Studio session coming up - any advice?

[Rosie C]

This Friday I'll be taking my accordion to our local community recording studio where I have a couple of hours booked to start laying down tracks for a folk album I'm working on. They have a 16 track recording system. I was thinking to record the accordion's internal bass and treble mics on two channels, also have a pair of externals mics - I have a set of Sennheiser vocal mics I can use on mic stands near the instrument.

I wondered if anyone had any experience or advice to share, particularly with the mechanics of recording, placement of external mics, etc?

 

[dak]

In a studio, you don't have to worry about feedback. That gives you quite a different background to what gear you want to use for recording. In my personal experience, large diaphragm condenser mics (standard studio gear) and tremolo don't get along. For the treble side, I use a cardioid small diaphragm condenser mic, probably 20cm to 25cm from the low notes of the treble side, pointing downwards to the high notes of the treble side. Rationale: cardioids get more directional in the high frequencies, so the somewhat larger distance to the treble side is compensated by direct pointing. The bass side is tricky because it moves. To get somewhat constant volume, I put a mic on the (hard) floor a bit to the side. I use an omnidirectional microphone there (I actually point it towards the floor because then I get closer to the floor): the hard floor acts as a bass trap to some degree. You can increase the effect by putting a hard accordion case next to the mic so that the sound from the accordion bass hits a hard corner. Note that this "hard boundary" trick only works with omnidirectional microphones (which react to absolute pressure rather than differentials).

Now I am recording "classic" stuff. Folk is a completely different genre, and I am not sure about what to use best here. Problem with specifically vocal mics is that they are often intended for live use, meaning they work extensively with the proximity effect and have limited frequency range, both in order to control feedback. That's not usually desirable for studio recordings of accordion.

I've also heard of people using ribbon mics with success, but have no experience myself. In a nutshell: if you have 16 track recording, go wild and put microphones of all kind where you think it makes sense, then sort out things afterwards. 16 tracks allows you to throw a lot away.

 

[Rosie C]

Thanks for your reply @dak , setting up several mics is such a good idea - Friday is just a first session, more about finding my feet than expecting to make much in the way of serious recordings. I can try several mics then listen to how they sound later.

 

[dak]

Thanks for your reply @dak , setting up several mics is such a good idea - Friday is just a first session, more about finding my feet than expecting to make much in the way of serious recordings. I can try several mics then listen to how they sound later.

Just be sure to write down what microphone in which position is on what track.

 

[CC_PDX]

I recently booked a studio session (mainly to get some other perspectives on recording technique)

They used 4 mics in near proximity angled toward me on either side:
2 x Coles 4038 ribbons
2 x AKG C414 XLII large diaphragm condensers

Both were plugged into a Neve Portico 5024 4-preamp

They set A pair of Neumann TLM 103 Large diaphragm condensers set up 8 feet in the air 12 feet away for capturing room ambiance.

I got the raw mixdown as 6 tracks (3 stereo ) which I could blend as I liked. I just posted a video in the "I Did That" forum if you want to see and hear the results.

I will probably do it again (more as a way to be in an immersive environment where I can totally focus), but I'm pretty happy with my home setup sound-wise.

 

[Rosie C]

The place I'm going is a community resource, so not very expensive - one of the motivations for me is to have someone else worry about the cables and recording levels, to leave me free to think about my music. Also not having to keep stopping to play back to see if something sounds OK. I too will be getting a raw recording to take home. Fun times ahead!

 

[JKJ]

Just be sure to write down what microphone in which position is on what track.

It can also help to make a little sketch (and maybe photos) of the position and orientation of the mics and instrument(s). For future reference.

 

[JerryPH]

I happen to have a fairly extensive studio in my basement (including a 16-channel all hybrid analog/digital setup and a combination of 6 external mics (for the accordions that do not have internal mics). I have a personal preference of using quality internal mics over using quality external mics.

Granted, there is enough fodder here to write a book, but I will limit and divide my brief suggestions in to 2 areas... what the sound engineer should be doing and what you should be doing.

YOUR SIDE:
1a. Know your music very well. If its just sound recording (no video), you can likely read off any sheet music you may have. Be careful to not introduce any paper rattles when pages are turned. Ideally you want to play things by heart, as that frees you up to concentrate on expression and emotion instead of the notes and eliminates a potential noise source.

