

[Terry]

My only accordion is a smallish two voice/41 treble/120 bass.

It seems kind of odd to me to make a 120 bass with only two voices (L/M I guess)

Who was the intended market?...and what style of music is appropriate for a two voice accordion?

 

[JIM D.]

In the 50's to 70's the so called "Golden Age Of The Accordion" an affordable accordion model of 120 bass 41 treble key format was needed for the beginning student. There were very many made in the US, Germany and Italy for just such a purpose. These were made with 16" 17" and 18" keyboards and only two sets of treble reeds and four sets of bass. Many of these were well made such as the Italian Victoria (Titano), PANcordion (Crucianelli), Excelcior (Accordiana), Sonola and Giulietti accordions and are still in use today for instruction. Having only two sets of reeds is really not a serious limitation as most jazz accordionists such as Art Van Damme only use the one set of (L) or bassoon reeds in all their performances. Musically yours; JIM D.

 

[Adam-T]

They were "Ladies" models as they were lighter and often had a narrower key pitch - slender women got to have 42 notes and 120 basses without needing traction after wrestling with a 4 voice beast .......

 

[smdc66]

wouldnt the italian ones have a tremolo option though (mm) generally ?

 

[JIM D.]

98% of Italian made accordions imported to the US from the 50's to the 90's were ordered Dry Tuned that is a two reed model would be L/M a three reed would be L/M/H and only the four reed models would have L/M/M/H. Also there is a standard nomenclature here in the US and Canada for PA accordion sizes -- Accordions with 19" keyboards are called MAN'S -- 18" keyboards are called LADIES -- and keyboards of 16" and 17" are called STUDENT MODEL, JIM D.

 

[Adam-T]

wouldnt the italian ones have a tremolo option though (mm) generally ?

Most of the ones I`ve seen were 2 coupler - LM Tuned sadly . there must be MM Ones out there but I`ve not seen them .......... Hohner on the other hand specialized in Trem MM tuned boxes, their light 120 bass 2 voice (Carena) isn`t as compact or well made as the Italians of the same era but at least it SOUNDS good !!

 

[Terry]

Thanks for the info everyone.

I really like the size and weight of mine. The 17" keyboard is actually a good size for me and 16 lbs. is a nice (almost) comfortable weight.

Mine only has two settings - L/M and M

At this point, the perfect accordion for me would be something almost identical to this but M/M...unfortunately, based on prior comments, it looks like I might have a long search for such a thing.

 

[Adam-T]

I had a Superb Calvi Parma Ladies model with the narrow gauge keys as a "PA in case I need it" and it didn`t do my shoulder issue any harm but being LM killed it , if it had been wet tuned MM, I`d still have it now - the Hohner Arietta isn`t anywhere near as well made (also it`s 34/72 and not 42/120) or as refined to play but it sounds to my Tremelo loving ears infinately better due to the reed config .....

 

[Soulsaver]

At this point, the perfect accordion for me would be something almost identical to this but M/M...unfortunately, based on prior comments, it looks like I might have a long search for such a thing.

No, keep your eyes on ebay - they do come around.
I have a Hohner Carmen III M 120 bass, LMM 41 key 17 board. 17lbs lovely condition, lovely musette tone.
And a shame youre in US as I plan to sell it because I dont like switching between it and my other (7)full sizes, as I end up between keys for a while. And its hard enough learning accurate fingering without mixing distances between the keys..

 

[Puxto]

This has cleared up a few questions, and is really pleasing for me. I have a restored 40's Italian Bell, a beautifully ornate light 2 voice. Have had it a few years and been wondering about this recently, so its nice to confirm my suspicions. As I know there are some experts here, out of interest is something like that worth much? I love it and wouldn't sell it so I'm not concerned in that respect but have always been curious, has great value to me as its a beautifully crafted thing, with a feeling of quality unlike any other box I've tried. It has a serial number too, anyone know if could I find out anything more from that about its history? {} :ch

 

[goldtopia]

At seventy a 72 bass is as heavy as I can manage. I don't often play 3 voice because I mostly use the 2 voice. To get a few extra buttons and to save a bit of weight I have ordered an 80 bass 2 voice Pigliacampo. I guess a 120 bass, 2 voice is for the same reason and to save weight.

