what is the biggest bass jump?

[george garside]

i don't think in terms of names of notes or do re mi when playing as there is or should be no time so to do!

the concious ''mental image'' , if any, is of the sound of the melody . The bass is something on the lines of a progressive development thereof. i.e. start with a fairly simple bass accompaniment and then experiment with variation and additions thereto. The more you do that the easier and quicker it becomes to 'busk in' appropriate bass.

george

 

[donn]

Ah. Maybe. It's interesting to see that in your (Paul) case do-re-mi is so tied to pitches, because I think it's sometimes taught as a movable scale system - unlike the letter system, where C is C (unless you go into band, as many young people do, and learn clarinet, saxophone or trumpet, where C is Bb.)

It strikes me that not only are we all perhaps wired different, we also bring very different musical experience to the problem. I'd been playing other instruments for decades, including guitar which is strong on chords and intervals, but my first real performance act was voice - including reading music, which for singers does depend on "ear". Others may have never done much but occasionally whistle a tune. There's probably something to be said for trying some of these things, when the accordion isn't making sense. Do some do-re-mi drills, get a cheap guitar and learn some chords, learn to sing from the page. In the present case, where it's about the Stradella system, I guess the guitar would be the featured option.

For me, bass might be a little more central than it is for others, as someone who has usually played that part. I can hardly put my right hand to the accordion without the left, and the melodies often seem in a way more of an elaborate ornament added to the bass that's the heart of the music. It grieves me considerably when I run into someone who really does think you can play most tunes with only the three V, I, IV chords.

 

[debra]

i dont think in terms of names of notes or do re mi when playing as there is or should be no time so to do!
...

Trust me, there is time to think in terms of names of notes while playing or listening, no matter how fast it goes. (It even works with the flight of the bumblebee.) It is a matter of getting it completely mentally hardwired since childhood. And you cannot undo that wiring either...
The do-re-mi system is often called a movable system, but for people with perfect pitch or absolute pitch (or whatever you call it) it is not movable or transposable. I can walk into a room, someone can hit any key on the piano and I will know which note it is, never wrong. It can be a blessing but also a curse.

 

[JerryPH]

Trust me, there is time to think in terms of names of notes while playing or listening, no matter how fast it goes. (It even works with the flight of the bumblebee.) It is a matter of getting it completely mentally hardwired since childhood. And you cannot undo that wiring either...

Not only that. My lady hears words, she remembers books, poems, data or most important to this thread, lyrics from things she has read, sung or heard 30 years or more ago, but for me, when I hear music, I dont hear the words, but I see the actual musical notation in my head, so not only is there time to think of the notes, but create and see the musical score in my head for at least one of the instruments.

Maybe that is why I cannot talk or sing while playing, my brain is too busy recreating the music for me to see and for my hands to sort of go where they are supposed to on the keyboard, mostly in auto mode while playing... lol

Damn, I am one weirdly wired guy! :lol:

 

[JeffJetton]

The do-re-mi system is often called a movable system

Its taught and used as both moveable and fixed. It basically depends on what part of the world youre in.

In English-speaking and German-speaking parts of the world, we typically think of it as moveable. That is, do doesnt always mean C. It means the first scale degree of whatever key youre in. It has nothing to do with whether you have perfect pitch or not, since theres no mental dissonance in calling, say, F do... as long as youre in the key of F. Its more like calling it one (which is actually what we do here in Nashville, by the way).

Elsewhere, such as France and (presumably, based on Pauls posts) in the Netherlands, do is specifically another name for C, no matter what key youre in. I remember that throwing me initially when I started acquiring French accordion sheet music (but thats fa, not do! Id think to myself), but I got used to it eventually!

Another difference in the two systems is how they treat sharps and flats. In fixed-do, you just stick the sharp or flat on there, as in fa-sharp or mi-flat. In movable do, since these are thought of more as alterations to the parent scale, they actually get slightly different names. A flattened 3rd scale degree would be me (pronounced may) for example.

Moveable-do will also usually call the 7th degree ti instead of si.

None of which is news to anyone whos familiar with this (which, for the record, is in the key of Bb)...

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[donn]

Interesting, I had no idea do-re-mi was such a complex business. Theres a fair bit about it in the wikipedia Solfège article. On learning fixed vs. movable, I see this:

Sotorrio argues that fixed-do is preferable for serious musicians, as music involving complex modulations and vague tonality is often too ambiguous with regard to key for any movable system. That is, without a prior analysis of the music, any movable-do system would inevitably need to be used like a fixed-do system anyway, thus causing confusion. With fixed-do, the musician learns to regard any syllable as the tonic, which does not force them to make an analysis as to which note is the tonic when ambiguity occurs. Instead, with fixed-do the musician will already be practiced in thinking in multiple/undetermined tonalities using the corresponding syllables.

Which I think makes sense to me, at any rate the analytical problem sure does. There are lots of places in very ordinary tunes I know, where the chords fall out of the nominal key for a moment - maybe theres a dominant 7 where there should be a minor, for example - and it sounds fine, but Im real glad I dont have puzzle out the theory underneath it in order to play.

 

[debra]

Coming back to the topic... many accordions have at least Ab, C and E marked, sometimes with the exact same dimple. Having absolute pitch helps to quickly realize which of these marked notes is C so you know where to start. Unfortunately the absolute position of this C on a 120 bass side is not standard so when moving from one accordion to the next you have to be careful. (It is especially different between convertor and non-convertor instruments.) Some accordions have every fourth base note marked which makes it even harder to find where C is. But when you can hear it... no problem.
In most cases large bass jumps are made easier by having these marked notes. You do not only feel the note you want to play when you jump but also notes around it, so even when you don't play the note that is marked you can feel where that is and move your finger position accordingly.

 

[pentaprism]

I don't know what the biggest bass jump is....

But I've been using a Roland V-Accordion with Roland BK-7m to practice bass jump, a few minutes a day. The BK-7m shows the name of the chord on its LCD screen, providing me with an instant feedback.

 

[Geronimo]

I dont know what the biggest bass jump is....

But Ive been using a Roland V-Accordion with Roland BK-7m to practice bass jump, a few minutes a day. The BK-7m shows the name of the chord on its LCD screen, providing me with an instant feedback.

Well, arguably an acoustic accordion provides instant feedback as well... less absolute though. Which reminds me that my old MS40 arranger also has a chord display you can enable: that might be interesting for checking up on combined chords.