1b. Trust the sound engineer, but set firm goals of what you expect, if you have any goals. Document as much as you are comfortable with, including maybe taking a few setup shots with your cell phone, but the complete setup should be documented in detail by the sound engineer, as well as all settings on the mixer, VST's used, etc...

Sound Engineer:
2a. Recording in a studio is VASTLY different than recording events where you are performing live. In live events, the gain staging must be adjusted for maximum volume without distortion. EQ is set to the requirements of the event location (outdoors or indoor EQ can have huge differences).

2b. Recording in studio means you are recording only for 2 main reasons... sound quality and maximum headroom. Using good quality mics (or good quality INTERNAL mics) is the starting point. You will find that in most cases internal mics have better separation than external mics. They will also have less accordion "clatter" but don't expect it to be gone 100%. If its there, its there, accept it as part of the personality of the accordion. Recording levels are max'ed out at around -12db at most... NEVER EVER coming even close to 0db at the loudest parts of your music.

2c. The real magic happens not when you are recording but when the sound engineer post processes your music after the recording session is over and gives it it's style using EQ, reverb, and a stereo image using panning and many other tools. The newbies will hard pan left and right hands, and while doing this during recording is VERY desired, in no room on earth will you ever hear an accordion in real life where 100% of the left side enters your RIGHT ear and visa versa, there is a natural balance where you feel the separation but its not super evident (that in ofitself is a hint... the stereo image reflects the image of how someone else hears YOU not how you hear yourself in terms of ear the bass nad treble sounds come in). Discussing EQing... LESS IS MORE. Final file is going to be adjusted based on WHERE you are going to use that music... ie: for YouTube/Spotify or live listening over a stereo system.

I'll stop here, but I could quite literally write a book on it if needed... lol.

 

[JKJ]

the stereo image reflects the image of how someone else hears YOU not how you hear yourself in terms of ear the bass nad treble sounds come in

Recently, I was listening to a few otherwise excellent videos of a talented accordionist but something didn’t sound right. The video had the treble on the right channel and the bass on the left, backwards from the audience perspective. The recording probably sounded ”right” to him, what he was used to hearing while playing, but felt uncomfortable to me watching him play.

When I reversed my headphones the audio felt perfect to me, consistent with the video.

JKJ

 

[CC_PDX]

Recently, I was listening to a few otherwise excellent videos of a talented accordionist but something didn’t sound right. The video had the treble on the right channel and the bass on the left, backwards from the audience perspective. The recording probably sounded ”right” to him, what he was used to hearing while playing, but felt uncomfortable to me watching him play.

When I reversed my headphones the audio felt perfect to me, consistent with the video.

JKJ

For whatever reason, the left/right reversal doesn’t bother me for audio, but the mirror image video of accordionists and pianists drives me crazy. Seeing someone playing a flipped left handed box or descending on a keyboard while the tune goes higher is some sort of voodoo. YouTube shorts are a primary offender here as the mobile app gives you no way to correct this freakish result.

 

[dak]

For whatever reason, the left/right reversal doesn’t bother me for audio, but the mirror image video of accordionists and pianists drives me crazy. Seeing someone playing a flipped left handed box or descending on a keyboard while the tune goes higher is some sort of voodoo. YouTube shorts are a primary offender here as the mobile app gives you no way to correct this freakish result.

I am pretty sure that pretty much all recording apps would offer an option of whether to record/stream the mirror view the selfie-taker sees themselves or the side-correct view. That's sort of an obvious problem.

 

[Rosie C]

Thanks @JerryPH ! It will be audio-only recordings. I'm multi-tracking so everything will be played to a click-track, and later I'll make a video to set the recording to. I've memorised the vocal and mandocello (guitar) part, but I'll be playing accordion from music - but it fits on a page of A3.

You make a good point regarding mixing. I'm undecided over who should do the final mix - I had thought to do it myself, but a friend recently released a CD recorded, mixed & mastered at a local professional studio and it sounds very good. I might have a go myself, then hand over the raw/master recordings to them and see how they do with it. Final destination is a CD, though more as a demo disc than anything commercial.

 

[JerryPH]

ou make a good point regarding mixing. I'm undecided over who should do the final mix - I had thought to do it myself, but a friend recently released a CD recorded, mixed & mastered at a local professional studio and it sounds very good. I might have a go myself, then hand over the raw/master recordings to them and see how they do with it.

