Stradella with chromatic free bass

[danp76]

Is it possible to build a new accordion with stradella and chromatic free bass in a piano accordion? I have older Titano's with quint free bass and stradella, wasn't sure if a new chromatic combined with stradella is possible. Thank you.

 

[Walker]

Absolutely, it is possible to have stradella bass and chromatic free bass on a piano accordion. It's very popular too. You can have B griff, inverted B griff (Russian) and C griff for starters. You could even go for a Kravtsov system on the bass. There is a musician in the Netherlands who plays it (but with Kravtsov both treble and bass) and he thinks it's ace. Alternatively, with a Beltuna Matrix you can have stradella bass, plus quint, plus chromatic - but it does not use traditional mechanics to achieve this.

A couple of examples:

This is free bass inverted B griff



This is free bass C griff

 

[danp76]

Absolutely, it is possible to have stradella bass and chromatic free bass on a piano accordion. It's very popular too. You can have B griff, inverted B griff (Russian) and C griff for starters. You could even go for a Kravtsov system on the bass. There is a gentleman in the Netherlands who plays it (Kravtsov - both treble and bass) and he thinks it's ace. Alternatively, with a Beltuna Matrix you can have stradella bass, plus quint, plus chromatic - but it does not use traditional mechanics to achieve this.

Hi Walker, I'm wondering if this could be done on a smaller, 37/96 bass piano accordion, or is the shell too small for these mechanics? thank you.

 

[Walker]

Yes 37/96 is absolutely possible, no problem.

However, a lot of people who play free bass piano accordion, particularly in the classical sphere, they look to have a certain range of notes on the treble: E to C. If you are seriously into classical it is better to have at least 45 keys. However, there is a lot that can be done with a smaller keyboard with 41 keys especially for slightly lighter music.

I play 41/120 and I am happy with the range. 37 keys is also fine if you know you will not need more than F to F or G to G. To me 37/96 is excellent for folk music. However, if I were choosing an instrument with free bass I would personally prefer a treble range of at least 41 keys.

Still, most of the accordion makers who produce free bass accordions can make instruments in a compact size. All free bass Scandalli's use 19mm keys, and so you could have a 41 key instrument that is more compact than a regular 41 key instrument. Also the likes of Victoria can use 18mm keys, and with that option the overall accordion size of a 41 keys instrument would be similar to a 37/96.

The only other points I would say is that with chromatic free bass, the instrument could be a bit heavier and bulkier as the bass mechanics and extra reeds all add to the weight. Also, learning any completely new system requires a lot of dedication. But that's life. With quint, the bass mechanism is lighter, and adds almost negligible weight or dimensions (depending on manufacturer). But then a quint converter will have less notes. On a 96 bass accordion you will have 3 octaves (36 notes) free bass on quint before changing register. With the chromatic free bass you can have 4 octaves or more. But with a 37 key accordion maybe you don't really want 4 octaves plus of bass notes - we need to consider the overall balance of the instrument, in my opinion.
​

But there is another option...

You could try a button accordion with chromatic converter. What's the worst that could happen? You don't like it and sell it...

It would be compact and have lots of notes on the treble and bass. Doesn't mean you will give up PA. There are lots of great accordionists who play both PA and CBA. It might be an extra string to your bow. A new perspective that enhances appreciation for both systems.

I like C system, as there is a sort of mirror effect on the treble and chromatic free bass notes.

Just an idea.

 

[Ffingers]

The PA keyboard is a convenience for those who 'learned' their music on a clavier, but the chromatic bass is arranged opposite to the clavier keyboard on many instruments.
This I find rather odd.

 

[debra]

The PA keyboard is a convenience for those who 'learned' their music on a clavier, but the chromatic bass is arranged opposite to the clavier keyboard on many instruments.
This I find rather odd.

It's a choice. With B system accordions the bass side is often a mirrored version of the treble side, mostly "in the west", whereas "in the east" the bass side is oriented the same way as on the treble side, meaning the low notes are at the bottom (in the playing orientation). More and more B system players "in the west" have converted to that "Russian" system.
With C system accordions almost everyone uses a mirrored C system melody bass, but I have seen a non-mirrored one once or twice.
While conceptually it is "odd" to use a mirrored lefthand side (compared to how a piano, organ, etc. does not have a mirrored part for the left hand) it is quite useful in practice. Playing the low notes at the bottom is not convenient because your hand is then not in a good position to operate the bellows. For this reason you see non-mirrored B system player often use the Stradella base notes for the lowest octave, as that can be done with the hand in a more convenient position. With a mirrored bass the low notes in melody bass are placed conveniently at the top, and it's just the very highest notes that you don't use often that are at the bottom.

 

[Ffingers]

Thank you, Paul.

 

[Walker]

The piano and button accordions are so fascinating that I can sense I am about to go off topic now...

