I have an am1100 from the late 60s, 67 I think. I agree with zevy in that it’s a great instrument. The reeds are super responsive and the feel and balance of the accordion itself is extremely comfortable. It’s one of the top instruments I’ve ever played.
Zevy
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Nothing special.....just trying to help.
Go for it. But try it first!!I bought a Petosa Millennium Reedless from Joe Petosa, oh, probably 15 years ago now. Maybe longer. That accordion worked well and was one of the first true reedless accordions. I can't attest to the build quality of their accordions from that purchase since it's a reedless and was all plastic with an external module.
But it did work well and customer service was top notch. Never could bring myself to pull the trigger on an AM-1100.
Yet.
I love irony.
Paul may not have known, and honestly, I did not know until recently that Petosa has a relationship with only one company that makes their accordions for them... Zero Sette. Petosa has a relationship with them directly and apparently that is where all Petosa units come from. They have a separate line to make them look different but if you compare many of the internal and external pics on both sites, there are some evident similarities that cannot be dismissed.
Now, where did I hear about this? From my friend Ed, who bought is Bugari Evo from Petosa, and he heard it from Ray Harris over at Petosa directly. so if Ray Harris is lying, I am lying too.
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If ever this pandemic is eradicated, I'd suggest holding off and going directly to their source Zero Sette in Italy. You could likely get something of equal quality for much less by cutting out the middle man (Petosa). The savings would easily cover the cost of plane fare and hotel/food and offer a wonderful memory and likely leave a few extra dollars in your wallet to boot.But it did work well and customer service was top notch. Never could bring myself to pull the trigger on an AM-1100.
Yet.
Zevy
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Although I own an AM-1100, I have nothing to gain by promoting it and I am definitely not paid by Petosa. I have a friend who bought an accordion in Italy. However, his was a special instrument, and I believe he had to pay a lot of taxes/customs when bringing his instrument back to the USA. I believe that there are many risks in going to Castelfidardo, one of them being that you are a foreigner and they could take advantage of you. I hope I am wrong, but I would advise you to look for a good used AM-1100.If ever this pandemic is eradicated, I'd suggest holding off and going directly to their source Zero Sette in Italy. You could likely get something of equal quality for much less by cutting out the middle man (Petosa). The savings would easily cover the cost of plane fare and hotel/food and offer a wonderful memory and likely leave a few extra dollars in your wallet to boot.
Hmmmm, I wonder which risks of which you speak. I suspect there would be someone at the shop who speaks English (or whichever language you are most comfortable). If you do your research beforehand, and check over the accordion, I see no more risks than buying from any importer in the USA. Of the 3 accordions I purchased from Italy, I only paid "duty" on one, why I don't know, and I don't remember how much, but am quite sure it was circa $60, give or take. They are not required to charge you the "VAT" if the accordion is shipped out of the EU. The only advantage I can see in purchasing in the US is if the store is easy to get to for you, for any warranty, repair, or trade in issues.
craigd
Member
Petosa, petshmosa, I say . More overblown claims seem to be made about them than even the Golas and Super VIs. The old AM1100s can be very good, but there are many instruments that are as fine or finer. Personal taste is a big factor at that level, but Petosa has managed to prime people to approach their instruments as though they have somehow achieved a higher level. I can see more clearly how they have achieved this through marketing than I can see that they have achieved this through actually producing a better instrument.
. More overblown claims seem to be made about them than even the Golas and Super VIs. The old AM1100s can be very good, but there are many instruments that are as fine or finer. Personal taste is a big factor at that level, but Petosa has managed to prime people to approach their instruments as though they have somehow achieved a higher level. I can see more clearly how they have achieved this through marketing than I can see that they have achieved this through actually producing a better instrument.
Dingo40
Prolific poster
Unfortunately, for the consumer, the "sizzle" is often more important than the actual steak
Zevy
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I was sold on my (Petosa) accordion because I liked it more than any other accordion that I tried. No one had to convince me. And that's how I think anyone should buy any instrument. You must try it first.Unfortunately, for the consumer, the "sizzle" is often more important than the actual steak
Ventura
Well-known member
let me call your attention to the Keyboards in the Vid's that
Dingo posted near the beginning of this thread
the first one should be pretty obvious to everyone... that is
not a Zero-Sette build...
