Suggestions of accordion suitable for English folk

[saundersbp]

If you mean, freebass accordions-nobody plays freebass accordions for traditional Irish/UK folk genres

I do!

 

[JeffJetton]

Suggestions of accordion suitable for English folk

I swear when I first read this thread title, I didn't initially get that it was talking about folk music.

So my first thought was, "Well just about any accordion could be played by English folk, couldn't it? The folks in England aren't too different from the folks anywhere else!"

 

[Ventura]

or the Jazz Folks in Washington State

 

[Julian H]

Perhaps it's more to do with the way I want to play it? I'm mellowing with age, and so is my playing style. I'm developing a John Spiers style, but adapted to the PA.

 

[Ffingers]

I do!

Not one of the "sheeple" then?

( For those unfamiliar with that word it was coined to describe the powerful tendency for individuals to flock together for fear of being "different", and/or those who are determinedly resistant to forming their own fact based conclusions but who depend entirely on the opinions of others.)

 

[OuijaBoard]

Not one of the "sheeple" then?

( For those unfamiliar with that word it was coined to describe the powerful tendency for individuals to flock together for fear of being "different", and/or those who are determinedly resistant to forming their own fact based conclusions but who depend entirely on the opinions of others.)

We all know what the term "sheeple" means. Sometimes a "majority" preference, or a tradition, might be synonymous with "sheeple." But often . . . not. Such as in this instance.

 

[OuijaBoard]

Perhaps it's more to do with the way I want to play it? I'm mellowing with age, and so is my playing style. I'm developing a John Spiers style, but adapted to the PA.

You might enjoy these clips by Anders Lillebo, a Scandinavian devotee of traditional Irish music discussing his journey to play it on PA. His YT channel also has numerous super-nice playing clips--He's a lovely player with an aesthetic similar to that of Mr. Spiers, at least to my ear.

The second link below is not from Anders Lillebo's YT channel, but it is a wonderful podcast interview he did with the gorgeous Irish/UK/Scandi PA player Karen Tweed, in which she talks about using the basses for color while avoiding an aggressive PA oom-pah sound. This came to mind because John Spiers' bass colors remind me of Karen Tweed's approach.

Anders discusses his Irish journey with PA, complete with, "WARNING: Nerdy Stuff!":

https://www.youtube.com/@AndersLillebomusic/videos

Podcast interview with Karen Tweed:

 

[Ffingers]

We all know what the term "sheeple" means. Sometimes a "majority" preference, or a tradition, might be synonymous with "sheeple." But often . . . not. Such as in this instance.

Have you done a comprehensive survey to ascertain that everyone, including non-native English speakers, is included in your "all know"?

In my lexicon, "sheeple" has nought to do with preferences nor traditions - just mindless following of the majority of the mob.

You assert: "- nobody plays freebass accordions for traditional Irish/UK folk genres" but obviously, if only from Ben's reply, that is not a correct statement: He does, so evidently somebody actually does.
...and saundersbp is certainly a 'somebody' in the musical world.

​

 

[Dingo40]

We all know what the term "sheeple" means.

Well, actually, I'd never heard of it but yes, here it is:

sheeple mening - Google Search

 

[Rosie C]

Podcast interview with Karen Tweed:

Thanks for sharing that, very interesting.

 

[JerryPH]

I do!

You are a unicorn aongst sheep... lol

 

[CC_PDX]

Many bisonoric folk accordions have "sliders" on the bass side to remove the thirds from chords--this is important for PA/CBA players to remember--full minor, dominant seventh, diminished, or augmented bass chords don't sound traditional, at least in Irish trad

This is super important in Irish. If you leave the thirds in on many Irish tunes, it sounds a lot like bluegrass. I’ve personally gone to (what some may consider) extreme lengths to locate, acquire and learn a unisonoric box so that I can provide authentic Irish sounding rhythmic / harmonic backing by leaving out the thirds to preserve the harmonic ambiguity, especially for Dorian and mixolydian tunes.

That’s why it drives me particularly crazy when someone (usually a clueless guitarist) shows up at a session and plays full triads or adds inappropriate sevenths or diminished and undoes that. I liken it to someone “enhancing” a Picasso abstract pen and ink sketch by coloring it in perfectly within the lines using primary colored magic markers.

 

[saundersbp]

Many bisonoric folk accordions have "sliders" on the bass side to remove the thirds from chords--this is important for PA/CBA players to remember--full minor, dominant seventh, diminished, or augmented bass chords don't sound traditional, at least in Irish trad

If you leave the thirds in on many Irish tunes, it sounds a lot like bluegrass. I’ve personally gone to (what some may consider) extreme lengths to locate, acquire and learn a unisonoric box so that I can provide authentic Irish sounding rhythmic / harmonic backing by leaving out the thirds to preserve the harmonic ambiguity

Kind of shows the reason why little freebass instruments are often better for traditional music because you can play whatever notes you want without sliders, specialist 'folk' accordions, modified left hand chords and other such complications, contrivances and idiosyncrasies.

I have added the word "sheeple" to by vocabulary - it's not one I've ever heard before but I like it!

 

[CC_PDX]

Kind of shows the reason why little freebass instruments are often better for traditional music because you can play whatever notes you want without sliders, specialist 'folk' accordions, modified left hand chords and other such complications, contrivances and idiosyncrasies.

I have added the word "sheeple" to by vocabulary - it's not one I've ever heard before but I like it!

Agreed! The “specialist” 24 button Darwin system I ended up with can do root and third-less (fifth and root) indeterminate “chords” OR 2 full octaves of free bass. It can do very traditional or wildly divergent complex jazz/modal harmonies because every note is available on the push and pull.

 

[OuijaBoard]

Have you done a comprehensive survey to ascertain that everyone, including non-native English speakers, is included in your "all know"?

In my lexicon, "sheeple" has nought to do with preferences nor traditions - just mindless following of the majority of the mob.

You assert: "- nobody plays freebass accordions for traditional Irish/UK folk genres" but obviously, if only from Ben's reply, that is not a correct statement: He does, so evidently somebody actually does.
...and saundersbp is certainly a 'somebody' in the musical world.

​

It is true that I used "nobody" loosely and colloquially. And while not specifically stating so, my comment referred to players in those musical communities. While I have not literally surveyed every accordion player operating in the Irish/Scottish/UK trad milieux, to understate the point, I am not devoid of experience and familiarity with accordion playing in those milieux. That an individual accordionist with a strong orientation and focus on conservatory type freebass instruments, their timbre and sound, and the types of art music frequently played on such instruments chooses to use them to express music from folk traditions is an artistic choice open to anyone, but not contemplated in my very loose comments which focused on trad/folk conventions. I would have been happy to clarify this but your uncalled-for comments beat me to it.

Your unfounded assumption and announcement that conventional practice within a folk or traditional genre must be motivated by fear and conformity is impolite, as well as inaccurate. Sometimes, that may be applicable. Plenty of times, it is not.

 

[OuijaBoard]

Kind of shows the reason why little freebass instruments are often better for traditional music because you can play whatever notes you want without sliders, specialist 'folk' accordions, modified left hand chords and other such complications, contrivances and idiosyncrasies.

I have added the word "sheeple" to by vocabulary - it's not one I've ever heard before but I like it!

I get what you mean, and tried the same avenue by acquiring a small CBA with a couple of octaves of freebass based on that same reasoning. But as noted in other threads here, the freebass timbre is different from that of Stradella instruments, even on the single notes. For me personally, the freebass sound did not complement the trad/folk music genre in a satisfying manner. Of course, this is a subjective aesthetic choice, and all the best with yours.

 

[96Bass]

This is super important in Irish. If you leave the thirds in on many Irish tunes, it sounds a lot like bluegrass. I’ve personally gone to (what some may consider) extreme lengths to locate, acquire and learn a unisonoric box so that I can provide authentic Irish sounding rhythmic / harmonic backing by leaving out the thirds to preserve the harmonic ambiguity, especially for Dorian and mixolydian tunes.

That’s why it drives me particularly crazy when someone (usually a clueless guitarist) shows up at a session and plays full triads or adds inappropriate sevenths or diminished and undoes that. I liken it to someone “enhancing” a Picasso abstract pen and ink sketch by coloring it in perfectly within the lines using primary colored magic markers.

Not sure I agree with this. Joe Burke was often accompanied by Charlie Lennon on his early recordings (1960s ?).
I'm sure Charlie Lennon was playing full triad chords and not omitting the thirds.
A lot of modern Irish music does seem to have gone the direction of "droning" accompaniment. I am guessing this may have began when Andy Irvine introduced the Greek bouzouki to Irish music. The DAGAD tuned guitars sound like a rhythmic drone that can change pitch.
I suppose they could take it a step further and just play a D chord constantly ( sans third of course ) in order to more closely sound like the drone of the uilleann pipes.

 

[OuijaBoard]

But Charlie Lennon was not the accordion player. Joe Burke was the accordion player. I did many master classes with Joe Burke, and he played no chords aside from the occasional major chord. In ITM, piano-vamping conventions are not identical to accordion conventions. One is free to diverge from folk/traditional conventions. But one is also free to respect folk/traditional conventions without being called names.

I should add, the late Joe Burke, RIP. He was a generous and brilliant musician and teacher. I'm also a big admirer of Charlie Lennon as a fiddler and tunesmith as well as a piano-vamper.

 

[dak]

Not sure I agree with this. Joe Burke was often accompanied by Charlie Lennon on his early recordings (1960s ?).
I'm sure Charlie Lennon was playing full triad chords and not omitting the thirds.
A lot of modern Irish music does seem to have gone the direction of "droning" accompaniment. I am guessing this may have began when Andy Irvine introduced the Greek bouzouki to Irish music. The DAGAD tuned guitars sound like a rhythmic drone that can change pitch.
I suppose they could take it a step further and just play a D chord constantly ( sans third of course ) in order to more closely sound like the drone of the uilleann pipes.

Well, traditions constantly refine themselves. The need to differentiate from Bluegrass certainly is a newer development that becomes more tricky once you realize that Bluegrass actually evolved from Irish music. So to become non-bluegrassy, you need to root out stuff that moved naturally in a new style. If it even moved rather than become ossified in a state that the Irish "traditions" have moved away from since then.

 

[dak]

But Charlie Lennon was not the accordion player. Joe Burke was the accordion player. I did many master classes with Joe Burke, and he played no chords aside from the occasional major chord.

How could he, using that diatonic box? I think the larger ones have exactly one minor chord. A CF one may have D minor. And of course, even those primitive boxes are younger than actual traditional Irish music.