Traditional Irish music on the C-System CBA

[Seisiuneer]

Along with playing Anglo Concertina and B/C diatonic box, I became absolute enamoured with the C-System chromatic button accordion about a year ago after a friend loaned me one for a week.

Originally, I had zero intention of playing any traditional Irish music on it, focused mostly on French and Russian melodeon tunes, but as time went on, I started playing some simple Kerry polkas on it, and as an fingering exercise, as I’ll often do with a new instrument, I started working through every single tune in the "Smoke in Your Eyes" Seattle Irish tunebook, just completed the reels tonight.

What I found is that the standard fingering charts and methodology one can find on-line and in various methods for the CBA to me seem to focus on playing with a very efficient legato style mostly on the outside 3 rows. Those fingerings work great for a lot of non-Irish tunes and music with chords, but it doesn’t really encourage the sort of phrasing one would do on a B/C box as it’s design to minimize shifting. So, considering there is essentially zero information available on what I’m trying to do, I’ve pretty much made up my own fingering system for IrTrad on C-System CBA, based on essentially a two-dimensional extension of the B/C style linear shifting and has the home position on the inside three rows. From what I’m finding so far, it works and gives me the sort of phrasing I would get on a B/C diatonic.

I only know of one other player who focuses on IrTrad on the CBA, and I’m curious if there are any other players of the instrument on the board who would be interested in discussing the instrument in this context.

Cheers and thanks,

Michael

 

[dak]

So, considering there is essentially zero information available on what I’m trying to do, I’ve pretty much made up my own fingering system for IrTrad on C-System CBA, based on essentially a two-dimensional extension of the B/C style linear shifting and has the home position on the inside three rows.

Nobody does it like that, and the reason is that accordions with a smaller number of rows are lacking inside rows. So if you get someone elses accordion with a smaller number of rows (French folk style accordions very often have 4 rows, and some smaller accordions are 3-row), youll be floundering more than with focusing on the outer rows.

It would be interesting to see how your logic/approach would fare with B-System or G-system (the latter is used pervasively in Finland, though I havent seen anything but 5-row there).

Wish you the best of success: I always consider the number of CBA players frustratingly small, and the instrument makes such a lot of sense.

 

[Seisiuneer]

Well, I don't ever play to have anything besides my own five-row Gabbanelli, so I'm not going to limit myself on the possibility that I might find my situation where I'm forced to play a three or four-row! No idea if it would work on other systems, I have no intention of switching any time soon, am very happy with C-System.

There's only a couple of C-System CBA players besides me that I know of in all of Southern California and I know they both play five-row instruments.

 

[george garside]

on a 5 row box all keys can be played using the same scale fingering - just starting in a different place. However there is a lot to be said for learning 3 scales on the outside 3 rows .The 3 scales will provide the wherewithal for 12 keys and allow more use of inside 2 rows as helper rows to ease some tricky bits of fingering .This should make playing ITM at speed easier

See you youtube vids of Gallowglass Ceilidh band for interesting combination of piano and continental boxes

george

 

[dak]

on a 5 row box all keys can be played using the same scale fingering - just starting in a different place. However there is a lot to be said for learning 3 scales on the outside 3 rows .

If you limit yourself to 3 rows, it means that you can transpose something to arbitrary keys on a 5-row instrument (if necessary, shifting to a different row).

Alternatively, with 1 additional row, almost all chord voicings (except maj7 and augmented) can be done nicely on two rows without contortion, similarly for trills. That's basically what the French do. I'm not really the best transposer, and my instrument has 4 rows. B-system has less of an imbalance with regard to how non-inverted chords started on different rows feel. I don't think there are any 4-row B-system accordions. Many plain instruments have 3 rows in Russia, and only concert instruments 5 (and Serbian instruments 6 rows and 140 basses).

 

[JackieC]

I am new to the C-system CBA, as I have played piano accordion for around 23 years, and am very comfortable with it. Recently, I got curious about the chromatic accordion and felt that by learning it, I might be able to do a better job with the Irish music my music partner and I play. I haven't been able to find any helpful methods books on Amazon, so I am using my old Palmer-Hughes books and find they are very good. The only thing that is different is the fingerlings are for PA, but that doesn't seem to be a problem, as I already know the bass side of the accordion. My CBA is a small 4 row C system and is a joy to play. Of course, it's going to be a while before I am ready to play reels, jigs and hornpipes on this great little instrument.

 

[dak]

I am new to the C-system CBA, as I have played piano accordion for around 23 years, and am very comfortable with it. Recently, I got curious about the chromatic accordion and felt that by learning it, I might be able to do a better job with the Irish music my music partner and I play.

Catching up with 23 years is going to take a while. For me, a CBA just makes better sense as a music instrument, both with regard to playing by ear and with size and weight and arrangement of controls for opening valves (rather than striking strings) and resulting in a portable instrument with reasonable range. So Im glad I did not let more than 1 or 2 years accumulate before switching.

My CBA is a small 4 row C system and is a joy to play. Of course, its going to be a while before I am ready to play reels, jigs and hornpipes on this great little instrument.