(look at the offset edge on the low F treble key)
actually many of you SHOULD be able to guess the factory
of origin based on that offset, which was set in stone
in New York before shifting to Italy (and the grille and shifts)
you can also determine the periods that had different
suppliers by the voluptuous sculpting of the treble
keyboard edge, vs the period using a more flatted line
dead giveaway to different factories
in the 50's and early 60's Giulietti did not source from Zero,
then they made a deal that included (very limited) European
distribution rights, and from that point both Guilietti and Petosa
sourced their accordions from Zero through the 80's... Zero
continued the styling from the other factory for Julio
(note the sculpted space fillers around the 120 Bass buttons)
Zero had a large and very complete factory during this period
including Actions, Bellows, Keys, and an Acetone room -
and of course made their Bodies in house... Physical carachteristics
of Zero bodywork and dimension is noticeably different from Bugari,
as you can see from the 4th Video which is clearly a modern Bugari body
the 3rd Video IS a Petosa from the Zero factory... i played it
during a visit to Seattle and know the model... yes the Bass
is bad-ass and it is a heavy beast but strollable if you take your time
(which i did playing the stately AMBOSS Polka)
the second vid with the reverse color keyboard has that very flat planed
treble edge
the original Zero factory outlived the Gulietti company, and
after G was closed in the USA, Zero still retained the right to
build and sell them in Europe, and so for several years longer
that Giulietti existed, new models WERE available (then glommed
onto eBay, then the Heirs in America got angry, then...
about this time Zero did go out of business, and closed their factory.
Legally when they dissolved they lost the right to the Euro Giulietti
though there are a few post-zero Bootlegs that continued to
pop up in Europe (but are obviously not Zero's OR Bugari's... look closely)
during this period Petosa had to find a new supplier of bodies, and
so their original and famous looking models with the nicely curved
and sculpted lines ENDED with the bodys they had IN STOCK at the
time of Zero's demise... things are vague from this period but the IMF
factory that got set up during this period may have had an assist
from Seattle interests as well as the Gabbanelli and Piermaria families...
about this time Bugari stepped in and made a deal to help Zero
re-emerge as an entity, which was rather nice of them... BUT it
should be obvious to you all from examination that Zero was not
able to save their tooling or body forms, and now builds all of
their models based upon Bugari bodies (and presumably actions)
so while there are obviously nice and well crafted accordions
coming out of there today, they are DIFFERENT than "of old"
and they do, again, supply most of Petosa's line...
to my ear, Bugari has always had a certain sound, and they
have always been damn proud of it and their reed-work...
i think it has always set them apart from the other builders...
todays Petosa models are going to be re-fined in Seattle as they
have always been, and will show and play like Petosa's, but they
will not sound or feel the same as the models that made them famous
and as such should be evaluated not on reputation or historical legend
alone, but upon YOU playing the accordion you are considering buying
and evaluating it with your own ears.
finally, Petosa had obviously made a limited rights deal with the heirs of Guilietti
and offer several models, but it is not clear from where they were sourced
or if this is a continuing objective or was a one time arrangement they
will eventually sell through and out... current Bugari bodies do not appear to
have that telltale offset except on extended keyboard models
examine closely is my advise
Dingo posted near the beginning of this thread
the first one should be pretty obvious to everyone... that is
not a Zero-Sette build...
