Roland FR-4X - no aftertouch, an issue?
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Ventura
Been here for ages!
Acoustic accordions have no aftertouch, so why would it be a problem ?
and
the FR3 has no aftertouch, the FR4 is built on the FR3 platform
the FR7 series does have aftertouch.. the "false bottom" of the keyboard
is somewhat unsettling and very unnatural for experienced accordion players,
but most of us have gotten used to it being there
personally, i avoid using it as i fear the "bottom" will weaken with use and age and cause
problems eventually for playing normally
and
the FR3 has no aftertouch, the FR4 is built on the FR3 platform
the FR7 series does have aftertouch.. the "false bottom" of the keyboard
is somewhat unsettling and very unnatural for experienced accordion players,
but most of us have gotten used to it being there
personally, i avoid using it as i fear the "bottom" will weaken with use and age and cause
problems eventually for playing normally
Thanks.
I was thinking more along the lines of playing other lead instruments via MIDI not just accordion parts. I am coming back to the accordion after about 35 years, having learned it along with music theory for about nine years as a child. I have been using pianos and synths widely in the interim and have found after-touch to be quite a useful tool.
I was thinking more along the lines of playing other lead instruments via MIDI not just accordion parts. I am coming back to the accordion after about 35 years, having learned it along with music theory for about nine years as a child. I have been using pianos and synths widely in the interim and have found after-touch to be quite a useful tool.
Ventura
Been here for ages!
yes, aftertouch can be useful
Synth keyboards take pretty good pressure for Aftertouch, and it
doesn't feel weird and works pretty well, but the Roland Accordion
aftertouch has a feel like it bottoms, then slips a cog to get to aftertouch,
and it doesn't take much to slip past the "spot" and then the physical distance
to the true bottom of key travel is quite noticeably different
the fr3 and 4 are nice as MIDI controllers, but there is one more "gotcha"
in that bellows control midi messages are a rather incredibly dense stream
of data, and sometimes we need to adjust data output settings so as not to
overload what you are talking to
good luck with the tryout.. turn the volume up higher than you think it should be
at first so you avoid the stiff-bellows sore arm (until you get used to it)
and have some fun !
Synth keyboards take pretty good pressure for Aftertouch, and it
doesn't feel weird and works pretty well, but the Roland Accordion
aftertouch has a feel like it bottoms, then slips a cog to get to aftertouch,
and it doesn't take much to slip past the "spot" and then the physical distance
to the true bottom of key travel is quite noticeably different
the fr3 and 4 are nice as MIDI controllers, but there is one more "gotcha"
in that bellows control midi messages are a rather incredibly dense stream
of data, and sometimes we need to adjust data output settings so as not to
overload what you are talking to
good luck with the tryout.. turn the volume up higher than you think it should be
at first so you avoid the stiff-bellows sore arm (until you get used to it)
and have some fun !
Alan Sharkis
Prolific poster
I must have said this before, but the Event Processor and Event Processor Plus from MIDI Solutions, Inc., are devices that fit into the midi daisy-chain, are powered by that daisy-chain and can be programmed to filter out all those messages from the bellows, among other things, and those programs are saved in non-volatile memory forever until changed or deleted. In addition, there are apps that run under Windows, MacOS, and also for the iPad that can do the same thing. I just don’t remember the names of those apps.
For the benefit of the peasants on here (me), could someone explain what aftertouch is? 
Direct from the Roland 8X manual:
“Aftertouch refers to the fact that you press a key even further down after playing a note. This effect allows you to bend the pitch down (temporarily lower the note) by a quarter tone (“1/4 Down”) or a semi-tone (“1/2 Down”). Select “1/4 Up” or “1/2 Up” to bend the notes up a quarter or a semi-tone."
John M.
“Aftertouch refers to the fact that you press a key even further down after playing a note. This effect allows you to bend the pitch down (temporarily lower the note) by a quarter tone (“1/4 Down”) or a semi-tone (“1/2 Down”). Select “1/4 Up” or “1/2 Up” to bend the notes up a quarter or a semi-tone."
John M.
Ventura
Been here for ages!
ahh... well synths at first had joysticks you could grab to mess around
with pitch or timber or any other MIDI parameter that can affect sound in real time
(as opposed to pre-programming the sound)
then they thought up other ways to access those parameters physically..
some keyboards and organs in particular had touch strips mounted 90 degrees
so you could slide your fingertips to the back of the keys (making contact)
and then they tried adding small variable resistor pad carbon traces under the Synth keys
that would show high resistance untouched, but when you pressed down hard on
the key(s) would swing quickly toward zero resistance, thereby triggering a circuit
(which could be routed like the Joystick to any MIDI message)
FR7/8 Roland players, for example, often use the aftertouch to "trigger" the Leslie
Speaker effect on Organ voices between "Fast" and "slow"
this became easy to incorporate in manufacturing once the entire keybed
essentially became a printed circuitboard (as opposed to wires, Hall switches, etc.)
Synths and digital Pianos today have a pair of little "tophat" looking rubbery things
that sit above round circuitboard traces that look like mini laybrinths, and when
you press, the tophats squish and make contact.
the timing between tophat 1 and tophat 2 gives the "delta" vector which
the microprocessor analyses to give you your "velocity" which is used
to appropriately trigger the tone you are using
with pitch or timber or any other MIDI parameter that can affect sound in real time
(as opposed to pre-programming the sound)
then they thought up other ways to access those parameters physically..
some keyboards and organs in particular had touch strips mounted 90 degrees
so you could slide your fingertips to the back of the keys (making contact)
and then they tried adding small variable resistor pad carbon traces under the Synth keys
that would show high resistance untouched, but when you pressed down hard on
the key(s) would swing quickly toward zero resistance, thereby triggering a circuit
(which could be routed like the Joystick to any MIDI message)
FR7/8 Roland players, for example, often use the aftertouch to "trigger" the Leslie
Speaker effect on Organ voices between "Fast" and "slow"
this became easy to incorporate in manufacturing once the entire keybed
essentially became a printed circuitboard (as opposed to wires, Hall switches, etc.)
Synths and digital Pianos today have a pair of little "tophat" looking rubbery things
that sit above round circuitboard traces that look like mini laybrinths, and when
you press, the tophats squish and make contact.
the timing between tophat 1 and tophat 2 gives the "delta" vector which
the microprocessor analyses to give you your "velocity" which is used
to appropriately trigger the tone you are using
After-touch is essentially a MIDI CC controller, and most if not all devices allow the user to assign pretty much any CC command to it...be it modulation, pitch bend, data bytes, etc etc. Very useful when you do not have the left hand available (playing left hand bass on a keyboard or with an accordion) to make these dynamic changes to the sound.
Some of the effects of after touch are things like being able to use options like note bending and using that "option" as an off/on switch, such as to change the vibrato level, both with nothing more than a little extra pressure on the keyboard. Never thought I would like or need it, but the reality is that I surprisingly use it quite often, in like 15% of all my music which is huge.
If I lost the 8X to an accordion that did not have it, I'd really miss it.
If I lost the 8X to an accordion that did not have it, I'd really miss it.
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