Yup, this sounds like a nice box for folksy play.

 

[debra]

I am new to the C-system CBA, as I have played piano accordion for around 23 years, and am very comfortable with it. Recently, I got curious about the chromatic accordion and felt that by learning it, I might be able to do a better job with the Irish music my music partner and I play.

Catching up with 23 years is going to take a while. For me, a CBA just makes better sense as a music instrument, both with regard to playing by ear and with size and weight and arrangement of controls for opening valves (rather than striking strings) and resulting in a portable instrument with reasonable range. So Im glad I did not let more than 1 or 2 years accumulate before switching.

My CBA is a small 4 row C system and is a joy to play. Of course, its going to be a while before I am ready to play reels, jigs and hornpipes on this great little instrument.

Yup, this sounds like a nice box for folksy play.[/quote]
My experience is that catching up takes 6 years of hard work.
And while generally its a good idea to first learn to play everything basic on the outer 3 rows some things are just much easier when you use the 4rd (or 5th if available) row. A major chord for instance requires 2 rows. Playing C-E-G-C is much easier than D-F#-A-D using just the first 3 rows. That where the 4rd row comes in handy. I know from experience on the accordina (has only 3 rows) that I really miss a 4rd row when it isnt there.
To really mimic the Irish tunes (so far I have only done a superficial job on that) I suspect a smaller instrument is helpful, and knowing where the Irish need to change direction on their diatonic instruments may help to give more of a genuine Irish impression.

 

[george garside]

The bellows direction on a 2 row diatonic box would be very difficult to copy on a piano or continental as ,due to 'alternative' notes they can look random. On the 3 row BCC sharp that is even more so as you have two of everything apart from GDA & Bb. It is by choosing which to prod when that it is possible to keep the bellow very tight by eg playing a bar out using one fingering aand repeating it in using a completely different fingering! Its fascinating!

george

 

[dak]

My experience is that catching up takes 6 years of hard work.

Yeah, Im glad that I never gave the piano accordion that much of a head start. I think the most annoying thing may be to recover your repertoire, the stuff your fingers play by heart. And sight reading is harder to start with because a piano keyboard corresponds better with the note system.

To really mimic the Irish tunes (so far I have only done a superficial job on that) I suspect a smaller instrument is helpful, and knowing where the Irish need to change direction on their diatonic instruments may help to give more of a genuine Irish impression.

I wouldnt try. The whole point of the small diatonic instruments is that they are really, really small and light, so you can reverse bellows direction with quite little effort, almost like fiddling. Unisonoric instruments have lots more reeds, particularly on the bass side, so there is a lot more mass to turn around on direction changes. A bellow shake on unisonoric instruments, particularly large ones, is more of an athletic feat than something you hold up over the course of an evening.

 

[Anyanka]

My experience is that catching up takes 6 years of hard work.

Depends how long youve been playing, and how you make the switch. I switched after 4 years of PA, and now - after 2 1/2 years on CBA - my playing is much better than it ever was. I reckon that it took me 12 months to catch up.

 

[Anyanka]

Oh, and the guy I bought my CBA from used it mostly for Irish. He is a forum member, but not very active.

 

[george garside]

the large diatonic instrument i.e BCC# does not need great strength or whatever to do the ins and outs of the bellows.

see youtube ''all Ireland 3 row accordion players Kerry Loughlin plays 2 reels''

Also various you tube vids of Brandon Mcphee doing fantastic stuff on the 3 row ( and entirely by ear)

and several you tube vids of Jimmy Shand playing when in his 80's

Coming back on track to playing Irish trad on continental have a look at youtube ''Banshee/glen allen /gravel walks''


george

 

[deltasalmon]

My first post on this website. I come from semitone diatonic accordion and recently have been interested in a smaller 3-row CBA for Irish music. That would make me more interested in the outside 3 rows but while searching the internet for Irish music played on a CBA I found https://www.youtube.com/user/craptiger who seems to be like like the OP using mostly the inner 3 rows. Im obviously too new to have any sort of opinion or idea on how to go about playing a CBA but when I saw him playing mostly on the inner 3 rows it reminded me of this thread.

 

[george garside]

on a 5 row continental 12 keys can be played using the same fingering scale just by starting in a different place. On a 3 row 3scales need to be learned to play in 12 keys.

I would assume that the player you have mentioned was using the 1 scale fits all method to play in D. Many , including myself , advocate learning the 3 scales using the outside 3 rows and then adding a note here and there from the inner rows to make some tricky bits of fingering easier.

george

 

[bocsa]

(...) learning the 3 scales using the outside 3 rows (...)

George, which 3 scales please ?

 

[Jim the box]

I play Irish music on both CBA and PA. My CBA is dry tuned to give me the Irish sound that I wanted. I am self taught and use which rows feel easiest for me, although I try to stick to 3 rows so I can play in any key which does come in handy sometimes (we had a bloke playing the bagpipes in the pub the other day). :tup:

 

[george garside]

(...) learning the 3 scales using the outside 3 rows (...)

George, which 3 scales please ?

C D G

george

 

[bocsa]

Ta!