(look at the offset edge on the low F treble key)
actually many of you SHOULD be able to guess the factory
of origin based on that offset, which was set in stone
in New York before shifting to Italy (and the grille and shifts)
you can also determine the periods that had different
suppliers by the voluptuous sculpting of the treble
keyboard edge, vs the period using a more flatted line
dead giveaway to different factories
in the 50's and early 60's Giulietti did not source from Zero,
then they made a deal that included (very limited) European
distribution rights, and from that point both Guilietti and Petosa
sourced their accordions from Zero through the 80's... Zero
continued the styling from the other factory for Julio
(note the sculpted space fillers around the 120 Bass buttons)
Zero had a large and very complete factory during this period
including Actions, Bellows, Keys, and an Acetone room -
and of course made their Bodies in house... Physical carachteristics
of Zero bodywork and dimension is noticeably different from Bugari,
as you can see from the 4th Video which is clearly a modern Bugari body
the 3rd Video IS a Petosa from the Zero factory... i played it
during a visit to Seattle and know the model... yes the Bass
is bad-ass and it is a heavy beast but strollable if you take your time
(which i did playing the stately AMBOSS Polka)
the second vid with the reverse color keyboard has that very flat planed
treble edge
the original Zero factory outlived the Gulietti company, and
after G was closed in the USA, Zero still retained the right to
build and sell them in Europe, and so for several years longer
that Giulietti existed, new models WERE available (then glommed
onto eBay, then the Heirs in America got angry, then...
about this time Zero did go out of business, and closed their factory.
Legally when they dissolved they lost the right to the Euro Giulietti
though there are a few post-zero Bootlegs that continued to
pop up in Europe (but are obviously not Zero's OR Bugari's... look closely)
during this period Petosa had to find a new supplier of bodies, and
so their original and famous looking models with the nicely curved
and sculpted lines ENDED with the bodys they had IN STOCK at the
time of Zero's demise... things are vague from this period but the IMF
factory that got set up during this period may have had an assist
from Seattle interests as well as the Gabbanelli and Piermaria families...
about this time Bugari stepped in and made a deal to help Zero
re-emerge as an entity, which was rather nice of them... BUT it
should be obvious to you all from examination that Zero was not
able to save their tooling or body forms, and now builds all of
their models based upon Bugari bodies (and presumably actions)
so while there are obviously nice and well crafted accordions
coming out of there today, they are DIFFERENT than "of old"
and they do, again, supply most of Petosa's line...
to my ear, Bugari has always had a certain sound, and they
have always been damn proud of it and their reed-work...
i think it has always set them apart from the other builders...
todays Petosa models are going to be re-fined in Seattle as they
have always been, and will show and play like Petosa's, but they
will not sound or feel the same as the models that made them famous
and as such should be evaluated not on reputation or historical legend
alone, but upon YOU playing the accordion you are considering buying
and evaluating it with your own ears.
finally, Petosa had obviously made a limited rights deal with the heirs of Guilietti
and offer several models, but it is not clear from where they were sourced
or if this is a continuing objective or was a one time arrangement they
will eventually sell through and out... current Bugari bodies do not appear to
have that telltale offset except on extended keyboard models
examine closely is my advise
I indeed did not know this. And as Zero Sette and Bugari are also the same company (in the same building in (the industrial lower part of) Castelfidardo it essentially means that new Petosa accordions are Bugari. That is a good sign for the quality of these instruments!I love irony.
Paul may not have known, and honestly, I did not know until recently that Petosa has a relationship with only one company that makes their accordions for them... Zero Sette. Petosa has a relationship with them directly and apparently that is where all Petosa units come from. They have a separate line to make them look different but if you compare many of the internal and external pics on both sites, there are some evident similarities that cannot be dismissed.
Now, where did I hear about this? From my friend Ed, who bought is Bugari Evo from Petosa, and he heard it from Ray Harris over at Petosa directly. so if Ray Harris is lying, I am lying too.
I've never played a Petosa, but I have called the shop a few times to ask about used instruments. They have always been very helpful and willing to help in any way, even though I never bought anything major.
I just noticed via Petosa email newsletter that they have a new line of accordions: Americana (producto di Petosa). They appear to be a smaller line of accordions (34, 37 on the treble, 96 bass) and the descriptions mention that they are more or less mass-produced and thus represent significant cost savings.
They have revised their website, and to their credit, it is much better. They are one of the few manufacturers that list the price of their accordions without having to submit a bunch of information. As a consumer I feel this really helps with narrowing down the accordion line you are most interested in.
These new Americana accordions seem to be around $4,000US or less. Considerably cheaper than the Petosa equivalents. There is verbiage about getting them direct from the factory rather than through Petosa themselves - in other words drop-shipped - to my knowledge.