For me the greatest attribute of the chromatic free bass is that you have up to a 58 note range. As it is arranged chromatically it pairs very well with the button keyboard that has a similar or slightly greater range of notes whilst remaining reasonably compact. However, these are not exactly light weight instruments, but they are very complete.

By comparison the largest piano accordions with chromatic free bass have up to 49 keys (C to C: Zero Sette, D to D: AKKO), though technically 50 or 51 keys is possible without increasing size further. This is large but it's not bayan range (64 notes).

Though the button instrument of 64 notes is undeniably complete, there are some conceivable drawbacks. Namely that these instruments do not readily have 5 voice options. The 5th voice would make the instrument impractical as they would be so bulky. Consequently nobody really makes them aside from the very rare 'one off'. However, it is very common for piano accordions with free bass to have 5 voices.

The additional 5th voice can give some amazing effects: often adding either 32' reed, 8' reed, 4' reed, 2 2/3' reed. It is particularly remarkable with the addition of either a 32' or 2 2/3' reed. The 32' reed option allows interesting combinations like 32'+4' voice. What you effectively have here is the ability to hold a single note whilst at the same time the corresponding note 3 octaves above will sound. Sure the bayanist can stretch 3 octaves, but it would not be reasonable to expect fast passages to be played easily like this. The 32' reed also makes the same maximum bayan treble range possible on a piano accordion.

Interestingly, the 2 2/3 voice is sometimes known as a quint voice (not related to the free bass system) is often applied to piano accordions with free bass. It creates what is known as a 'Cathedral' sound. It can be quite impressive. Here is an interesting piano accordion with a quint voice (standard bass instrument). The voices are explored further into the video.​

Just think, back in the 1940s Dallape made piano accordions with 6 voices including 32' and 2 2/3' voices. Amazing!

 

[debra]

...

The additional 5th voice can give some amazing effects: often adding either 32' reed, 8' reed, 4' reed, 2 2/3' reed. It is particularly remarkable with the addition of either a 32' or 2 2/3' reed. The 32' reed option allows interesting combinations like 32'+4' voice. What you effectively have here is the ability to hold a single note whilst at the same time the corresponding note 3 octaves above will sound. Sure the bayanist can stretch 3 octaves, but it would not be reasonable to expect fast passages to be played easily like this. The 32' reed also makes the same maximum bayan treble range possible on a piano accordion.

Interestingly, the 2 2/3 voice is sometimes known as a quint voice (not related to the free bass system) is often applied to piano accordions with free bass. It creates what is known as a 'Cathedral' sound. It can be quite impressive. Here is an interesting piano accordion with a quint voice (standard bass instrument). ...​

This is a very nice accordion with quint register. Often when I heard an accordion with quint the quint was too powerful to sound like just a "stronger overtone". On this accordion it blends very well with all registers except the piccolo (but with piccolo that's not a surprise).

 

[danp76]

Some great information, thank you guys! I'm unsure if I'd attempt a free bass system, sounds like it would add some weight and bulk to the bass side of the accoridon. I suppose I could use it on stradella, when I didn't want to use the free bass. Those of you that have playes a converter piano accordion, does it add more a lot more bulk in weight to the left side?

 

[Siegmund]

Edit: well, it seems two threads on this topic popped up, and I meant to post this to the other one (about Stradella-only classical music). Ah well...

Funny that this thread would pop to the surface again today. As it happens, I just ran across the Youtube channel of a guy who plays a lot of classical music on Stradella bass: Dmitris Anousis.

He has arrangements of several pieces you don't hear every day on accordion, Stradella or freebass, including the Satie Gymnopedies, de Falla's Ritual Fire Dance, and portions of Saint-Saens's Carnival of the Animals.

He also, curiously, almost never changes registers, and his sheet music (for sale at sheetmusicplus) contains few to no register markings. An unusual, but not unpleasant sound. I gather he's primary a pianist, who also plays piano accordion, and perhaps as a pianist he's more accustomed to exploiting dynamics and RH fingering ability then in accordion-specific mechanical features.

Here are a couple links:

 

[Walker]

@danp76

For illustrative purposes, if you were thinking of a very small free bass (chromatic converter) accordion with 37 keys, the weight is not that bad at just under 12kg for a cassotto instrument:

CONVERTOR P37 CASSOTTO - Pigini Accordions

Model Convertor P37 Cassotto, maintains the qualities and features of the larger more professional instruments.

www.pigini.com

If you go for a very simple 3 voice with no cassotto they are quite light at just under 10kg:

CONVERTOR 37/P3 - Pigini Accordions

Fisarmoniche Accordions Pigini - CONVERTOR 37/P3

www.pigini.com

 

[dak]

The PA keyboard is a convenience for those who 'learned' their music on a clavier, but the chromatic bass is arranged opposite to the clavier keyboard on many instruments.
This I find rather odd.

Well, you can have buttons in a piano keyboard arrangement: