Thumb in CBA

[KLR]

I read here about how there are French and Italian schools of CBA playing, where the former don't use the thumb. I'd noticed that watching a video of this gal, Yvette Horner I think her name is, no thumb. My Swiss built C griff has a substantial thumb groove. My question is, how truly universal this phenomenon is, how dogged are players in eschewing the thumb, does it slow them down in spots, etc. I do find myself getting better results by not using the thumb at times, but then comes a point where it's just the thing.

 

[donn]

Somewhat guessing, but I think its more complicated than this - more like, if you went to look at how a dozen really great players do their thing, you might find at least several distinctly different technical approaches to how to use your fingers. Including the thumb, or not.

For example, two really great players, Eric Bouvelle and Domi Emorine playing Sur les Ponts de Paris.) Notice also that they use only 3 of their five rows.

Now lets look at a Swede who doesnt come out of that school at all, but playing a nice French tune to stay with that theme, really great player Odd Arne Halaas plays Sous le Ciel de Paris. All 5 rows, all 5 fingers, completely different technique.

So my theory is, the question should not really be so much A vs B or yes vs. no, whether you should use your thumb, but how you should use your thumb and fingers. (And the only real answer I have is not like I do it!)

[edit -- I should add, though - I dont use my thumb, and usually that means I really dont use it for anything. But it occurred to me recently that I miss a lot of notes during vigorous movement, and maybe if I used my thumb in that 3 row style, as a rest point ... and hello, that seems to help my hand stay in position better, as you might expect. The way Odd Arne Halaas plays looks easier, but his keyboard seems like it might be buttoned to his shirt, while Bouvelle and Emorine seem a little more loosely coupled to their accordions, maybe because they have a thumb free to rest on the keyboard. ]

 

[debra]

"Old" CBA players tend to not use the thumb or not much anyway. Newer schools teach students to use the thumb whenever it is handy. The type of instrument may play a role too: the bayan type which has the keyboard further away from the body makes it just a bit harder to use the thumb, especially on anything but the first row.
I use the thumb a lot. It may be because I first learned the PA and only switched to CBA (C-griff) after about 40 years...
I have the impression that the French, e.g. Richard Galliano, Ludovic Beier... use their thumb a lot and Russian bayan players only use the thumb for things that would be difficult otherwise.
My CBA accordions are actually constructed like a PA in terms of where the keyboard is, and that makes using the thumb easy enough. I can imagine that I would start using different fingering if the keyboard was placed further forward.

 

[losthobos]

sometimes you have to use the thumb to get the sweetest of chords...seems silly to leave on board when it could be singing
However it does make a sturdy anchor if you're gonna be waltzing about whilst playing....
I've been led to believe (but can't remember by whom) that accordions build with thumb groove also have smaller diameter buttons as they are not needing to accomodate fat thumbs... seems to follow rule with all the boxes i've owned

 

[Anyanka]

I was told by a very fine B-system player that it's more common to use the thumb in C-system than in the Bees, something to do with the scale patterns. I use all five fingers across all five rows myself (C-system), with particular thumb usage for the lowest note in a tune.

 

[Deleted member 48]

The thumb being used in the C-system more often than in B-system is a consequence of the angle of the right hand, right arm and elbow.

B-system and C-system have some very different fingering systems, but the layout systems are not that different.
If you imagine a B-system accordion, and you virtually push down the first row by a few buttons, then your C note button will be down under the B note, and you get a C-system accordion.
As a result, in the C-system, your right hand position changes a bit, and you naturally lower down your right elbow. In consequence, the right hand thumb automatically passes under the other fingers.
Thats why the C-system is very easy for thumb under playing techniques.

Vice versa, if you virtually pull up again the first row buttons, youll change the C-system back into B-system. And lifting up your right arm elbow. Making the thumb to come out from under the other right hand fingers.

But in my opinion, both systems B-system and C-system are perfectly capable of achieving everything possible on the accordion.

And piano accordionists do not need to worry, if you start early, everything is possible, see Pietro Adragna:

Pietro Adragna - Tico-tico (Abreu)


Pietro Adragna

smooth and very beautiful tone colours in this Hohner accordion

 

[Nuuksu]

I play B-system, I use thumb for fast chord changes sometimes eg 2-3-4-5 -> 1-3-4-5 -> 2-3-4-5 or picking notes from first and second row. My instrument - Accordiola Jazzmaster have thumb groove but don't have smaller buttons because now and then five note chords are needed in jazz.