If you have the original WAVE (*.wav) files (highest quality losses), you can do as many mixdowns as you need. If you like I'd love to have a go with it and send you a final mix... you can then choose what you want. I'd not charge for it, just do it for fun. I've done several videos for a few members here and for a couple other people, actually created a private video tutorial of how I mixed down their files.

 

[Rosie C]

If you have the original WAVE (*.wav) files (highest quality losses), you can do as many mixdowns as you need. If you like I'd love to have a go with it and send you a final mix...

that's very generous thank you, and I'll definitely take you up on that!

 

[CC_PDX]

I am pretty sure that pretty much all recording apps would offer an option of whether to record/stream the mirror view the selfie-taker sees themselves or the side-correct view. That's sort of an obvious problem.

I thought so too but bizarrely YouTube’s mobile app absolutely locks you into this mirrored view when creating a “short” with their tools. People have come up with convoluted 15 step workarounds with third party apps to reprocess them so they look normal.

 

[JerryPH]

that's very generous thank you, and I'll definitely take you up on that!

Thank-you for your trust and accepting, it will be my pleasure.

 

[JKJ]

someone … descending on a keyboard while the tune goes higher is some sort of voodoo

Not quite the same thing... but when I watch a piano/keyboardist recorded from the front with the whole keyboard showing, treble on the left end and low notes on the right, I have a hard time with the mental flip to follow the fingers and maybe learn some fingering or chords. What I do (when watching on my iPad) is lock the auto screen rotation and turn the screen upside down. Now it makes more sense when watching the hands!

As for video: while I’m not familiar with the screen mirroring in the youtube app or other flipping problems, there is a free solution for nearly all video woes: the Black Magic’s DaVinci Resolve professional video editor:

DaVinci Resolve 19 | Blackmagic Design

Professional video editing, color correction, visual effects and audio post production all in a single application. Free and paid versions for Mac, Windows and Linux.

www.blackmagicdesign.com

My video pro son turned me on to this video editing software a couple of years ago. I have been editing on other platforms for years (mostly Premiere, SpeedRazor) but Resolve puts them all to shame. This is a high-end package used by many professionals. The free version gets you almost all of the functionality but I paid a pittance for the Studio version upgrade. Resolve does like a healthy computer with plenty of storage space, a good GPU, and dual monitors make editing easier. The learning curve is not for wimps or the impatient but IMO well worth the effort for a serious videographer.

You can easily flip, squish, color correct, adjust speed, do motion tracking, and so much more. Work in just about any format known to man. There are zillions of on-line tutorials and fanatics who live to help.

(BTW, I have no stock in their company nor get a penny for pushing it! I'm simply a much impressed user.)

If anyone here is the least interested, this is a shortened version of the first video I did with Resolve, part of a demo for a woodworking club. It's 4 minutes long, actually a MUCH slashed version of a 45 minute video I did on the same subject for another club for a zoom meeting during COVID lockdown. (Even the 45 minute video is a shortened version of my 4 hour bandsaw class!)

Very short video edited in Resolve. No fancy mics. No original music. All video and photography by JKJ.

The point is, I learned Resolve from scratch in a very short time, enough to do this and longer videos. There are better and cleaner ways to do some of the edits but this worked for a time crunch. And although I used almost none of it for this little video, Resolve has some powerful professional audio editing and mixing features.

JKJ

 

[96Bass]

I happen to have a fairly extensive studio in my basement (including a 16-channel all hybrid analog/digital setup and a combination of 6 external mics (for the accordions that do not have internal mics). I have a personal preference of using quality internal mics over using quality external mics.

Hi Jerry, You seem to have a lot of experience with recording accordions. Which internal mic systems have you recorded with, and can you rank them from your favorite on down. When the accordion does not have an internal mic, do you use all six mics or do you choose from the six you own? What is your favorite mic combination for recording a musette accordion? I have a small recording set up at home and I've had the best luck with a Sennheiser MD441 dynamic microphone.

 

[Rosie C]

Very short video edited in Resolve. No fancy mics. No original music. All video and photography by JKJ.

Great video, but I have to admit even watching someone else use a bandsaw gives me the heebeegeebies!

 

[jozz]

one simple placement tip to add:
don't sit in a corner to record