Same problem on FR7, 7X, 8X! Crazy!

[maugein96]

Hi Geronimo,

I never got involved with midi either, and to this day don't really understand how it works.

Mention has been made that climatic conditions may play a part with intermittent faults, and if that is indeed the case then it would appear that they are still a long way away from any semblance of reliability.

Sorry to go off topic, but IMHO this does have a bearing on what we are talking about here.

I well remember having to remove and replace central warning and autopilot systems in aircraft. Some of those would take a good few hours to complete. We had to account for each and every tiny screw and bolt otherwise the aircraft was "grounded" until we found the missing item. The offending component would be returned to the electrical technician "wizards" who claimed to know everything about everything, and they would issue us with a "tried and tested" repacement unit for us to fit.

When everything was finally accounted for the engines on the aircraft would be started up and "ground run", and we all knew there was a real chance that we would have to go through the entire process again when the same fault would show up on a warning panel during that process, or during the subsequent test flight. This process would sometimes need to be repeated until the fault "magically" disappeared. The reality was that during "in flight" conditions any such warning could be over-ridden by the pilots, providing there was no indication of accompanying mechanical malfunction. In other words practical mechanical diagnosis by the pilot took priority over any electrical warning, which could be dismissed by the pilot as "spurious" (during the remainder of that flight only).

Daft thing was, you could take a faulty component out of one aircraft and install it in other where no fault would show up! Obviously we weren't allowed to do that as a final measure, but we did do it on occasion in the hangar when the technical boffins wanted to scratch their heads from a different angle.

I'm talking about the way things were over 40 years ago, and nothing much seems to have improved with regard to the reliability of electrical and electronic circuitry since, regardless of any technical advancement. That's one of the reasons why I don't want to buy a digital accordion at the moment, and I'm getting older by the day!

 

[Geronimo]

Im talking about the way things were over 40 years ago, and nothing much seems to have improved with regard to the reliability of electrical and electronic circuitry since, regardless of any technical advancement. Thats one of the reasons why I dont want to buy a digital accordion at the moment, and Im getting older by the day!

Well, to be fair, the same is the case with mechanical accordions. The saving grace just tends to be that small faults tend to lead to localized problems rather than a complete breakdown, and even a complete breakdown tends to lend itself to diagnosis (like multiple wrong reeds sounding because of a warped reed block base or filling).

A live and dead digital accordion may look perfectly identical on out- and inside. For a mechanical one, that would be kind of unusual. When a digital is good, it is very very good, but when it is bad, it is horrid. Ok, not really. The digital is not really ever very, very good but its pretty good for a whole lot more use cases than any acoustic one.

 

[maugein96]

I first became interested when I heard Samuel Garcia doing a Roland demo for Sudclaviers in France.

The sounds he was getting out of a little Roland frx1b were amazing, and I loved the idea that you could play it through headphones. There is little doubt that is one very versatile little machine, once you learn how to use it.

I wouldn't say I'd never buy one, and if my acoustic boxes ever get to the stage where they start getting too heavy then I might consider it. We're currently considering downsizing to a smaller house or apartment, as our current house has too many stairs, and I might just get away with convincing my wife that I need one so that I can play through the headphones. She never has been a fan of listening to anything I play. The other thing is I've always wanted to try out a B system box, but didn't want to lay out the cost of even a cheap one, in case I couldn't manage it. I could therefore switch between C and B systems as required.

If only they could finally sort out some of the basic foibles then I might consider getting my wallet out

 

[Geronimo]

The sounds he was getting out of a little Roland frx1b were amazing, and I loved the idea that you could play it through headphones. There is little doubt that is one very versatile little machine, once you learn how to use it.
[...]
If only they could finally sort out some of the basic foibles then I might consider getting my wallet out

I was of the impression that the FR-1xb was not afflicted in similar manners as the accordions discussed here. At least one does not hear a lot here. My own FR-1b (predecessor model without its own speakers, so the lightest of the lot) does not have all that many quirks. The most irritating one so far was that when you use the transpose function (with the small keyboard, often convenient in order to shift in multiples of minor thirds), the transposition is applied twice to the Midi when using organ sounds (I think the sound itself is as expected if I remember correctly). Not exactly great for layering sounds with an external Midi expander.

And for the non-x FR-1b, bellows action just isnt representative of an acoustic instrument, so there is mixed discoverability of nice phrasing approaches: either it hits you in the face when using orchestral patches (yes, that can put you on a good track). Or it doesnt. Turns out I do not practice all that much with the FR-1b, part of the reason being its limited bass side.

 

[maugein96]

I wasn't aware that there was a difference in reliability between the various models, as I've never really studied them in any detail.

That 72 bass is a bit limiting and was another reason why I never bought one on impulse. I understand that the limited range on the treble side can be overcome by using some sort of octave "shifter", but I don't know how that would work if you wanted to change octaves during a tune.

I just couldn't convince myself that such a small instrument was worthwhile, and there is a big price jump to the bigger models. There is now a Roland dealer about 90km from me so I might go and try one out at some point. A former work colleague of mine plays one of the bigger Roland CBAs (don't know which model) professionally, but he also takes his acoustic with midi Paolo Soprani CBA with him as a "back-up". I do believe he has had problems with sticking bass notes during performances, but I haven't seen him for some years now.

The bellows seems to be another issue that takes a bit of getting used to, but I suppose everything can be overcome if you put your mind to it.

 

[Waldo]

It's possible the fuses are breaking down internally. This would depend on the construction of the fuse. A common design consists of a small diameter wire encased in a protective cover. Many years ago, I had an intermittent on/off problem with the headlights on my Jeep. After replacing everything, it turned out to be the glass tube fuse, a 10 cent part, back then. The fuse element had broken and the two ends were still making contact. When I drove it, road shocks would cause the element to move, making and breaking the circuit. Other designs would also be susceptible to internal breakage. If you still have the old fuse you could test for this. Another possibility is corrosion with-in the fuse body. Corrosion raises resistance to electrical flow, changing voltage and resistance values. You could test for this, too.

Lastly, the first place to look with faulty electrical circuits is the grounds [earths]. A bad ground circuit can manifest itself anywhere in the circuits that depend on that ground, resulting in erroneous diagnosis' and persistent problems. Bad grounds are often intermittent, as well.

Just some ideas, wrought from experience.

Press on...
Waldo