 

[Soulsaver]

I have a restored 40s Italian Bell, a beautifully ornate light 2 voice. Have had it a few years and been wondering about this recently, so its nice to confirm my suspicions. As I know there are some experts here, out of interest is something like that worth much? I love it and wouldnt sell it so Im not concerned in that respect but have always been curious, has great value to me as its a beautifully crafted thing, with a feeling of quality unlike any other box Ive tried. It has a serial number too, anyone know if could I find out anything more from that about its history? {} :ch

From the serial, I believe Hohner can often provide the year of manufacture, model & configuration when it left the factory... for a small fee.
Serial numbers on Italian boxes are generally little use in my, admittedly limited experience, especially if more than 20 -30 years old. Ive tried a couple of times to get the history but even Scandalli have no historical records they say; probably down to rationalisation in the industry and little value in storing historical records.
Value wise, generally significantly pre war boxes dont appear to be sought after although there may be the odd historical exception. I know of a couple of pre war German models that could be valuable, JimD is probably deMan for Bell. A pic would help, too. The highly decorated ones can have some ornamental value..

 

[JIM D.]

Hi Puxto; Bell made accordions here in the US in the 40's and 50's. Are you sure yours is Italian ???

 

[Adam-T]

In the UK , Bell was a dealer and put their name as a Logo on a few accordions (as well as their sticker underneath on OEM badged ones such as Hohner etc) , From the instruments I`ve seen, they badged mostly East German ones made in the Harmona (Weltmeister) factory but I`m sure I`ve seen a couple of Italian ones with their name on too, maybe these are the USA ones ? .

I`m pretty sure this is an Italian one - possibly for the USA company ?

http://www.accordiongallery.com/bell-symphony

This is a UK dealer Weltmeister re-badge

http://www.arthurjohnson.co.uk/Catimages/0494/A806.jpg

 

[Soulsaver]

Yep Bell of Surbiton was a big dealer in the '50s & '60s. I've got one (a tag) on a Hohner from then, and I see quite a few on my searches...

 

[JIM D.]

Yes the Bell - Symphony pictured here is Italian and was imported by the US Bell firm in the 60's. It's also listed in the post "Which Are The Great Acoustic Piano Accordions" under Bell model 2520 and a true classic !!! JIM D.

 

[Puxto]

Thanks for the general input folks. Am guessing something like this is pretty common, as Ive seen many similar looking things going cheap, but I find it fascinating to discover anything about it..

Are you sure yours is Italian ???

Cant be certain.. I only know its a bell from the little serial plate on the back, as the front of it says Estrella. But it says Italia faintly engraved, (was probaby originaly painted too) on the bass side just between the buttons and the bellows. Also The bass machine (from what I can gather) is a type apparently often used in italian boxes (I read this somewhere? it has rods with spatula type ends apparently, bit squeeky but robust!).
Actually I dont even know for certain if its 40s but someone gave an educated guess and seemed to think so, and that seems about right based on the look of it.
A random oddity, is in the bass buttons. The very bottom row with the root note A, is up on the top end, as if the whole thing has been shifted along one, so every note is one space down from where it would usually be...
Im sure its nothing special really but will try and get a pic up anyway, its a very pretty thing, both in looks and sound :ch

 

[Puxto]

Ah! it worked, there we go.. The coupler is on the back of the keyboard in case anyones wondering. Can just make out Italia above the buttons, looks like it would once have been white like the lettering above..

And apologies for hijacking this thread somewhat

 

[Puxto]

 

[Puxto]

Whether of monetary value or not, there's something to be said for old craftsmanship, this was built to last. When it first arrived (Ebay, random punt £53 !! Felt like I'd stolen it, as someone has spent a lot restoring it at some point) To my horror the woman who'd sent it not knowing about accordions had carefully (so she thought) wrapped a towel around it tightly, pushing in most of the bass buttons and mashing up the mechanism. Much to my surprise with some very carefull untangling and with the assistance of a friend, we managed to save it. And I have never had any problems at all with it since, I used to be terribly precious about it, but having put it through its paces over the last few years, its turned out to be extremely robust. They really knew what they were doing back then {}