I'd be interested to hear Jim or Ventura's take on these accordions. One of them will most likely know where these are coming from. I feel they are just mass-produced and if you buy it from Petosa it has the "producto di Petosa" on the badge and that's it.
It is interesting, however, and from their audio and video samples they sound very nice.
They have revised their website, and to their credit, it is much better. They are one of the few manufacturers that list the price of their accordions without having to submit a bunch of information. As a consumer I feel this really helps with narrowing down the accordion line you are most interested in.
These new Americana accordions seem to be around $4,000US or less. Considerably cheaper than the Petosa equivalents. There is verbiage about getting them direct from the factory rather than through Petosa themselves - in other words drop-shipped - to my knowledge.
I'd be interested to hear Jim or Ventura's take on these accordions. One of them will most likely know where these are coming from. I feel they are just mass-produced and if you buy it from Petosa it has the "producto di Petosa" on the badge and that's it.
It is interesting, however, and from their audio and video samples they sound very nice.
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As for quality & origin - time will tell in the quality of performance - the Americana badge contains the words Prodotto di Petosa which is
in Italian. Will have to do some research.
in Italian. Will have to do some research.
Ventura
Well-known member
this is, again, following the sales model of Steinway
why let all your competitors sell "off" your overpriced/premium product line ?
do it yourself whenever you have a customer who obviously cannot afford your
Brand Name Fame by having your own alternative that, by virtue of it having your
imprimatur, carries the whiff of quality and luxury by association...
in Steinways case, they did this twice... first with a line of Piano's branded
"Boston"
and built for them in the Kawai Factory in Japan
still very high quality
and then with a third line called
"Essex"
of very standard quality
this gives the Steinway galleries two levels of "more affordable" options
to sell, thereby keeping the customer from straying to a competitor
as they have a choice right here, right now, from someone they
(think they can) trust
Petosa has spent decades and decades positioning itself at the
top and building a story that justifies their stratospheric price
the main difference is that Steinway has done tons of research and development,
much of which has trickled down to all other Piano builders, sort of
like Mercedes Safety technology which has been shared with other
carmakers worldwide... dues have been paid...
i know of no Petosa led design elements that are special, unique,
technologically groundbreaking or industry changing.
if you feel the price is justified, buy one, otherwise book a week in
Castlefdardo, fly home with 2 or even 3 accordions and still have money left over
after you pay for the tickets and lodging and meals at the Trattoria too !
at least if you buy a "Petosa" you can't go wrong with the accordion you end up with
whether you paid too much or not is just opinion
it is (was) your money
but if you way overpay for smoke and mirrors, shame on you
why let all your competitors sell "off" your overpriced/premium product line ?
do it yourself whenever you have a customer who obviously cannot afford your
Brand Name Fame by having your own alternative that, by virtue of it having your
imprimatur, carries the whiff of quality and luxury by association...
in Steinways case, they did this twice... first with a line of Piano's branded
"Boston"
and built for them in the Kawai Factory in Japan
still very high quality
and then with a third line called
"Essex"
of very standard quality
this gives the Steinway galleries two levels of "more affordable" options
to sell, thereby keeping the customer from straying to a competitor
as they have a choice right here, right now, from someone they
(think they can) trust
Petosa has spent decades and decades positioning itself at the
top and building a story that justifies their stratospheric price
the main difference is that Steinway has done tons of research and development,
much of which has trickled down to all other Piano builders, sort of
like Mercedes Safety technology which has been shared with other
carmakers worldwide... dues have been paid...
i know of no Petosa led design elements that are special, unique,
technologically groundbreaking or industry changing.
if you feel the price is justified, buy one, otherwise book a week in
Castlefdardo, fly home with 2 or even 3 accordions and still have money left over
after you pay for the tickets and lodging and meals at the Trattoria too !
at least if you buy a "Petosa" you can't go wrong with the accordion you end up with
whether you paid too much or not is just opinion
it is (was) your money
but if you way overpay for smoke and mirrors, shame on you
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